Article: Dave St. Peter on Expectations, Attendance and Concessions

[nicksaviking]

 

Agreed, but they seem to be approaching ludicrous speed proportions these days.

 

Well if they're not paid $15 an hour, how could they afford to eat one of the hot dogs marked up 800% that their selling?

 

Scratch that, a $15 an hour job ain't going to afford them the money to attend a game.

 

This was the first opening day since I was legal drinking age that I didn't have a beer. I'm not waiting in line for ten minutes for a Bud Light and I'm repulsed by the prices of decent beer. Thankfully Berrios was great and got us out of the stadium in under 3 hours so as I could pay Fulton a more reasonable price for better quality beer afterwards. As much as it might surprise St. Peter, I don't go to baseball games for the restaurants and concessions. 

[nicksaviking]

 

I know a year or two ago the Atlanta Falcons lowered all of their concession prices.  I don't have the exact dollar amounts but a hot dog was roughly $3 and beers were $5.  I havent seen anything if they had a boost in revenue from that or not.  It would be interesting to see some data on that.

 

It was for their brand new stadium too. Just opened and they dropped food and beverages across the board. The must be doing OK, they are lowering the prices again for the upcoming season, hot dogs are only a buck fifty now:

 

https://mercedesbenzstadium.com/mercedes-benz-stadium-cuts-food-prices-second-time/

 

I'd be nice if someone would ask St Peter about that.

[Steve Lein]

 

I know a year or two ago the Atlanta Falcons lowered all of their concession prices.  I don't have the exact dollar amounts but a hot dog was roughly $3 and beers were $5.  I havent seen anything if they had a boost in revenue from that or not.  It would be interesting to see some data on that.

 

I would expect you could find even more data on this somewhere, but this was a quick article I looked at: https://www.atlantafalcons.com/news/mercedes-benz-stadium-to-cut-concession-stand-prices-on-popular-items-by-12-perc

 

"During the 2017 Falcons and Atlanta United seasons, average spending on concessions increased at Falcons games by 16 percent per person over the previous season, despite a 50 percent decrease in pricing over the previous season. Data also showed that more than 6,000 Falcons fan per game entered the stadium as much as an hour earlier to take advantage of the options and pricing in the stadium."

[wsnydes]

 

Well if they're not paid $15 an hour, how could they afford to eat one of the hot dogs marked up 800% that their selling?

 

Scratch that, a $15 an hour job ain't going to afford them the money to attend a game.

 

This was the first opening day since I was legal drinking age that I didn't have a beer. I'm not waiting in line for ten minutes for a Bud Light and I'm repulsed by the prices of decent beer. Thankfully Berrios was great and got us out of the stadium in under 3 hours so as I could pay Fulton a more reasonable price for better quality beer afterwards. As much as it might surprise St. Peter, I don't go to baseball games for the restaurants and concessions. 

Exactly. I don't go to a ball game for the restaurants or the newly added strip mall in RF. I have this weird desire to watch a baseball game, keep score when it interests me and maybe munch on some seeds but only if I brought them in with me.

[wsnydes]

 

I would expect you could find even more data on this somewhere, but this was a quick article I looked at: https://www.atlantafalcons.com/news/mercedes-benz-stadium-to-cut-concession-stand-prices-on-popular-items-by-12-perc

 

"During the 2017 Falcons and Atlanta United seasons, average spending on concessions increased at Falcons games by 16 percent per person over the previous season, despite a 50 percent decrease in pricing over the previous season. Data also showed that more than 6,000 Falcons fan per game entered the stadium as much as an hour earlier to take advantage of the options and pricing in the stadium."

This used to be me. I still like to get to the park early and watch BP when I can, but I used to grab some food and a beverage while I sat there. And then there were plenty of times when I'd go back and get more food and/or beverage. 

 

Like someone upthread said, I'd really like to hear DSP respond to a question about this info.

[nicksaviking]

 

I would expect you could find even more data on this somewhere, but this was a quick article I looked at: https://www.atlantafalcons.com/news/mercedes-benz-stadium-to-cut-concession-stand-prices-on-popular-items-by-12-perc

 

"During the 2017 Falcons and Atlanta United seasons, average spending on concessions increased at Falcons games by 16 percent per person over the previous season, despite a 50 percent decrease in pricing over the previous season. Data also showed that more than 6,000 Falcons fan per game entered the stadium as much as an hour earlier to take advantage of the options and pricing in the stadium."

 

Which does bring up an interesting angle; the nearby restaurants and bars surely want the stadium to keep their prices high. 

 

While the Twins do offer some interesting options, most of it isn't exactly high cuisine stuff. It's not like you can't get a better qualify burger, sandwich or beer at two dozen places within three blocks of the stadium.

 

So surely the Twins are only marking prices up to help promote the local businesses. Which one is the eye-roll emoji again?

[John Miller]

I was on a strict word count for this article, a lot of things I could have expanded on. Here are a few:

 

St. Peter is on the scheduling committee for next year. He doesn't like starting at home, but he also isn't a fan of having a long road trip to start the year either. Next year the Twins are starting on the road.

 

When it comes to prices of beer, it was clear that he knows fans will pay up for booze regardless of how much it costs. I took his response as a take or leave it kind of thing now that they have two sections of cheaper beer. It still doesn't make sense why Bud Light is cheaper than other beers like Budweiser or a Mich Golden. 

 

He also made fun of the "This is How We Baseball" slogan from last year.

 

Overall, he thinks baseball needs to do a much better job of marketing its bigger stars.

 

He's probably as upfront as I have ever heard somebody be in an interview.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Miller1234

[nicksaviking]

 

I was on a strict word count for this article, a lot of things I could have expanded on.

 

St. Peter is on the scheduling committee for next year. He doesn't like starting at home, but he also isn't a fan of having a long road trip to start the year either. Next year the Twins are starting on the road.

 

When it comes to prices of beer, it was clear that he knows fans will pay up for booze regardless of how much it costs. I took his response as a take or leave it kind of thing now that they have two sections of cheaper beer. It still doesn't make sense why Bud Light is cheaper than other beers like Budweiser or a Mich Golden. 

 

He also made fun of the "This is How We Baseball" slogan from last year.

 

Overall, he thinks baseball needs to do a much better job of marketing its bigger stars.

 

He's probably as upfront as I have ever heard somebody be in an interview.

 

Great submission to TD by the way. I hope it goes without saying that criticisms found in the comment section aren't aimed at the interviewer.

[John Miller]

 

Great submission to TD by the way. I hope it goes without saying that criticisms found in the comment section aren't aimed at the interviewer.

 

Thank you for the kind words. I didn't take any of the comments as criticisms towards me. I just wanted to elaborate on a few things. If anybody has any other questions I would be happy to answer. 

[RatherBeGolfing]

Pretty bad attempt at being a PR shill by DSP here.

[SenatorsGuy]

Its been my opinion for a long time that DSP is content marketing and appealing to casual baseball fans and non-baseball fans. I think he believes that serious baseball fans will always show up. 

The lack of a quality product on the field (at times even insulting), ridiculous concession prices and a pinball-like circus atmosphere between innings is more than enough to keep a lot of serious fans away. 

 

Going to games becomes a serious investment of time and money. And frankly, a lot of fans are tired about being more serious than the Twins and DSP.

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

 You'd think that there has to be a breaking point somewhere. I doubt that I'm the only one that won't buy anything, but I do know that I'm in the minority.

 

Right now the MLB demographic is old (45+), white, and male.  They're the only segment of hte population with money to burning, which is why we havne't seen the breaking point.  

 

Yet.  Because the people they need to replace those old white dudes are turning to other places because of the cost and a variety of other issues with baseball.  At least that's my theory.

[USAFChief]

 

Its been my opinion for a long time that DSP is content marketing and appealing to casual baseball fans and non-baseball fans. I think he believes that serious baseball fans will always show up. 

The lack of a quality product on the field (at times even insulting), ridiculous concession prices and a pinball-like circus atmosphere between innings is more than enough to keep a lot of serious fans away. 

 

Going to games becomes a serious investment of time and money. And frankly, a lot of fans are tired about being more serious than the Twins and DSP.

 

While I agree the cost of attending an MLB game is high, if you plan on eating there, it can be argued this hasn't had much effect on total attendance. Ticket prices, if you stay out of the high dollar areas, are often relative bargains compaired to other major sports. You can't get near an NFL game for the cost of a mid range MLB ticket.

 

Total MLB attendance is virtually unchanged over the last 20 years, since 1998.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2018/10/03/how-mlb-attendance-dropped-below-70-million-for-first-time-in-15-years/#5aa824dc61bf

 

It is true there has been a significant drop since peaking in 2007.

 

I do concur DSP shouldn't speak publicly.

[wsnydes]

 

Right now the MLB demographic is old (45+), white, and male.  They're the only segment of hte population with money to burning, which is why we havne't seen the breaking point.  

 

Yet.  Because the people they need to replace those old white dudes are turning to other places because of the cost and a variety of other issues with baseball.  At least that's my theory.

I like that theory. I think you're definitely on to something there. I think the deterioration of the family atmosphere plays into that as well. Not only is it exceedingly expensive, but with the continued push to sell alcohol the behavior disintegrates too. I don't have kids, but it's not uncommon to find myself sitting there wondering whether or not I'd subject my kid to what goes on in the crowd sometimes.

 

Keeping families and the next generation of fans away is big problem, not just for baseball. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I like that theory. I think you're definitely on to something there. I think the deterioration of the family atmosphere plays into that as well. Not only is it exceedingly expensive, but with the continued push to sell alcohol the behavior disintegrates too. I don't have kids, but it's not uncommon to find myself sitting there wondering whether or not I'd subject my kid to what goes on in the crowd sometimes.

 

Keeping families and the next generation of fans away is big problem, not just for baseball. 

 

I wish there was a way to access the demographics of ticket-buyers over time.  My family has gone from regular baseball game attendees to completely absent.  I wonder if we're unique in that regard.

[Knuckleball9]

Twins dichotomy Cheap AND Expensive. I'm surprised they let DSP speak at all, every time he does I renew my boycott of all things Pohlad...  I still pull for the home team but won't open my wallet for these grifters.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It isn’t just the Twins. Since peaking in 2007, attendance across MLB is down over 4000 per game.

From 1989-2012, MLB averaged 1 new stadium opening every year.

 

Since 2012, the only new park has been Atlanta's (2017).

 

It's definitely complicated, but I feel the 2000-2010 period attendance was probably inflated by this factor.

[wsnydes]

I wish there was a way to access the demographics of ticket-buyers over time. My family has gone from regular baseball game attendees to completely absent. I wonder if we're unique in that regard.

I doubt you are, but it would be very interesting to see the demographics. I go to fewer games as well. Most of that is that I simply don't have the time I used to, but it's also gotten more expensive and I'd rather spend that money elsewhere.

[notoriousgod71]

I also have to assume that the dollar hotdogs are just awful on par with the KC dollar hotdogs that a dog wouldn't touch.

 

But that is purely an assumption as I don't typically eat at the ballpark.

[Doomtints]

Attendance may be down league-wide, sure. But come on. This team has been terrible for a long time, and Minnesotans have proven they will show up if the team is good and they won't if the team is bad.

 

Saying attendance is down everywhere is a cop-out and it's giving this organization credit it doesn't deserve.

[nokomismod]

 

Pretty sure concession prices were ridiculous before any minimum wage laws. 

Yeah God forbid we should pay the people who are working at a sporting event a decent wage.

[Parker Hageman]

The topic of food concessions was on a Planet Money podcast last November. The show focused on the Falcons and how they were doing going the other direction with it, but the show also touched upon why concession pricing in general is so outrageous.

 

Essentially, the Delaware North's of the world, who the Twins contract with to provide concessions, will set the initial cost really high across the board (which is why some products cost the same whether you are at Yankee Stadium or Target Field where the fan base income is very different). The Falcon's went a different direction.

 

FOUNTAIN: If you're like me, you probably thought the reason stadium food prices are so high is because the teams just want to wring every penny out of fans. But that's only half true. I head up to the front office to meet Rich McKay, the president of the Falcons. And he tells me the way stadium food usually works is teams hire a food company to do everything and then have almost no say after that.

Could you complain about - I don't know - warm beer?

 

RICH MCKAY: Yes, you can complain. That's all you do is complain. You don't - it's - nothing happens as a result of it.

 

SHAPIRO: The reason is big multinational companies compete for these contracts. And the bidding gets intense. The company that wins usually ponies up millions, sometimes tens of millions of dollars upfront and then splits the revenues from the sales with the team. And so, according to Greg Beadles, the COO of the Falcons, before a single Bud Light is even poured, those companies have dug themselves into a big hole.

 

GREG BEADLES: So for them to get their money back, there's only two sides of the balloon left to squeeze. And it's food quality; let's buy the cheapest food that we can. And let's charge as much as we can. And maybe, like, you know, a third is labor; let's have as few people as possible to make all of this happen.

 

FOUNTAIN: That's why it takes so long to get a hot dog. That's why the hot dog costs so much, and that's why it might be cold.

 

 

[Doomtints]

The Twins don't have to do things the way every other team does them. In fact, if they want to be cheap (and we know they do), they might want to try a new approach to concessions.

 

"Cheap" after all doesn't mean "make the consumer pay more so we can save."

Edited April 23, 2019 by Doomtints

[Mike Sixel]

 

The topic of food concessions was on a Planet Money podcast last November. The show focused on the Falcons and how they were doing going the other direction with it, but the show also touched upon why concession pricing in general is so outrageous.

 

Essentially, the Delaware North's of the world, who the Twins contract with to provide concessions, will set the initial cost really high across the board (which is why some products cost the same whether you are at Yankee Stadium or Target Field where the fan base income is very different). The Falcon's went a different direction.

 

The Twins and other teams decide to do things this way. They could serve quality items, at better prices, if they wanted.......but they don't want to. It's really that simple. They'd rather farm it out to someone else, who cares not one bit about quality or cost....

Edited April 23, 2019 by Mike Sixel

[Doomtints]

Attendance more than doubles when the Twins play well. Who woulda guessed?

 

OK, maybe everyone would have guessed.

[Vanimal46]

Attendance more than doubles when the Twins play well. Who woulda guessed?

 

OK, maybe everyone would have guessed.

$5 tickets also help.

[notoriousgod71]

 

$5 tickets also help.

 

 

I bet they'd sell out every game if all the tickets were that cheap.

[ashbury]

I bet they'd sell out every game if all the tickets were that cheap.

And they'd be capped at around $16M in ticket revenue instead of what I believe to be around $44M. That would make a noticeable dent in the payroll budget, among other things.

[amjgt]

32,000 yesterday for a mid-week day game, before the end of the school year. I'd say attendance is picking up.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

32,000 yesterday for a mid-week day game, before the end of the school year. I'd say attendance is picking up.

I wonder if they had a lot of school groups in attendance.