Article: Hardball, the Twins, and Byron Buxton

[Kelly Vance]

 

No. No he hasn’t. You can’t lose something you never had and that was never guaranteed to you. This year of service was never guaranteed. And Buxton is at least partly responsible for being in the position he is to lose it...both in terms of lack of durability and performance. Does Cave deserve losing at-bats to Buxton this fall? Would we be even noticing this if Buxton was the scrappy journeyman 6th-rounder and Cave were the 2nd overall pick whose greatness had been proclaimed since 2014?

And yet, I want Buxton up. Life isn’t fair.

You can't blame "Lack of durability" on a player that crashes into the wall and dives for fly balls for your entertainment. Unless, of course, you don't care about the effort displayed. 

 

And this has nothing to do with Cave, or Grossmann or Nick Punto.   Does anybody really want to see Buck sent home so Fields and Grossman can get more at bats? 

Edited September 3, 2018 by Kelly Vance

[Kelly Vance]

 

That's a 4 year grudge.

 

He is either an adult dealing with a set back or immature without the ability to deal with things. 

 

Every person I have ever met, that had the capability of holding a grudge for 4 years was either: 

 

A. Someone who shuts down and refuses to communicate afterwards so the air never gets cleared. 

 

B. A person who is so emotionally messed up that they actually like the feeling of being angry. 

 

C. A person who never takes responsibility for his own actions and constantly shifts blame to others. 

 

Neither A or B or C is the type of person that you want to give a big money free agent contract.

 

Besides... We could have granted him every one of his wishes and he would still be gone if the Yankees outbid us. 

 

Buxton needs to outplay the players competing for his job. That's the bottom line. 

 

Let him hit triples, dust himself off and point to the executive suite and say "Take that you (Insert expletive of choice)". 

 

He needs to realize right now that he is not guaranteed to be Willie Mays. He has to look at himself and take control of his future with both hands. 

 

Holding a grudge for 4 years. If he can do that. I don't want him. 

River, we often agree, but you don't understand players if you think there is a shelf life on a big DISS like this.  

[Kelly Vance]

 

Unless he's had a broken toe for the last four years, I don't really buy it.  And it doesn't explain why AAA guys are striking him out like crazy.

 

People keep trying to blame the broken toe but Buxton's hitting issues long pre-date that.  And have continued since.

He was hitting like a stud at the end of last year. He broke his toe and hurt his wrist this year. Don't talk about him like he is a lousy AA good field no hit.  He hit .300 last year for a decent amount of time.And was the best defender in all of baseball.   

[Riverbrian]

 

River, we often agree, but you don't understand players if you think there is a shelf life on a big DISS like this.  

 

I don't understand other humans at all. 

 

Collectively... humans are the reason that Ghost Adventures are on the Travel Channel. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

He was hitting like a stud at the end of last year. He broke his toe and hurt his wrist this year. Don't talk about him like he is a lousy AA good field no hit.  He hit .300 last year for a decent amount of time.And was the best defender in all of baseball.   

 

He had two great months.  He has had many more lousy months. 

 

If we have to trade him because he's so awesome and won't resign here - I'll take that problem.  Right now he's filler in a trade at best.  

 

His career numbers offensively are simply not good.  And the sample is no longer small.  These are facts.  Facts I hope change, but facts.

[Riverbrian]

 

River, we often agree, but you don't understand players if you think there is a shelf life on a big DISS like this.  

 

Let's say you are right (You might be) and he never gets over it. I believe it is possible that Byron gets over it but also believe it is possible that his agent remembers. Those guys are good at grabbing leverage whenever they can.    

 

It still doesn't matter because it is all about value. 

 

If he doesn't repair his value... None of this matters. He becomes a bust and spends his career in Ben Revere land. 

 

If he repairs his value and becomes the player that you (and I) believe he can be. Then there are a couple of scenarios. 

 

A. We enjoy 3 or 4 years of high quality baseball that helps win three world series titles in a row. Then he signs with the Braves or Yankees for more money than we can afford anyway. We of course offer him a QO and he turns it down and we get an extra draft choice but we got those three world series titles to soften the blow. 

 

B. We realize that relationship isn't getting fixed but since he has established himself as one of the top players in the major leagues... we trade him and get an amazing return. 

 

It's a business... it's all about value now. If he's pissed, he is here for 4 years or until the Twins say differently. 

 

It would be in his best interest to get it together. 

 

 

[jkcarew]

You can't blame "Lack of durability" on a player that crashes into the wall and dives for fly balls for your entertainment. Unless, of course, you don't care about the effort displayed. 

 

And this has nothing to do with Cave, or Grossmann or Nick Punto.   Does anybody really want to see Buck sent home so Fields and Grossman can get more at bats?

 

I said I wanted Buxton up. And durability is a real and valuable quality...independent of effort. There are a ton of players that hustle for my entertainment and play 140-150 games a year.

[jkcarew]

I disagree with this decision...but can’t quite muster the sky-is-falling angst that seems to be the theme taking over the thread. If Buxton gets “pissed” and turns into a player that can hit major league pitching and stay on the field...and we control him for an extra year...that’s the downside? He’s currently a 79 OPS+ guy with 1000 PA. If he turns into a good major league hitter, the Twins were probably not going to be able to keep him anyway. If he continues as the hitter he’s been (overall) he’s not valuable enough to obsess about losing.

 

And the ‘nobody will ever sign with us after this’ hysteria, I don’t buy into. It doesn’t work that way.

[laloesch]

 

The guy has been TERRIBLE offensively this year. But let's keep ignoring that because he was a high draft pick and is tremendously athletic. I guess great defense means he needs to be called up in September to be a defensive replacement only. Take your blinders off folks.

 

Yeah really. I can't understand how some folks insist he is one of the Twins best players and should be called up immediately because he's hitting in AAA. Look we've seen this before. He tears it up in the minors only to struggle with his hitting to the point that he can barely keep his average at the medoza line while striking out 35%+ of his at-bats, swinging at breaking balls that bounce two feet in front of home plate. Sorry that's simply not good enough. If Cave continues to hit Buxton will have to earn his way back to the majors. Given how well Cave has played he is head and shoulders above Byron Buxton at this point. That's my opinion on the matter.  

Edited September 3, 2018 by laloesch

[KirbyDome89]

 

The guy has been TERRIBLE offensively this year. But let's keep ignoring that because he was a high draft pick and is tremendously athletic. I guess great defense means he needs to be called up in September to be a defensive replacement only. Take your blinders off folks.

Gimenez, Belisle, and Johnny Field are all on the active roster right now.

 

Blinders is looking at that trio and saying they should be getting innings rather than Buxton....

[Otto von Ballpark]

If Cave continues to hit Buxton will have to earn his way back to the majors. Given how well Cave has played he is head and shoulders above Byron Buxton at this point. That's my opinion on the matter.

If Buxton is that far behind Cave, he's probably not part of your opening day 2019 outfield anyway, in which case, there's no service time reason to send him home now. Couldn't you recall him to take a few at bats from Field/Grossman/etc this month, and avoid this whole weird mess? You don't need to send Buxton home now to communicate that he needs to earn his starting job back. There's a ton of guys on the Twins roster right now working to earn future jobs -- Buxton could be one of them.

[jokin]

 

Yeah really. I can't understand how some folks insist he is one of the Twins best players and should be called up immediately because he's hitting in AAA. Look we've seen this before. He tears it up in the minors only to struggle with his hitting to the point that he can barely keep his average at the medoza line while striking out 35%+ of his at-bats, swinging at breaking balls that bounce two feet in front of home plate. Sorry that's simply not good enough. If Cave continues to hit Buxton will have to earn his way back to the majors. Given how well Cave has played he is head and shoulders above Byron Buxton at this point. That's my opinion on the matter.  

 

 

Head and shoulders? Temporarily, for sure, but long-term? Not really.

 

And here're the actual numbers on Buxton's K-rate:

 

Buxton K% 2018: 29.8%

Buxton K% 2017: 29.4%

 

VS. Cave:

 

Cave K% 2018: 31.9%

 

Oops.

 

This forgotten facts below are why it's far too soon to so easily write off Buck:

 

Buxton WAR for 2017 in 140 games: 5.2

 

Buxton MILB OPS: .874 SLG: .499

Cave MILB OPS: .768 SLG: .426

 

Which set of numbers suggests ultimately a better outcome?

 

In addition, Cave is not all that impressive in CF, but might make a decent corner OF. It seems to me like he's threatening Kepler's job more than Buxton's. (And consider the need for one RH bat in the OF).

 

I'm anxious and hopeful to see a new-look Buxton in ST in 2019- 100% healthy, after a huge off-season devoted to addressing his flaws at the plate-

AND-

with a huge chip on his shoulder with something to prove to everybody, including himself, that he can and will fulfill his true promise and potential.

Edited September 3, 2018 by jokin

[Otto von Ballpark]

How so? It's now an issue. I said it wasn't an issue until it happened. It has now happened. I think it's the wrong decision.

It certainly wasn't clickbait. It was a reasonable and imminent concern worthy of fan discussion.

[Platoon]

When Cave is playing his best and Buxton is playing his worst, Jake Cave is a better offensive player. When Jake Cave is playing his best and Buxton is simply average there is no difference offensively. With both at their best offensively Cave doesn't have a prayer. It's a floor ceiling issue. As for defensively, I won't even bother to debate that question.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Platoon

[Blackjack]

If he turns into the superstar we all hope he does but won't sign an extension in 3.5 years, he can always be traded.

 

If he doesn't turn into a superstar, all this angst is for nothing.  And he can still be traded at anytime if he has a bad attitude.

[DrNeau]

Buxton should be riding on the AAA buses for the rest of the year, but he gets a hall pass because he needs to be treated differently that’s the others.

[Number3]

Twins are conducting a social experiment; not a Major League baseball franchise. Their motto is "Can't we all just get along?" If they could change the rules to not keeping score they would jump at the chance. Truly is a crying shame. Joe Mauer and Paul Molitor are perfect to be the face/manager of this franchise. Really nice, low key people who don't want to ruffle any feathers.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Buxton should be riding on the AAA buses for the rest of the year, but he gets a hall pass because he needs to be treated differently that’s the others.

There were no more bus rides. The Red Wings were already back at home for their last 2 games when Buxton was allowed to leave.

 

And he was given a different choice only because the team had put him in a different spot -- 40-man players (edit to add: with extensive previous MLB experience) are customarily either called up on Sep. 1, or informed they will be called up when the minor league season ends. They told Buxton that neither of those would apply to him, so they gave him the option to go home early.

Edited September 3, 2018 by spycake

[yarnivek1972]

There were no more bus rides. The Red Wings were already back at home for their last 2 games when Buxton was allowed to leave.

 

And he was given a different choice only because the team had put him in a different spot -- 40-man players are customarily either called up on Sep. 1, or informed they will be called up when the minor league season ends. They told Buxton that neither of those would apply to him, so they gave him the option to go home early.

Not all 40 man players are customarily called up.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Not all 40 man players are customarily called up.

Most with previous extensive MLB experience -- that's what I meant, sorry. I know guys like Lewis Thorpe aren't, typically.

[gunnarthor]

At the end of the day, Buxton got 90 at-bats in the majors this year, over half of them on a broken foot. I understand why the team is doing what they're doing but I hope Buxton files a grievance and wins. 

 

Despite his busted year, I'm not really worried about his longterm future. If he can stay healthy, he'll be fine. But this is yet another move by the FO that I don't like or agree with and the number of those moves is starting to add up. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

I guess I think the reason to not call him up is rather straight-forward....

 

His play has far from demanded it.  

Don't know what you are watching but he was hitting like a stud in AAA after being activated in August. Small sample size, but .385 is a Rod Carew number. 

Edited September 3, 2018 by Kelly Vance

[Don Walcott]

 

At the end of the day, Buxton got 90 at-bats in the majors this year, over half of them on a broken foot. I understand why the team is doing what they're doing but I hope Buxton files a grievance and wins. 

 

Despite his busted year, I'm not really worried about his longterm future. If he can stay healthy, he'll be fine. But this is yet another move by the FO that I don't like or agree with and the number of those moves is starting to add up. 

Yet another risk of the FO taking this approach, is that they lose the grievance and don't get the extra year, they get tagged with a bad reputation among players and their agents, and they've damaged their relationship with Buxton to the point where he refuses to deal with them, and he becomes a star somewhere else from age 27 on.

 

It might have seemed to be a clever manipulation of their contractual relationship with Buxton. But it might end up as a breach of contract that irreparably harms the FO's reputation beyond their time with the Twins. They're playing a dangerous game to save a few bucks (at the expense of Bux) for the ownership.

[Thrylos]

 

Yet somehow, .135 hitting waiver castoff Johnny Field got a call up. If I were Buxton, I'd feel a tad insulted, especially if we are talking about meriting your promotion.

 

2018 MLB numbers:

 

Johnny Field: .196/.235/.339 (201 PA)
Byron Buxton: .156/.183/.200 (94 PA)

 

Quick:  Who has performed better at the MLB level this season and merits a spot between these two?  

[Brandon Warne]

 

Our definitions of “superstar” vary widely.

 

I mean it's a 5-6 win player, so....this year that's Aaron Judge, Javier Baez, Paul Goldschmidt, J.D. Martinez....

 

Those are all superstars.

[DrNeau]

There were no more bus rides. The Red Wings were already back at home for their last 2 games when Buxton was allowed to leave.

 

And he was given a different choice only because the team had put him in a different spot -- 40-man players (edit to add: with extensive previous MLB experience) are customarily either called up on Sep. 1, or informed they will be called up when the minor league season ends. They told Buxton that neither of those would apply to him, so they gave him the option to go home early.

 

Where’d you read this, that he was allowed to leave? If that’s accuracy, then thanks for the info. I hadn’t read that anywhere.

[Kelly Vance]

 

2018 MLB numbers:

 

Johnny Field: .196/.235/.339 (201 PA)
Byron Buxton: .156/.183/.200 (94 PA)

 

Quick:  Who has performed better at the MLB level this season and merits a spot between these two?  

Quick, who was playing on a broken foot?  Not a fair comparison. 

[Don Walcott]

 

Quick, who was playing on a broken foot?  Not a fair comparison. 

Quick, who received MVP votes in 2017?

[Thrylos]

 

Quick, who was playing on a broken foot?  Not a fair comparison. 

 

Nobody was playing on a broken foot.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Where’d you read this, that he was allowed to leave? If that’s accuracy, then thanks for the info. I hadn’t read that anywhere.

Well, it has been reported a few places as a "shut down" with the implication that he wasn't going to play in the last 2 Rochester games anyway. (Which makes sense, it would have been bad optics to cite health for the lack of recall, but then continue to play him in Rochester.) And I haven't seen anything to suggest he left without permission.