Need to take a hard look at Sano.

[D.C Twins]

This is a complex topic with no clear right answer at this point. Yes, we need a bigger sample size

 

BUT, I do think that if his current plate discipline continues, elite pitching in the playoffs will chew him up and spit him out (and potentially end crucial rallies).

[Nine of twelve]

The ceiling is too high to give up for another year or two. He is 26 years old so he has a lot of prime time still ahead of him. He appears to be beyond the health issues that have plagued him over the last couple years. Trading him now or even in the next year means we'd be getting minimum return. It's in our best interest to let it ride and give him time.

[Riverbrian]

 

This is a complex topic with no clear right answer at this point. Yes, we need a bigger sample size

 

BUT, I do think that if his current plate discipline continues, elite pitching in the playoffs will chew him up and spit him out (and potentially end crucial rallies).

 

IF... BUT

 

By the time the playoffs arrive... the team will know if he will be chewed up and spit out based upon the larger sample size to come. 

 

I'm not sure what is happening but we have the best record in baseball yet the opinion is Sano is "Garbage" and another guy is "praying" for the swift removal of Astudillo. 

 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

Who would you have us trade for pitching?

 

That's the GM's call, Now, in years past, when other teams are adding talent for the stretch drive. They typically don't have to give up major league talent to acquire it. 

 

 

[james2334]

I don't really know how much improvement we are going to see in the future from Sano. I think this might be who he is as a hitter and I'm OK with it. As long as he keeps taking walks, he has 7 of them, and keeps getting an extra base hit about every 5th at bat, his production is enough to offset the 33% strikeout rate. Sure some of the strike outs have looked ugly, but I can probably find some ugly strike outs for every hitter on the team. (Maybe not Polanco that dude has been awesome). I'm not saying I want an entire line up filled with hitters that have Sano's profile, but I like having one or two hitters like that because they can win a game with one swing.

 

As far as elite pitching in the playoffs. We'll have to see when we get there. The elite pitchers win most of the battles with whoever is hitting, however, they make mistakes sometimes, and if they make a mistake to Sano he's probably not going to settle for a single.

 

 

[twinssporto]

 

At the start of todays game Sano is hitting a putrid .209 and has looked like absolute garbage at the plate.

He is still continually chasing the low pitches and frankly I dont see that changing. With Cruz and Garver coming back I think we will have plenty of firepower and wont miss his whopping 5 homeruns.

With the trade deadline starting to creep up I think it is time to turn the page and dump him.

I'll take his paltry 5 homers in 12 games any day.  Love the ratio.  Other ratios not so hot...but let's give the young man another couple of months.  I was not thrilled with him last year when he came to camp out of shape and overweight.  I was calling for his head then.  

 

I think he might have matured a lot the last 12 months.  I'm looking forward to seeing what happens.

[Vanimal46]

He doesn't have the same ceiling we were dreaming about in 2015... Too much has happened on and off the field for him since then. He's closer to Mark Reynolds than Frank Robinson or whatever absurd comp he had as a 22 year old.

 

I hope he proves me wrong and he stops check swinging at sliders low and away for strike 3... Luckily all he has to do now is be the 6th/7th best guy in the lineup instead of being the star.

[Doomtints]

He has a .963 OPS and a 148 OPS+. Who cares about his batting average....

[mnfireman]

The word silly comes to mind when I think of Sano. He either looks silly or makes the pitcher look silly, doesn't seem to be an in between. I think more plate appearances should help that, but I can't help but think of something I heard Morneau say in one of his booth appearances with Dick. It went something along the line of being a run producer is not just about HR's, its about getting them in any way you can. A single with runners on second and third gets more runs in than a strikeout does, as does a fly ball with a runner on third. Discipline and maturity come as much with PA's as it does with age, and he has missed a lot of time the last few seasons. Lets see how he develops this year with Cruz and Gonzales around in addition to Rowson's coaching. 

[amjgt]

Yeah he isn't living up to expectations AGAIN. Guy has no plate discipline whatsover. You might be right.

Today it wasn’t even a discipline thing, he was just straight up whiffing on pitches near the center of the strike zone.

[stringer bell]

A little shameless self-promotion. When Cruz was sidelined, I wrote a blog entry about Sano http://twinsdaily.com/blog/449-stringer-bells-blog/

 

Now let me say that I certainly agree with everyone that says that fifty-some plate appearances is too small of a sample to be definitive of how Sanó's season will go. An OPS over .950 is more than fine. 

 

Perhaps many of us aren't fair to Miguel because he was hyped as the next Miguel Cabrera or Frank Thomas. Comparing Sanó to Mark Reynolds essentially says that the hype was falsehood. To complicate this, we have seen glimpses of a complete hitter, but he seemed more patient and disciplined as a rookie than he does now. He seems to be able to be pitched to, but someone who will hammer a mistake pitch.

 

A 10.5 game lead and a record-setting offense provide the Twins with a chance to bat him lower in the order and live with the strikeouts. Sadly, I believe the guy who was billed as a future superstar could be downgraded to someone who might not be part of the team's future.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

A little shameless self-promotion. When Cruz was sidelined, I wrote a blog entry about Sano http://twinsdaily.com/blog/449-stringer-bells-blog/

 

Now let me say that I certainly agree with everyone that says that fifty-some plate appearances is too small of a sample to be definitive of how Sanó's season will go. An OPS over .950 is more than fine. 

 

Perhaps many of us aren't fair to Miguel because he was hyped as the next Miguel Cabrera or Frank Thomas. Comparing Sanó to Mark Reynolds essentially says that the hype was falsehood. To complicate this, we have seen glimpses of a complete hitter, but he seemed more patient and disciplined as a rookie than he does now. He seems to be able to be pitched to, but someone who will hammer a mistake pitch.

 

A 10.5 game lead and a record-setting offense provide the Twins with a chance to bat him lower in the order and live with the strikeouts. Sadly, I believe the guy who was billed as a future superstar could be downgraded to someone who might not be part of the team's future.

This is a very fair take and while I'm not quite sold on the "could be downgraded to not part of the team's future", it's not really off-base, either.

 

Sano could be a powerhouse. As it stands, he's Adam Dunn lite. Sure, in today's game, he can be a quasi Dunn but his K rate is astronomical and his walk rate isn't Dunn-like.

 

He needs to either drop the K rate or raise the walk rate. That would make him Adam Dunn. If he does both, he could be great.

[psturnbloom]

 

Sano has just 42 ABs this season so far. 42. Let's chill and give him some time before bringing out the pitchforks.

Agreed. Similar noises had been made about Gonzalez and Castro at the end of April, and they've both turned around well.

[Riverbrian]

 

A little shameless self-promotion. When Cruz was sidelined, I wrote a blog entry about Sano http://twinsdaily.com/blog/449-stringer-bells-blog/

 

Now let me say that I certainly agree with everyone that says that fifty-some plate appearances is too small of a sample to be definitive of how Sanó's season will go. An OPS over .950 is more than fine. 

 

Perhaps many of us aren't fair to Miguel because he was hyped as the next Miguel Cabrera or Frank Thomas. Comparing Sanó to Mark Reynolds essentially says that the hype was falsehood. To complicate this, we have seen glimpses of a complete hitter, but he seemed more patient and disciplined as a rookie than he does now. He seems to be able to be pitched to, but someone who will hammer a mistake pitch.

 

A 10.5 game lead and a record-setting offense provide the Twins with a chance to bat him lower in the order and live with the strikeouts. Sadly, I believe the guy who was billed as a future superstar could be downgraded to someone who might not be part of the team's future.

 

Last Summer, Fall and during the off-season. I frequently posted a thought about Buxton and Sano and I got beat up each time I posted it.

 

All I did was ask all the Twinsdaily readers to think of Buxton and Sano as members of the team instead of the saviors of the universe. 

 

There were a few who agreed with me but the majority did not. They were quick to tell me in no uncertain terms that the team was going nowhere without Buxton and Sano leading the way. 

 

I believe the front office even let a quote slip that they were not going "all in" until Buxton and Sano were ready. 

 

This team... Right here... Right Now... is what I was talking about as I took the punches.

 

25 players who can play and contribute with Buxton and Sano as simply members of that team. They don't have to lead but they do have to contribute. 

 

Now imagine this team... right here.. right now...  and imagine Sano and Buxton delivering what they were promised to deliver. They haven't yet I understand but imagine if they do with this team around them.  

 

We have years of control to develop them.You don't trade it, you develop it and if it doesn't develop... we got 23 other players to help us survive it.

 

Can we just let them be members of the team for the time being without being called garbage while we have the best record in baseball.     

 

 

[Old Twins Cap]

Only thing I see is that Sano swings and misses on a lot of balls in the zone that most MLB hitters get their stick on.

 

Three pitches, all the same, sliders in the zone, and no contact.

 

Next time up he doubles off the wall in right.

 

Hard to figure.

[TheLeviathan]

In honor of this thread I'd like to propose we also consider the following:

 

Buxton has been caught stealing three times.  Cut him.

 

Garver's first name is Mitch.  We shouldn't trust him.

 

Our second baseman's name clearly rhymes with "poop", what's he hiding with the weird pronunciation?

[drivlikejehu]

 

This is a very fair take and while I'm not quite sold on the "could be downgraded to not part of the team's future", it's not really off-base, either.

 

Sano could be a powerhouse. As it stands, he's Adam Dunn lite. Sure, in today's game, he can be a quasi Dunn but his K rate is astronomical and his walk rate isn't Dunn-like.

 

He needs to either drop the K rate or raise the walk rate. That would make him Adam Dunn. If he does both, he could be great.

 

While his overall production has been disappointing, Sano's career to date has also been beset by injuries. He doesn't have an MLB season with 500 plate appearances. 

 

Given his track record and age, at this point I think the Twins will keep him through the years of team control and let him hit free agency at age 29. High strikeout guys tend not to age very well. But in the meantime, he's a starting-caliber player, not the star many hoped for, but still something. 

[jimbo92107]

Let us chill re Sano, and revisit this topic in about a month, say, late June. By then, if Sano is going to come around, he'll be looking pretty good. My own guess is that Sano will be acclimated to MLB pitching by then, and he will be hitting ballistic missiles over colorful fences. Right now I believe Sano is processing information about what pitchers are doing to get him out, and gradually formulating a strategy to counter their efforts. He is taking more walks, swinging at fewer pitches, with mixed results. Sometimes that looks passive, but don't be fooled. He is learning. 

 

It is already far too late for Miguel Sano to make the All Star team, but there's a fair chance he could still have a massive second half this season. He couldn't pick a better environment to nurture his progress. He is surrounded by other power hitters and team leaders. 

[kenbuddha]

 

I think more plate appearances should help that, but I can't help but think of something I heard Morneau say in one of his booth appearances with Dick. It went something along the line of being a run producer is not just about HR's, its about getting them in any way you can. A single with runners on second and third gets more runs in than a strikeout does, as does a fly ball with a runner on third. Discipline and maturity come as much with PA's as it does with age, and he has missed a lot of time the last few seasons.

So far he has a 1.114 OPS with runners in scoring position. What more do you want?

[DiscGolfer]

It's funny to me that over the years here posters haven't wanted to see certain players let go because they could turn into the next David Ortiz situation. Oswaldo Arcia, Kennys Vargas, Byung Ho Park.  And where are those guys now?  But now we actually have the closest thing that could resemble Ortiz and so many posters now what to see him go.  I don't understand it.  

[ashbury]

It's funny to me that over the years here posters haven't wanted to see certain players let go because they could turn into the next David Ortiz situation. Oswaldo Arcia, Kennys Vargas, Byung Ho Park.  And where are those guys now?  But now we actually have the closest thing that could resemble Ortiz and so many posters now what to see him go.  I don't understand it.  

Not the same posters each time?

[DiscGolfer]

 

Not the same posters each time?

 

I don't think it's been the same posters every time, too many threads to go back and check everything, but the discussion has come up from time to time.

[AlwaysinModeration]

Four things:

 

1. Who hits more homers this year, Buxton (6) or Sano (5)? (I know the answer to this question, but it reminds me of the year Rosario out-homered Sano in the minors—that seemed like a fluke, but maybe it wasn’t so flukey after all?)

 

2. Actually, Sano has 6 homers. Just as we should ignore the Thursday game entirely, let’s just count Sano’s homer/not homer.

 

3. Wasn’t Sano supposed to be in great shape? Seems like he isn’t really that svelte right now.

 

4. The conclusion I draw from this discussion and watching Sano play for these couple of weeks is a bit different from what seems to be brought up so far: He’s hitting quite well DESPITE only getting ~50 plate appearances and not really getting into the groove. He doesn’t seem that confident at the plate yet to me right now. It seems to me that if really warms up—watch out! It also occurs to me that he hasn’t really gotten to spend much time around Nelson Cruz yet, and I still think that is going to have a positive impact on him.

[yarnivek1972]

It's funny to me that over the years here posters haven't wanted to see certain players let go because they could turn into the next David Ortiz situation. Oswaldo Arcia, Kennys Vargas, Bung Ho Park. And where are those guys now? But now we actually have the closest thing that could resemble Ortiz and so many posters now what to see him go. I don't understand it.

As a Twin Ortiz had a K rate under 20%. Sano’s is nearly double that.

 

Can the Twins “win” without him being the generational type he was hyped to be? Possibly. But it should be noted that the FO brought in 3 big sluggers this offseason. That may not always be possible. And, if the Twins are spending more on offense it means that they have less to spend on pitching.

[bird]

 

Only thing I see is that Sano swings and misses on a lot of balls in the zone that most MLB hitters get their stick on.

 

Three pitches, all the same, sliders in the zone, and no contact.

 

Next time up he doubles off the wall in right.

 

Hard to figure.

 

 

Yeah, I suppose you also see the good stuff like me, but I can't help myself from cringing a little bit at the bad stuff. In particular, flailing at three 89MPH pitches in the zone, seemingly not having the wrist strength to check his swing on pitches a foot off the plate, giving me a sense that he's maybe walking up to the plate without having an intelligent approach against that particular pitcher. It's kind of an assault on my aesthetics at times.

 

But then... 

 

I was one of those who believed this team was going nowhere unless BOTH Buxton and Sano gave us good (not special) years, and I still think that, especially come postseason. Sano hopefully can adjust and improve just a bit. Give us one less K every other game and replace it with an out that has their guy feeling for the wall on the warning track instead. That extra batted ball out, that tough out, I think changes the psyche of the opponents' pitching staff in our favor.

 

Maybe he and Cruz will have more simultaneous time being healthy and in the lineup together?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Four things:

 

1. Who hits more homers this year, Buxton (6) or Sano (5)? (I know the answer to this question, but it reminds me of the year Rosario out-homered Sano in the minors—that seemed like a fluke, but maybe it wasn’t so flukey after all?)

 

2. Actually, Sano has 6 homers. Just as we should ignore the Thursday game entirely, let’s just count Sano’s homer/not homer.

 

3. Wasn’t Sano supposed to be in great shape? Seems like he isn’t really that svelte right now.

 

4. The conclusion I draw from this discussion and watching Sano play for these couple of weeks is a bit different from what seems to be brought up so far: He’s hitting quite well DESPITE only getting ~50 plate appearances and not really getting into the groove. He doesn’t seem that confident at the plate yet to me right now. It seems to me that if really warms up—watch out! It also occurs to me that he hasn’t really gotten to spend much time around Nelson Cruz yet, and I still think that is going to have a positive impact on him.

I’m with you. He’s had 50 plate appearances and he kills it when he hits it. I think Sano can be a productive hitter with a high K rate, if he can improve his selection. That Bb rate needs to improve if the K rate doesn’t.

 

I think it’s possible and the only way to find out is to give him more plate appearances.

 

That being said, for the right package of prospects/players no one is off the table

[ewen21]

 

Who would you have us trade for pitching?

Precisely.  Where are we going to get starting pitching from?  These are the kinds of hard decisions that need to get made sometimes.  Do I know for sure we should trade Sano for starting pitching?  No, but why is the notion that we ought to consider it so far off base?  Unless one is of the belief that we never should trade any of our guys for starting pitching.

 

Well.....we honestly never have and how has that worked out?

[Riverbrian]

 

Precisely.  Where are we going to get starting pitching from? 

 

These are the kinds of hard decisions that need to get made sometimes. 

 

Do I know for sure we should trade Sano for starting pitching?  No, but why is the notion that we ought to consider it so far off base? 

 

Unless one is of the belief that we never should trade any of our guys for starting pitching.

 

Well.....we honestly never have and how has that worked out?

 

Precisely?

 

Why do we have to trade major league talent for major league talent when the overwhelming majority of trade deadline deals involve prospects for Major League Talent?

 

Sano isn't a free agent until 2022 and he has an option remaining. Is this really a "Hard Decision" that must be made sometimes? 

 

I believe the front office should always give full consideration to anyone being traded. I primarily hope that they consider... current value, potential value, years of control, options remaining and contract obligations and then consider... the current value, potential value, years of control, options remaining and contract obligations of anyone they get back while assessing the timing of any consideration. 

 

Why not trade Polanco for starting pitching and get a special starting pitcher in return? 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Precisely.  Where are we going to get starting pitching from?  These are the kinds of hard decisions that need to get made sometimes.  Do I know for sure we should trade Sano for starting pitching?  No, but why is the notion that we ought to consider it so far off base?  Unless one is of the belief that we never should trade any of our guys for starting pitching.

 

Well.....we honestly never have and how has that worked out?

 

Teams offering up an ace starter or reliver won't be asking for a guy like Sano. They will want prospects.

[Linus]

I’ve been concerned about Sano for a long time mainly because he hasn’t been the same hitter we saw his rookie year for a long while. His plate discipline is gone and he can’t catch up to a good fastball or layoff breaking pitches away. He will run into a cookie once in a while but he has to take a hard look at himself