Article: Week in Review: Stumbling and Grumbling

[birddog]

Great article, Nick. Not a feel-good article but this has been a hurts-like-hell season. Totally agree with the good news about Morrison. I had no idea he had been hurting so maybe there was a reason for his ineptitude. Now don't even think about picking up his option for next year.

 

Maybe Belisle provides some veteran leadership, but with the money these guys are making actions have to speak louder than words. Maybe his words offer reassurance, but his pitching offers nothing other than a higher draft pick.

 

Needless to say, Falvine has their work cut out for them as apathy could not be higher right now. If not for Target Field we would have only relatives of the players showing up for games--kind of ironic since only the Eds showed up on the field this year ready to use their bat. And lastly I ask for about the 600th straight day, "Why haven't we seen Gonsalves yet?"

[Cap'n Piranha]

It’s baseball. Everyone knows, and has known for years, that teams with sub-.500 records and double digit deficits in the standings move players come the end of July and August. Players who don’t want that to happen to their team should ensure the team isn’t in that position.

[ND-Fan]

So begins the hype for the Twins on there next wave of prospects of Lewis and Krilloff  to give Twins fans something else to think about than this current group of players. Just remember both these kids are in minors and Lewis is still in A ball there's long way to go until they reach the majors. Just remember Sano and Buxton they were taring up minor baseball too not so many years ago. If this current group doesn't turn it around were looking at another 4 to 5 years of rebuilding.

[Kelly Vance]

 

I know I responded to this on twitter, but I think it's an important point and one worth bringing up for discussion here.

 

Kirilloff isn't walking a lot, but I don't think he "swings at everything" at all. He's got a real good approach at the plate. He knows the strike zone well, but he also knows where he can barrel the bat. As Steve Buhr pointed out in a subsequent tweet, he's able to take a pitch 2 inches off the outside corner and drive doubles and homers the other way. 

 

Of course, if he was hitting .270 instead of .370, this would be a bigger deal...

Seth, that is a great observation. If you want that outside pitch, you will get it...often.  And a step into the pitch but slightly towards the plate moves the sweet spot on the bat a few inches outside on your swing.  Then the "inside out" swing, or what I call the "push away" swing can drive the ball hard the other way because you have moved the sweet spot farther outside on the swing so that you hit it dead solid perfect. Kirilloff has that figured out already. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

Sano, is a real question mark.  Is he another Morrison?  He seems to be regressing instead of getting better.  When he first came up from AA, he was killing the ball and taking his walks but if the ball got in the strike zone he mashed.  Something is off and I don't like were this seems to be headed.

Sano was out of shape after leg surgery. He tried to yank everything 500 feet to left field and lost discipline.   He went down, lost some weight and got back to basics hitting wise.  He is more selective now and not trying to pull everything. Don't get me wrong, he is still a dead pull hitter, but he is looking at more pitches now and leveling off his windmill swing. I think he will settle in and be better for the demotion. Give it time. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

It's hard for me to take Santana's comments seriously after his performance in the wild card game last year.

He relies on his slider and with the middle finger injury he was unable to get it to bite. I appreciate his giving it a try, but maybe we should have started someone else instead of a guy with a hand injury. 

[scottz]

 

"The Twins lost their "beloved closer""? Beloved by whom?   Not by me and I may   qualify as the longest tenured Twins' fan who posts on TD. I have pulled for this franchise continuously since 1954. Fernamdo Rodney was one of my least favorite   Senators/Twins due to his   showboat arrow shooting. 

 

He only does it at the end of the game, correct? Do you also consider it to be showboating when the three outfielders run to center field to jump together (or when Buxton was up, miming a fade away jump shot together)? I'm curious about when something crosses the showboat line for you. Or for anybody else.

[Aerodeliria]

What irritates me is that if Morrison is having hip problems that are affecting his game throughout this season, then why wait until the season is in the dumpster to shut him down? I just don't get that logic at all...Am I missing something here?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It’s baseball. Everyone knows, and has known for years, that teams with sub-.500 records and double digit deficits in the standings move players come the end of July and August. Players who don’t want that to happen to their team should ensure the team isn’t in that position.

To be fair, we didn't have a double-digit deficit when the trades started -- we were 7 games back when the first trade went through. Still not that close, but you can perhaps see how a player like Ervin might think it wasn't as cut-and-dried of a decision as you suggest. (I think Ervin just threw out "10 games back" off the cuff because it was a nice round number, I wouldn't pick on it too much specifically.)

[ashbury]

What irritates me is that if Morrison is having hip problems that are affecting his game throughout this season, then why wait until the season is in the dumpster to shut him down? I just don't get that logic at all...Am I missing something here?

It's not clearcut like a broken femur. First you try therapy on an injury. Then you try rest (he was DL'ed mid-July, right?). Surgery's the last resort, and you prefer to put that to the off-season. With the team in sell-mode, that choice was finally faced, sooner than later for the benefit of the player.

 

I give the player props for playing through, rather than making a public issue of it. That effort has to stop at some point, where management (at some level in the org) makes the call, on behalf of the player, for the good of the team. But until the manager is told by the player "I can't go", it remains a judgement call - are they better off with their first choice playing only at 85% (realize that such "percentages" result in a steeper than linear dropoff in actual production), or their backup plan at that position or role.

 

We can quibble about when it became apparent "it can't get better on its own". I hope people will resist the urge to assume downright malfeasance. This outcome clarified, for me, why they stuck with him as long as they did, through what appeared to us fans to be just a terrible slump.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

What irritates me is that if Morrison is having hip problems that are affecting his game throughout this season, then why wait until the season is in the dumpster to shut him down? I just don't get that logic at all...Am I missing something here?

I guess the thinking was, there wasn't a better alternative earlier than to hope Morrison comes around. But I agree, I probably would have used it as an opportunity to shake things up no later than mid-June somehow.

[Doomtints]

I'm skeptical that Morrison was injured "all season" without any of us hearing about it at any time. Was there any point in the past six months that a journalist asked him how he was feeling? I'd love to know his response.

 

If he was injured all year, the Twins gave up the opportunity cost of having someone in his place who would have almost certainly hit better... Vargas or any number of other guys at AAA. Seems like a strange choice for an organization to make for a guy who clearly can't play.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm skeptical that Morrison was injured "all season" without any of us hearing about it at any time. Was there any point in the past six months that a journalist asked him how he was feeling? I'd love to know his response.

Well, he was placed on the DL for this back in July, at which time he said it was "kind of a chronic thing" (as diagnosed by the physician Dr. Dre, I am sure ).

 

https://www.twincities.com/2018/07/12/minor-hip-injury-lands-twins-morrison-on-10-day-dl/

 

“Pretty minor,” Morrison said before Minnesota opened a four-game series against the Tampa Bay Rays at Target Field. “Just aggravation … kind of a chronic thing that’s been going on. A little rest, some medicine, it should be fine.”

 

 

[twinssouth]

"The Twins lost their "beloved closer""? Beloved by whom?   Not by me and I may   qualify as the longest tenured Twins' fan who posts on TD. I have pulled for this franchise continuously since 1954. Fernamdo Rodney was one of my least favorite   Senators/Twins due to his   showboat arrow shooting.

 

 

 

 

 

Tarheelstwinfan, you got me beat. I’ve been a faithful follower since 1960. I still remember 1st game at old Met. Also agree with you on F. Rodney.

[ChrisKnutson]

Not sure. Erasmo Ramirez might be a better bet for Seattle right now? He just shut out Houston for 5 innings yesterday, on 79 pitches. (He's working his way back from injury himself.)

 

But yeah, if another starter gets hurt for them, they could come calling. Or if Ervin finally shows some better stuff.

 

And honestly, if it's just to plug a hole as a 5th starter somewhere, and they don't care about putting Ervin in their postseason rotation, the August 31st deadline wouldn't really matter either.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I were Dipoto I’d make a trade for Santana, not only because of the name value, but the fact that Seattle needs all the help they can get (it’s called depth). Also, Erv’s health “issue” isn’t, and shouldn’t be, comparable to Erasmo Ramirez’s shoulder woes.

 

Besides, Erv’s finger and performance should only get better with each and every start removed from surgery.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Maybe I’m wrong, but I were Dipoto I’d make a trade for Santana, not only because of the name value, but the fact that Seattle needs all the help they can get (it’s called depth).

Maybe they're looking at Ervin, and Shields, and Estrada, etc. Acquiring one might preclude acquiring a different one, so they probably can take some time to evaluate. If it's just depth, and Erasmo Ramirez is capable of similar production at the moment, it's not exactly urgent to acquire one of the other guys.

 

FWIW, they could probably use bullpen help too, especially if Ramirez is starting, and they apparently passed on claiming Rodney just a few days ago. So I am not quite sure what parameters they are working under.

 

 

Besides, Erv’s finger and performance should only get better with each and every start removed from surgery.

Is it? That's not what I've been reading here. Things aren't always so simple and linear.

[ChrisKnutson]

Maybe they're looking at Ervin, and Shields, and Estrada, etc. Acquiring one might preclude acquiring a different one, so they probably can take some time to evaluate. If it's just depth, and Erasmo Ramirez is capable of similar production at the moment, it's not exactly urgent to acquire one of the other guys.

 

FWIW, they could probably use bullpen help too, especially if Ramirez is starting, and they apparently passed on claiming Rodney just a few days ago. So I am not quite sure what parameters they are working under.

 

 

 

Is it? That's not what I've been reading here. Things aren't always so simple and linear.

Well, Ervin is playing for the Twins, so that could also explain his performance as of late...

 

Also, maybe the M’s passed on Rodney because they’re looking for a middle reliever like Reed, as well as preparing to move Ramirez to the bullpen.

[Minfidel]

Beloved by apothecaries and dispensers of indigestion powders. 

"The Twins lost their "beloved closer""? Beloved by whom?   Not by me and I may   qualify as the longest tenured Twins' fan who posts on TD. I have pulled for this franchise continuously since 1954. Fernamdo Rodney was one of my least favorite   Senators/Twins due to his   showboat arrow shooting. 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Also, maybe the M’s passed on Rodney because they’re looking for a middle reliever like Reed, as well as preparing to move Ramirez to the bullpen.

FWIW, Oakland claimed Rodney for middle relief. The M's picked up Colome for middle relief earlier this year too.

 

I am not an expert on their roster, of course -- it could certainly be that they just want a starter. But Ervin doesn't look particularly appealing yet.

[Nick Nelson]

 

Well, he was placed on the DL for this back in July, at which time he said it was "kind of a chronic thing" (as diagnosed by the physician Dr. Dre, I am sure ).

This was tremendous. 

[Ben Noble]

 

I'm not sure if the motivation particularly matters. If an act is "flashy" and frequent enough, I think it can qualify as showboating, regardless of its motivation.

 

Is it showboating when a player makes the sign of the cross, fist bumps his chest, kisses that fist, then points and looks skyward?

 

Rhetorical question maybe, and I'm certainly not picking on you...

[ChrisKnutson]

FWIW, Oakland claimed Rodney for middle relief. The M's picked up Colome for middle relief earlier this year too.

 

I am not an expert on their roster, of course -- it could certainly be that they just want a starter. But Ervin doesn't look particularly appealing yet.

Maybe they passed due to Rodney’s reputation as a pitcher.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Is it showboating when a player makes the sign of the cross, fist bumps his chest, kisses that fist, then points and looks skyward?

Probably not on its own, no. (Keep in mind I have no problem with Rodney.)

 

Although it would be refreshing to see a ballplayer point down to the ground for a change, acknowledging the contributions of Hades and the underworld.

[Fritzderkat]

I just made a post on one of yesterday's threads, which I'm sure is now lost to history, but I think it applies here as well so I'll paraphrase.

I said earlier "the pieces weren't there" less in agreement with Santana's comment but to my own way of thinking and that is that even if the Twins had kept everybody they traded, or even if Santana and Castro had been healthy and Polanco available, they were still without Buxton and Sano at anywhere near optimal performance and as it turned out were 'stuck' with Lynn, Morrison and Reed. I don't know how anyone here could realistically consider that roster as potential contender--not even in the weak-teat AL Central where even a sub-performing Cleveland team was able to hold them off most of the season without any sort of a serious threat.

The 2018 Twins as structured were not a playoff-caliber team, nor were they in 2017 (despite their sneaking in as a Wild Card), not when you compared them with the perennially few legitimate contenders, and in my opinion the "pieces" for that haven't been there, certainly not the right ones or enough of them, for most of the past 30 years.

So, go ahead and beat me with a stick, preferably something less than a 34-oz. Slugger.

[h2oface]

 

I know this has been discussed before, but I don’t consider honoring his grandfather as showboating. That said, he wasn’t my least favorite Twin, but I could barely watch when he came in to pitch.

 

The whole idea of honoring his grandfather..... great. For a couple times. For a season, maybe, although even that is a bit excessive. But now, I believe, that is just his excuse to get in his trademark. He can say he is still honoring his grandfather, but that ship has sailed. Now it is only about his trademark, like the crooked hat, no matter what he spins he gives it. You don't do a 21 gun salute everyday, or every time you do your job instead of blowing the game. How many times does it take before the "honoring" becomes so redundant that it has no point?

[h2oface]

 

It's not clearcut like a broken femur. First you try therapy on an injury. Then you try rest (he was DL'ed mid-July, right?). Surgery's the last resort, and you prefer to put that to the off-season. With the team in sell-mode, that choice was finally faced, sooner than later for the benefit of the player.

 

I give the player props for playing through, rather than making a public issue of it. That effort has to stop at some point, where management (at some level in the org) makes the call, on behalf of the player, for the good of the team. But until the manager is told by the player "I can't go", it remains a judgement call - are they better off with their first choice playing only at 85% (realize that such "percentages" result in a steeper than linear dropoff in actual production), or their backup plan at that position or role.

 

We can quibble about when it became apparent "it can't get better on its own". I hope people will resist the urge to assume downright malfeasance. This outcome clarified, for me, why they stuck with him as long as they did, through what appeared to us fans to be just a terrible slump.

 

What has not be said yet is exactly when it started. It seems like he had it over the off season, and entered his contract with it at its beginnings. He says he has been dealing with it all year. I wonder if he would have made it through Baltimore's physical? It would be really nice to know the inception, and not just the standard spin that seems to be happening now. I am not doubting he has a problem, and has had a problem and it has affected his play, but I am really interested in knowing when it started, exactly, and if it was disclosed then, and if he carried it over from last season and the off season.

[ashbury]

What has not be said yet is exactly when it started.

You injure something, you nurse it along, it's some amount better, then you tweak it again. Lather rinse repeat. I don't know if it necessarily is something that even had an "exact" start, as far as having an effect on him goes. It could have been progressive, or something fluctuating. Athletes deal with this a lot - no press releases are usually issued.

 

Treat LoMo's good weeks as evidence, lacking other info. (Not that many to look at. )

[h2oface]

 

What irritates me is that if Morrison is having hip problems that are affecting his game throughout this season, then why wait until the season is in the dumpster to shut him down? I just don't get that logic at all...Am I missing something here?

 

Aerodeliria? By The Loud Family off the release, Plants and Birds and Rocks and Things?

[mlhouse]

Trying to figure out how Lewis' progress through the minors makes Carlos Correa's look sluggish.  Correa played A+ ball as a 19 year old in 2014, same level as Lewis at the same age.  

 

But we will see if Lewis plays for the Twins as a 20 year old.  Correa jumped to AAA to start the 2015 season as a 20 year old, then was called up by Houston and had 432 plate appearances that season.

 

Most likely, the Twins will continue their conservative approach, despite losing, and Lewis will go to AA next season, AAA perhaps the following with a 2020 debut during the season.  IF that happens, you can see the difference between the Twins approach and successful MLB team's approaches.

[Kelly Vance]

 

Is it showboating when a player makes the sign of the cross, fist bumps his chest, kisses that fist, then points and looks skyward?

 

Rhetorical question maybe, and I'm certainly not picking on you...

Ben, I always thought it was showboating when you disrespected someone or did a "look at me" gesture. 

Yeah, the arrow qualifies in my book. But Batista's bat flip and Rickie Henderson picking up a base are clear examples.

 

My favorite saying about Reggie:    "There ain't enough mustard in the world for that hot dog."