Article: Hardball, the Twins, and Byron Buxton

[mazeville]

This is so maddening. 

 

I know I'm late to the party, but I sure hope Doogie is wrong. Not bringing up Buxton can only be seen as a service time issue. Even if it isn't, everybody is going to THINK it is and that's not a good thing, either.

 

If his wrist still has issues, he should not be playing. I don't care if it's Rochester or Minnesota or Fort Myers.

 

If he's healthy enough to swing a bat, he should be up here testing out his swing on major league breaking balls. 

 

My view of the front office is completely different now because of this. As I said, I hope Doogie is wrong. But one year of service time doesn't matter if the player isn't very good. 

 

If he's not wrong, then the Twins deserve every bit of criticism for being "cheap" that they get because of this. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Some reports indicate the wrist is still an issue.

again, what reports? From earlier this summer?

[Riverbrian]

 

As a fan, I want to see the best players playing. Buxton is among our best players, and he is, if not the most entertaining, among the three or four most entertaining players to watch. I also want to see the players get paid fairly, and it doesn't bother me at all that Buxton will get a better deal on an extension if the Twins don't jerk him around for the rest of the year.

 

Full disclosure: I am on the players side... I really am. I fully believe that as the current CBA stands. It is the owners who have the greater advantage and leverage for the players is the crux of my issue. 

 

Here is why I'm pro players: 

 

Teams acquire exclusive rights to players by draft and those exclusive rights according to the CBA could last 12 years before he reaches free agency and the right to control his own fate. This will make the players peak earning power (free agency) collide with the time that he becomes less appealing as he enters a decline phase. 

 

I'm on the players side. They get the short end of the stick in my opinion. It's a bad agreement and it needs to be corrected in the bargaining session and I think it is going to get ugly if the last free agency period was a harbinger of things to come and I think it was. 

 

However... in fairness... The Players are not an Angels either. The MLBPA represents both the major league and minor league baseball players but... ONLY THE MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYERS ARE ALLOWED TO VOTE. This leaves the minor league players... the ones who will eventually take their jobs with no representation. 

 

So... when the big boys get together to negotiate an agreement... they are both fully aware of service time manipulation. Nobody is pulling the wool over anyone's eyes with all the talk about needing 17 days of additional seasoning in April. The MLBPA isn't concerned about Kris Bryant and Acuna and now Eloy Jimenez because they have done no negotiating to protect them. They addressed service time manipulation with options, super two and veterans consent for the benefit of the voting players to speed the time to free agency along and prevent teams from putting players to sleep. 

 

They got together... they reached their agreement which set the rules of the game and the winners will be the ones who understand the rules and use them to their advantage. Together they created the system that rewards teams for manipulating service time. 

 

"Good Faith" has done it's job. J.T. Realmuto has two options left. The Marlins are out of it... Why wouldn't they send him down to New Orleans and get another extra year. Good Faith is the only explanation. 

 

So... even though I side with the players overall... The agreement was reached, they looked across the table at each other, probably a couple of fists got banged on the table, the lawyers read the documents deep into the night and an agreement was reached. 

 

This frees me up to become a fan. Once I'm a fan... I'm looking out for my best interest. 

 

As long as I walk this earth... I will be a Twins Fan. And if I'm waiting for bad Buxton to become Good Buxton... I want the extra year to enjoy it. I care more about me that I do about the players but I'm selfish that way.    

 

Byron Buxton... simply isn't the player you describe. I love him... I think he is absolutely exciting. I think he will be one of the best when he stops trying to hit 5 run homers to left on outside pitches... But right now... he isn't one of our best players... he was one of our worst.

 

Performance and Health is more than enough justification for a September sit down and yes... let's gain that extra year of service time just in case he eventually becomes the player we want him to be.

 

He can take September off or spend April in Rochester... but I'm getting that year back or the front office is officially not qualified to act on my behalf. 

 

 

 

[sthpstm]

The guy has been TERRIBLE offensively this year. But let's keep ignoring that because he was a high draft pick and is tremendously athletic. I guess great defense means he needs to be called up in September to be a defensive replacement only. Take your blinders off folks.

[yarnivek1972]

I didn’t say anything about financial hardship. He’s earning his money honestly, and not calling him up to keep him another year away from free agency would not be honest. It’s bad form, and the Twins should be better than that.

This is literally what you typed:

 

 

I’m not sure why anyone is okay with harming him and his family financially by sitting him the rest of the year. Sure, it's a business, but people who run their businesses by unfairly harming other people end up harming themselves by losing good relationships and creating a bad reputation for themselves.

[Don Walcott]

This is literally what you typed:

 

 

I’m not sure why anyone is okay with harming him and his family financially by sitting him the rest of the year. Sure, it's a business, but people who run their businesses by unfairly harming other people end up harming themselves by losing good relationships and creating a bad reputation for themselves.

Where do you read “financial hardship” in that?

[Don Walcott]

Lets not create an ethical issue that it isn’t there. First, Not calling him up would not be a breach of the covenant of good faith and fair dealing. The front office has the right under the contract to determine when he is “ready” to be called up to MLB. Exercising a contractual right is not a breach of the Covenant of good faith and fair dealing, at least here in California. Perhaps the law is different elsewhere.

 

As I said in the earlier post, if you think the guy has excelled at the AAA level he should be called up. If he hasn’t, he shouldn’t. This is Sports, promotions should be based on merit not on draft position or columnists writing that Buxton performing is the only way the team will ever get any better. The better player should get the opportunity. Right now based upon performance this year, Cave is the better player. He should get the time to play. Let’s not create a false narrative that the only reason Buxton wouldn’t get called up is because of service time issues. The facts simply don’t support of that view. It is at best arguable as to whether he has earned a promotion; I would say the evidence supports that he has not.

Your argument against Buxton being called up appears to be based on merit. If the decision is based on merit, no problem. If it’s based solely on preventing him from having service time it’s bad faith, in Minnesota, New Mexico and even California.

[Mr. Brooks]

Setting aside the ethicality of it, you are misrepresenting details here. Buxton is neither struggling nor "banged up" right now.

His k and bb rates in AAA indicate someone who is struggling mightily, IMO.

If he's striking out at this rate in AAA, he's got little chance against MLB pitching.

[Monkeypaws]

Yet somehow, .135 hitting waiver castoff Johnny Field got a call up. If I were Buxton, I'd feel a tad insulted, especially if we are talking about meriting your promotion.

[Don Walcott]

 

Full disclosure: I am on the players side... I really am. I fully believe that as the current CBA stands. It is the owners who have the greater advantage and leverage for the players is the crux of my issue. 

 

Here is why I'm pro players: 

 

Teams acquire exclusive rights to players by draft and those exclusive rights according to the CBA could last 12 years before he reaches free agency and the right to control his own fate. This will make the players peak earning power (free agency) collide with the time that he becomes less appealing as he enters a decline phase. 

 

I'm on the players side. They get the short end of the stick in my opinion. It's a bad agreement and it needs to be corrected in the bargaining session and I think it is going to get ugly if the last free agency period was a harbinger of things to come and I think it was. 

 

However... in fairness... The Players are not an Angels either. The MLBPA represents both the major league and minor league baseball players but... ONLY THE MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYERS ARE ALLOWED TO VOTE. This leaves the minor league players... the ones who will eventually take their jobs with no representation. 

 

So... when the big boys get together to negotiate an agreement... they are both fully aware of service time manipulation. Nobody is pulling the wool over anyone's eyes with all the talk about needing 17 days of additional seasoning in April. The MLBPA isn't concerned about Kris Bryant and Acuna and now Eloy Jimenez because they have done no negotiating to protect them. They addressed service time manipulation with options, super two and veterans consent for the benefit of the voting players to speed the time to free agency along and prevent teams from putting players to sleep. 

 

They got together... they reached their agreement which set the rules of the game and the winners will be the ones who understand the rules and use them to their advantage. Together they created the system that rewards teams for manipulating service time. 

 

"Good Faith" has done it's job. J.T. Realmuto has two options left. The Marlins are out of it... Why wouldn't they send him down to New Orleans and get another extra year. Good Faith is the only explanation. 

 

So... even though I side with the players overall... The agreement was reached, they looked across the table at each other, probably a couple of fists got banged on the table, the lawyers read the documents deep into the night and an agreement was reached. 

 

This frees me up to become a fan. Once I'm a fan... I'm looking out for my best interest. 

 

As long as I walk this earth... I will be a Twins Fan. And if I'm waiting for bad Buxton to become Good Buxton... I want the extra year to enjoy it. I care more about me that I do about the players but I'm selfish that way.    

 

Byron Buxton... simply isn't the player you describe. I love him... I think he is absolutely exciting. I think he will be one of the best when he stops trying to hit 5 run homers to left on outside pitches... But right now... he isn't one of our best players... he was one of our worst.

 

Performance and Health is more than enough justification for a September sit down and yes... let's gain that extra year of service time just in case he eventually becomes the player we want him to be.

 

He can take September off or spend April in Rochester... but I'm getting that year back or the front office is officially not qualified to act on my behalf. 

I can accept that, in theory, you are with the players. You are obviously not with Buxton on this one. The issue, in my view, isn't whether we get another year of control, and therefore reap the benefit of one more year of Buxton. The issue is that Buxton loses a lot of money by this decision, assuming he plays well in the future. The Twins can always give him a generous extension and keep him longer than their current control, but it will cost money. I guess I'd rather they just pay guys fairly, even if the players are well paid. We pay for the entertainment, and they are the entertainment for which we pay. I personally don't pay for the entertainment in order to applaud the FO making a clever, technical, legal maneuver that screws over a player.

 

We disagree on Buxton as a player. If you believe he should be held down because of his health and because he's not good enough to play for this team, that's fine. But if he's not that good, why do you care if the Twins get another year of control? And if he is potentially that good, why would you hold him down instead of giving him more time to work on his game at the major league level? If having him play September with the Twins helps Buxton's development, are you still against it because we failed to screw him out of some money? If playing him in September helps him to be an important part of the 2019 Twins, why would you be against that? Personally, I want to see this team win, not hoard more of their ridiculous profits.

 

I believe he's still the player we saw last year. He hit well in stretches, was almost perfect stealing bases, was as exciting as anyone I've ever seen running the bases, and he deservedly was named the best defensive player in the major leagues. Ask any Twins pitcher if they want Buxton patrolling center field in September. This year, he has had migraines and then a broken toe to deal with, and none of us knows how hard it must have been for him to perform through that. In another thread, I blamed the FO for not letting him properly rehab from the broken toe. If you watched the games, you know that it severely affected his performance.

 

I expect he'll be back to form in 2019. And I believe that getting to play for the Twins in September will help him to be ready to be that player in 2019. And I don't want to see him demoted at the beginning of 2019 for any reason other than he hasn't earned a place in the team. And frankly, I'd be shocked if that happens. As a Twins fan, I'm rooting for Buxton to be the player you don't think he is, but I do. I hope to see that player in September and, more importantly, in 2019. And I hope he's that player for a long time with the Twins, whatever amount they pay him.

[jkcarew]

The issue is that Buxton loses a lot of money by this decision, assuming he plays well in the future.

No. No he hasn’t. You can’t lose something you never had and that was never guaranteed to you. This year of service was never guaranteed. And Buxton is at least partly responsible for being in the position he is to lose it...both in terms of lack of durability and performance. Does Cave deserve losing at-bats to Buxton this fall? Would we be even noticing this if Buxton was the scrappy journeyman 6th-rounder and Cave were the 2nd overall pick whose greatness had been proclaimed since 2014?

 

And yet, I want Buxton up. Life isn’t fair.

[Riverbrian]

 

The issue, in my view, isn't whether we get another year of control, and therefore reap the benefit of one more year of Buxton. The issue is that Buxton loses a lot of money by this decision, assuming he plays well in the future.

 

He loses potential money but nothing in baseball is guaranteed. You have to sing for your supper. He has to be better than the next guy. Just giving him a roster spot without earning it also potentially takes money away from Jake Cave or someone else. Somebody gets the money. 

 

I personally don't pay for the entertainment in order to applaud the FO making a clever, technical, legal maneuver that screws over a player.

 

I do... Sometime I sit backwards in my seat at Target Field so I can see if they are typing something in their suite. 

 

 

We disagree on Buxton as a player. If you believe he should be held down because of his health and because he's not good enough to play for this team, that's fine. But if he's not that good, why do you care if the Twins get another year of control?

 

I have no idea about his health and won't make the health claim. He was really bad this year performance wise but still believe he can be something in the future. At least I'm hoping. I still believe in Byron Buxton and you have to prepare for the future and the possibility that he will be what he should be in the future. If he becomes that... we will want that extra year.  If he was Nishioka Bad... I wouldn't care. I'm not worried about getting an extra year from Adrianaza. Sorry Ehire if you are reading that. 

 

And if he is potentially that good, why would you hold him down instead of giving him more time to work on his game at the major league level? 

 

I don't believe September AB's will be enough of a help or even worse... they could be a false positive. 

 

This year, he has had migraines and then a broken toe to deal with, and none of us knows how hard it must have been for him to perform through that. 

 

I don't know how hard it was to go through that and won't pretend I do or dismiss the possibility that it was the reason. It was bad luck for Buxton. But... if it was injury related... I'm going to point my finger at Molitor once again just like I did with Morrison and his hip. If he played Buxton and Morrison every day and they played as bad as they did every day and it was injury related and he didn't adjust... that's just plain bad managing. Kinda unforgivable. 

 

If you watched the games, you know that it severely affected his performance.

 

I watch nearly every game... every inning. 

 

And I don't want to see him demoted at the beginning of 2019 for any reason other than he hasn't earned a place in the team. And frankly, I'd be shocked if that happens.

 

I'd like Buxton to break camp with the club in 2019. It's why I prefer the September sit so we get the year and Buxton can just start 2019 full stride and stay forever. But... He isn't my starting CF until he earns it and he has an option remaining and I wouldn't be afraid to use it if he isn't earning it. 

 

As a Twins fan, I'm rooting for Buxton to be the player you don't think he is, but I do.

 

I'm rooting for Buxton. Actually I'm praying for him. We need a superstar! 

 

I hope to see that player in September and, more importantly, in 2019. And I hope he's that player for a long time with the Twins, whatever amount they pay him.

 

I want the year back. 

 

I'm Bold

[rileyroy]

Buxton is a bust. He is injury prone and his slow starts last five months. We have seen him as good as he gets. Good D no offense. It is time to set our sites on the next group and hope they pan out. Bringing Buxton up now has no effect as he won’t be in the organization when the extra year kicks in. September stats for non-contending teams don’t matter. Remember Chris Parmalee’s September a few years back? Remember Chris Parmalee? Point taken.

[Mr. Brooks]

Buxton is a bust. He is injury prone and his slow starts last five months. We have seen him as good as he gets. Good D no offense. It is time to set our sites on the next group and hope they pan out. Bringing Buxton up now has no effect as he won’t be in the organization when the extra year kicks in. September stats for non-contending teams don’t matter. Remember Chris Parmalee’s September a few years back? Remember Chris Parmalee? Point taken.

Do his August stats count from last year?

[yarnivek1972]

Where do you read “financial hardship” in that?

Where do you not?

[Don Walcott]

Where do you not?

As I said before, I said nothing about financial hardship. You quoted and bolded the quote that said nothing about financial hardship. I have no idea what you are reading into my post, but it does not now, nor will it ever say or even imply “financial hardship”.

[Platoon]

According to the Strib the decision is to send Buxton home when the Rochester season ends. While I can see this as a motivational tool, I can also see it as a way to gain another year of control. In fact it could be both. But the bottom line is the handling of Buxton and his career this year have been on of the most confusing I have seen in quite awhile. From being so important that he needs to play with a broken toe, to not getting called up in September, is pretty much the far edges of a very large spectrum!

[Otto von Ballpark]

I haven’t seen an argument that a month of this losing season is better than a few weeks next April.

If you haven't seen it, then you haven't seen my posts on the subject. You may still reject it, though.

 

Seriously, if one thinks Buxton needs high-level game reps while they are available, especially after missing so many this season, the best thing might be to call him up to MLB when the AAA season ends, but then plan on a different "plan A" for the outfield in 2019 so you are not overly reliant on Buxton again, and you can option him for the first 29 days of the season, where he can continue to get game reps (albeit in AAA and not MLB) while you test the viability of your alternate plan A.

 

Gets you the same extra year of control, plus maximizes Buxton's game reps. The cost is, as you mention, that you go without Buxton for a month in 2019 where we might contend, as opposed to a month where we definitely aren't contending in 2018. But given where Buxton is at, I am not sure that month in 2019 is all that critical either -- I am sure if Buxton had ~29 more days service time, pushing the target for the extra year of control to roughly May 1st next year, you and others here would have no qualms about my plan.

 

If Buxton playing this September means nothing about your confidence in him to open next season, then you should actually be cool with my plan. Unless you think Buxton is a good opening day 2019 plan A, which seems suspect at this point.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Twins decide not to call up Byron Buxton at end of Class AAA Rochester's season

 

http://m.startribune.com/twins-decide-not-to-call-up-byron-buxton-at-end-of-class-aaa-rochester-s-season/492278891/

[Otto von Ballpark]

1. This isn't a "service time issue" until he's not on the roster when the Triple-A season ends. All of this is merely conjecture and frankly rallying the troops for something that isn't even that likely.

 

...

 

5. The Twins already know if they're bringing Buxton up -- they just aren't saying publicly. There's no reason for them to. Again, until he's not up on that day, this is just sounding the alarms for no other reason than to draw page views.

This post hasn't aged well...

[diehardtwinsfan]

Honestly, I have no problems holding Buxton back in September. I'd tell him to go to FTM and spend some time bulking up and working on his inability to hit ML pitching. I'd also tell him to plan on starting 2019 in Rochester. He's shown enough to make me think he can be an ML all star, but at the same point, he's been handed a job each of the last 2 seasons and done absolutely nothing with it. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Honestly, I have no problems holding Buxton back in September. I'd tell him to go to FTM and spend some time bulking up and working on his inability to hit ML pitching. I'd also tell him to plan on starting 2019 in Rochester. He's shown enough to make me think he can be an ML all star, but at the same point, he's been handed a job each of the last 2 seasons and done absolutely nothing with it.

As we have seen with Sano, there are limits to Ft Myers solutions. I'd rather give him MLB reps this September while they are available, do the Ft Myers thing this offseason, and then plan to option him next April as you describe.

[jorgenswest]

If you haven't seen it, then you haven't seen my posts on the subject. You may still reject it, though.

Seriously, if one thinks Buxton needs high-level game reps while they are available, especially after missing so many this season, the best thing might be to call him up to MLB when the AAA season ends, but then plan on a different "plan A" for the outfield in 2019 so you are not overly reliant on Buxton again, and you can option him for the first 29 days of the season, where he can continue to get game reps (albeit in AAA and not MLB) while you test the viability of your alternate plan A.

Gets you the same extra year of control, plus maximizes Buxton's game reps. The cost is, as you mention, that you go without Buxton for a month in 2019 where we might contend, as opposed to a month where we definitely aren't contending in 2018. But given where Buxton is at, I am not sure that month in 2019 is all that critical either -- I am sure if Buxton had ~29 more days service time, pushing the target for the extra year of control to roughly May 1st next year, you and others here would have no qualms about my plan.

If Buxton playing this September means nothing about your confidence in him to open next season, then you should actually be cool with my plan. Unless you think Buxton is a good opening day 2019 plan A, which seems suspect at this point.

I would really appreciate to have the full post quoted so that the part after the sentence you chose that started being convinced was included. I apologize if that sentence out of context implied that I haven’t read have written. My fault. I am not convinced that a month this year is better than a few weeks next year.

[Platoon]

If this is redundant I apologize, but this is LEN3 take on it. By far the most opinionated I have saw from his pen.

 

http://www.startribune.com/twins-postgame-what-game-byron-buxton-isn-t-coming-up-let-s-discuss-that/492278811/

[beckmt]

For a lot of these players called up, it is to see if they should remain on the 40 man roster this fall.  That is meaningful.  If you bring Buxton up, you have to play him, that takes away playing time for any outfield candidates for the 40 man to be evaluated this September.

If you want to make the argument the new FO is trying to prove that TR did not know what he was doing the last few years and are rebuilding in place with their own players, I might well agree with you.  But this discission has its upside and downside and I can see the point in it.

[Platoon]

It appears from LEN that Falvey acknowledges that service time is an issue, and that they will have to invest in the relationship in the future. Almost seems like a "we will make it up to him" is part of the discussion? This is sort of a confusing one. I doubt the lack of AB's this fall will make or break him. I doubt he is totally healthy from the sounds of it. He is likely getting "screwed" out of a year of service time. The handling of his toe issue was ridiculous. Some of the issues are on him, such as performance and his penchant for getting injured. There are a lot of moving peices here. While I can't imagine the relationship being fully repaired, I doubt any of us will be in the room when an attempt is made. Does this cost the Twins in the long run? Buxton alone will determine the long term effect of this decision. From here on he holds the cards. Perform at an elite level, and the team will beg forgiveness. Perform at his current level, and service time will be the least of his, or the Twins problems!

[Otto von Ballpark]

I would really appreciate to have the full post quoted so that the part after the sentence you chose that started being convinced was included. I apologize if that sentence out of context implied that I haven’t read have written. My fault. I am not convinced that a month this year is better than a few weeks next year.

I was mostly needling you about not seeing it, that is all. I understand you are not convinced, although the rest of your post didn't really explain why, hence why I didn't include it in the quote.

 

There does seem to be a contradiction in this take. If at bats this month aren't critical, as you say, then what is your confidence level going into 2019? Must be pretty low, in which case, how valuable is that month next year? (It might actually have negative value if he starts slow out of spring training yet again.)

 

And I know you frequently warn of small samples sizes, and that can be warranted. September 2018 would be a small sample for Buxton and probably wouldn't mean much in the larger picture. But you can't get a larger sample without first accumulating some smaller samples too. Given where he is at, I would rather have +1 month recent data for him at any given point in the near future.

 

(And of course, Buxton's performance issues this year are largely based on a small sample too, his 94 PA in MLB this year. His AAA rates and performance are pretty much in line with his previous marks down there, when you consider that a portion of it this year was a rehab assignment.)

Edited September 2, 2018 by spycake

[Riverbrian]

 

If this is redundant I apologize, but this is LEN3 take on it. By far the most opinionated I have saw from his pen. http://www.startribune.com/twins-postgame-what-game-byron-buxton-isn-t-coming-up-let-s-discuss-that/492278811/

 

Interesting comments from Lavine. Thanks for posting the article. 

 

If Buxton is pissed... Hopefully he uses it as motivation and we will find out if he is the type who holds a grudge for 4 years. 

 

I've stated multiple times that I'm Ok with him taking September off and I've stated multiple times that the Twins should not go into 2019 without a Buxton safety net. Meaning I'm Ok if he is rostered on opening day but there should be another capable OF on the roster that he (and Kepler and Rosario) need to compete with for playing time. If we end up with 4 capable OF's that is a good problem not a bad problem. 

 

We also have an option that can be used and I hope when he says "responsibility to make amends" and "invest in the relationship" and "relationship building" that doesn't mean they won't use that option if necessary. 

 

It is all up to Buxton now. He has to get better and improve. 

 

I don't want the Twins to trade him at low value. The worst case scenario is to absorb the bad play only to watch him become what he is supposed to be somewhere else.

 

Only two outcomes are OK with me. 

 

Help him become the player he is supposed to be or swallow the loss whole. Buxton and the Twins now have 4 years. 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

For a lot of these players called up, it is to see if they should remain on the 40 man roster this fall. That is meaningful. If you bring Buxton up, you have to play him, that takes away playing time for any outfield candidates for the 40 man to be evaluated this September.

That is not much of a concern with Rosario out. Even when he is back, I think you know what you have in him, he can get some days off or at DH. Kepler can DH too. Or Buxton could, frankly, if you just want to see his bat.

[Kelly Vance]

Well, they did it. They shut him down and they know it ticked him off. Levine said 

 

"From this day forward, I think we recognize a responsibility to make amends," Levine said. "And that we're going to need to invest in the relationship with Byron Buxton moving forward, because I think as much as we would like to believe that all the relationship building here to date will carry the day, we understand this is a blow to the player, a potential blow to the relationship and we're prepared to try and stay as consistent as we can and reinvest in that element of this because we realized this was information that was not appealing or certainly collaborative."

 

Translation, "We know this will piss him off, but maybe we can give him something to smooth his ruffled feathers."

 

Meaning:  Buck is gone as soon as he can go free agent, and he won't sign an extension.