Article: The Rise and Fall of Miguel Sano

[ewen21]

 

Does this mean those of us that were suggesting Sano's efforts were less than disarable a few weeks ago can go back to doing so without getting warning messages from mods? 

 

Not really sarcasm.

In my 52 years on this Earth I have been in and out of shape. When I was in shape I looked like I was in shape. Why? Because I put in the work with diet and exercise.
When I was out of shape I looked like I was out of shape. Why? Because I got lazy in the area of diet and exercise and I in every case I readily admitted it to anyone when I got on the topic.

 

I am sure there are a lot of people like me here who have been through this and understand that forgetting about conditioning and diet affects how we feel, our appearance and what we are capable of doing physically (in Sano's case it probably affects his swing mechanics, attitude and overall ability). If this calls into question his character then so be it.  He has five to six months of offseason and he is a 25 year old professional athlete.  IN this day and age you have to keep up with your peers, many of whom work out and get in amazing shape during the offseason.

This is a fixable thing.  He can change.,

[Jerr]

 

Does this mean those of us that were suggesting Sano's efforts were less than disarable a few weeks ago can go back to doing so without getting warning messages from mods? 

 

Not really sarcasm.

I was one and it was months ago, nice to see some others come around. The Twins did with Sano exactly what they should have earlier. I just hope, it's not too late

[ewen21]

 

I might demote Kepler also at this point. Promote Wade and give him and Cave shots.... See what you have.

This whole thing is a real downer.

I would be down with that if Wade actually deserved a shot.  He isn't remotely in that area as of today

[gocgo]

Cave is the replacement for Grossman.  He can play all 3 outfield positions addequately.  Grossman can not.

 

Regarding Sano, when the coach stops yelling at you, that's when you are in trouble.  It means he's given up on you.  The fact that we sent Sano down to A ball should be a very loud scream to him, but it means we haven't given up on him.  He will come back stronger or he will not be back.  No point in trading him, the return would not outweigh the potential.

[ewen21]

 

I was one and it was months ago, nice to see some others come around. The Twins did with Sano exactly what they should have earlier. I just hope, it's not too late

 

Anyone with two eyes and one serving of experience in life could have discerned this problem.  The idea that this issue had nothing to do with his hitting was a big time assumption.  There was an assumption that his conditioning was not the issue, but rather it was mechanics.  Well let me tell you, conditioning effects one's attitude and ability to execute the hitting mechanics necessary to be successful.  When we are talking about the hardest thing to do in sports it could mean only two clicks on the dial off kilter. To shut down conditioning as a possible root cause would be ignorant.  The Twins commented on this right away and they are belatedly doing something about it.  Oh well

[kusko_andy]

The fact that for a period of time Buxton and Sano were the #1 and #3 prospects in all of baseball, and that now #1 just can't hit Big League pitching and #3 just can't figure out how to be a pro is about the most maddening and unbelievable turn of events in what has been a long and mostly frustrating career as a Twins fan.

[alarp33]

 

I agree on Morrison and Grossman.  They should go first. I'm concerned d that keeping Kepler up now may retard his development because he is getting used by MLB pitching. He's .175/.267/.301 in the last 30 games so we're beyond the small sample size problem. He just isn't getting any better and I would still argue that he's regressing. There's nothing that's happening recently that suggest he's going to come out of this funk. 

 

Let's cut to the real problem - replace any of these guys with who exactly?  No one at AAA is doing that great except for Astudillo (replacement for Wilson?) and Ryan LaMarre who we've already seen. Promoting Gordon and/or Wade would have to be based on their AA showing.  They both are having trouble at AAA.  Granite looks over matched at AAA, and looked over matched with the Twins last year, so he's not a realistic option. Carter is 31 and not hitting and even Vargas isn't hitting in Rochester. 

 

Bottom line, I think we should send Kepler down because I think it would be good for HIM to work on things in a lower pressure environment, not because there's someone waiting in the wings that deserves a shot. I say we lose Motter when Polanco comes back and I'm 50/50 on replacing Morrison and Grossman with some combination of Astudillo, LaMarre, Wade, Vargas or Gordon. Frankly, all the options are pretty pathetic.    

 

30 games is absolutely still a small sample size. Also in that 30 day period his K rate and BB rate are nearly perfectly in line with career averages, but his BABIP is around .100 points lower

Edited June 27, 2018 by alarp33

[djvang]

Sano doesn't seem to care about his lack of performance or his weight. He's made enough money to go back to the DR and live like a king for the rest of his life. He seems satisfied with that. But the specter of David Ortiz hangs over him. Out-of-shape, oft-injured, under-performing guy gets dumped and comes back to haunt the team that dumped him. If the jolt of getting sent back to Class A doesn't change him maybe getting released or traded will.

 

Buxton on the other hand seems to care too much. Lack of performance eats him up. If only their attitudes could be merged.

[gocgo]

 

THere was a lot of blowback about "questioning his character" when people made the observation that Sano was out of shape a few months ago.  Can that please stop?  YOu don't get out of shape working hard and being a go-getter.  I wasn't watching him this winter, but I will bet he lived a little too high on the hog this past winter and who can blame him?  He grew up with nothing and now he's enjoying the spoils of a life in the major leagues.  At least half of this is on the Twins.

 

Remember when he got suspended for the home run trot back when he was in New Britain?  I always thought it was more about other things than him taking his time rounding the bases after a home run.  The Twins went out of their way to make a point to him for "not respecting the game" as an indirect way to send a message to him about other areas of his game.  Heaven forbid they call him out for his work ethic, or lack of a decent one.  You do that and you become someone with as much status as a Trump supporter.

 

What is wrong with saying the kid needs to refocus and work harder?  What is wrong with telling the kid that he lost his way?  I was in my early 20s once and I needed some people to get in my face in order to keep me on the path.  No shame in that.

We kind of go out of our way on this board of avoiding political talk.  Please respect that.

[Fritzderkat]

Dump Sano and leave Buxton in the minors until such time (if ever) he can verify that in tearing it up over an established period of time he has absolutely earned another shot at major league pitching. If he doesn't, dump him, too.

I can remember a time when with Sano, Buxton and (as a sort of after-thought) Eddie Rosario, they were considered the core of what many were calling the best minor league system in baseball--or at least one at the head of the class in potential. Twins fans patiently hung their hats on that promise. Now they're left with this.

[Shane Wahl]

Sorry, but he never should have been demoted. The whole thing with him is stupid.

[Monkeypaws]

Well, look at the bright side - neither were given an extension when they were looking like the next big thing.

 

They have it all to work for.

[USAFChief]

Sorry, but he never should have been demoted. The whole thing with him is stupid.

Just let him flail away?

[Number3]

Miguel Sano is from a country where the average "worker" wage is about $200.00/month. He is given a signing bonus of $3mil+ and has been paid close to 5mil total counting low-mid 6 figure salary. As such he is already set for life in his home country and will always be a star there. So the real question is, what are his priorities and how much does desire does he have to excel in MLB if he actually has to work for it?

 

No more complicated than that.

 

Making the Twins great again lol.

[Loosey]

If it weren't for the Indians struggling earlier this year this year could already be "total system failure" part 2.  That being said the Indians have won 7 of their last 9 and the Twins are falling rapidly in the standings.  So by mid-July if things haven't changed this will be part 2.

[Squirrel]

 

 

 

What is wrong with saying the kid needs to refocus and work harder?  What is wrong with telling the kid that he lost his way?  I was in my early 20s once and I needed some people to get in my face in order to keep me on the path.  No shame in that.

Nothing at all. But that's not what was being said. What was being said was he needed to stop feeding at the buffet trough and he needed to stop being lazy and he needed to stop just expecting things to happen. Those types of character issues questions are out of bounds, because those are all speculative and disrespectful and, frankly, not helpful in finding solutions. But saying needs to refocus and figure it out and be in better condition ... absolutely. And that's what he's in Fort Myers to do. Maybe there are other issues at hand with his level of discipline, both in diet and workouts, that do feed into what he needs to change (no pun intended with the word 'feed') ... but I think those can be addressed without outright being disrespectful by saying things that I mentioned above without painting the most negative picture of his personal character.

[Squirrel]

 

Sorry, but he never should have been demoted. The whole thing with him is stupid.

Again I'll ask ... why do you think this? I'm seriously asking ... why do you think this is stupid?

[Number3]

You are right; it can't possibly be stupid given the geniuses that run the Minnesota Twins. Only those with a true vision into the future and insight unknown to mere mortals does this move to A Ball where the competition will bring out his true ability appreciate this make sense.

 

Unfortunately, if he hits .500 and 1 home run every 6 ABs, what does it prove? If he flops at A Ball, then what? If/when he comes back up what route does he take, straight back to the Majors or AA, AAA then majors? Then, how long of a leash once he gets back up? "Well, he has to get used to Major League pitching". (Paul Molitor or replacement. Aug. 10, 2018).

[Jerr]

 

The fact that for a period of time Buxton and Sano were the #1 and #3 prospects in all of baseball, and that now #1 just can't hit Big League pitching and #3 just can't figure out how to be a pro is about the most maddening and unbelievable turn of events in what has been a long a mostly frustrating career as a Twins fan.

Especially with all their hype before even in the MLB.

[Ncgo4]

All this talk about “speculation” about Sano’s character being out of line is correct. Let’s stick with facts. He’s a way, way over weight young man. That’s a very bad thing. It affects were, if anywhere, he’ll be able to play in the field. It’s been the situation for several years. He’s now suffered a major injury and has a metal rod in his leg. This exacerbates his weight issue.

 

What’s Sano going to do about it? We don’t know, but the Twins have gotten him into the best possible situation in which he can get his life under control. Let’s hope he does so, but it will not take too much time to figure ou haw he’d doing.

 

Bottom line a 325 lb DH’er that smacks 40 dingers a year with 100 rbi’s Isn’t a bad thing. But a 225 lb all star 3rd basemen with a rocket arm is a whole lot better. Both are better than a 375 lb 26 year old former MLB player living in this DR.

 

Right now I have no idea which he will choose to be.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Sano doesn't seem to care about his lack of performance or his weight. He's made enough money to go back to the DR and live like a king for the rest of his life. He seems satisfied with that. But the specter of David Ortiz hangs over him. Out-of-shape, oft-injured, under-performing guy gets dumped and comes back to haunt the team that dumped him. If the jolt of getting sent back to Class A doesn't change him maybe getting released or traded will.

 

Buxton on the other hand seems to care too much. Lack of performance eats him up. If only their attitudes could be merged.

 

You don't know any of this.  This is the kind of post about Sano that really bothers me.  Buxton too.

 

You know nothing about them as young men, what they think, what they care about, and how they work.  Criticizing them as people like that is quite reprehensible IMO.

[h2oface]

 

The fact that for a period of time Buxton and Sano were the #1 and #3 prospects in all of baseball, and that now #1 just can't hit Big League pitching and #3 just can't figure out how to be a pro is about the most maddening and unbelievable turn of events in what has been a long and mostly frustrating career as a Twins fan.

 

#1 can't handle AAA pitching so far this year, either. And #3 can't handle high A yet, either. Oh... but let us be kind...... it is a small sample size.... 

 

Personally, I think they both just need better, more effective coaching at the MLB level. That is the pitching they need to learn to hit.

[h2oface]

 

Nothing at all. But that's not what was being said. What was being said was he needed to stop feeding at the buffet trough and he needed to stop being lazy and he needed to stop just expecting things to happen. Those types of character issues questions are out of bounds, because those are all speculative and disrespectful and, frankly, not helpful in finding solutions. But saying needs to refocus and figure it out and be in better condition ... absolutely. And that's what he's in Fort Myers to do. Maybe there are other issues at hand with his level of discipline, both in diet and workouts, that do feed into what he needs to change (no pun intended with the word 'feed') ... but I think those can be addressed without outright being disrespectful by saying things that I mentioned above without painting the most negative picture of his personal character.

 

Two ways to virtually say the same thing. Respect is a judgement. One that doesn't focus.... is lazy. One way uses imagery, and the other seems to come from a suit and tie. But they both say the same thing.

[h2oface]

 

This forum isn't really the place for political jabs, all over there are high class decent people supporting Trump.  As someone who detested him when elected, I'm now a 100% supporter...make that 99% but still. 

 .... but let me (you) take this opportunity to be political? hmmm... especially when it is total pat on the back opinion.

 

Perhaps The Sports Bar forum is the place to discuss this high class?

http://twinsdaily.com/forum/12-the-sports-bar/

[Squirrel]

 

Two ways to virtually say the same thing. Respect is a judgement. One that doesn't focus.... is lazy. One way uses imagery, and the other seems to come from a suit and tie. But they both say the same thing.

If they say the same thing, then be respectful in your posting here and don't go the disrespectful route. That was the pushback.

[yarnivek1972]

I disagree, but OK , let's look at the season as a whole. 255 ABs, .220/.308/.400 (.708). Or go back to 2017, 511 ABs - .235/.309/.424 (.734). Or 2016, 396 ABs - .243/.312/.425 (.737). Or his career, 1169 ABS, .234/.309/.417 (.727). I wish/hope Max makes it as much as the next guy but the empirical evidence is that he was a below average and below replacement level hitter in 2016 and he has gotten Worse since then, not better. His defense is above average, which helps, but not a whole lot. He turned 25 in February so there's still a chance he'll become an average or better MLB player but he simply isn't close to that now.

 

I wouldn't give up on Kepler but the question is where and how do you develop him so he improves. It's not happening at the MLB level. Makes one wonder if a trip to AAA or even AA (wherever the instruction is better) might be in order. Keeping him where he is hasn't worked for the last 2.5 seasons and seems unlikely to work in the future.

I wish I could explain Kepler. He isn’t striking out at a rate anywhere close to Sano or Buxton. He’s hitting line drives at MLB average rate. His BABIP is horrendously low. This year and career wise. I suspect shifts, but I wish someone with more knowledge and who is better at interpreting data could confirm or offer another explanation. Not hitting into shifts I think would be fixable at the MLB level. He made tremendous strides hitting lhp at the MLB level.

[djvang]

 

You don't know any of this.  This is the kind of post about Sano that really bothers me.  Buxton too.

 

You know nothing about them as young men, what they think, what they care about, and how they work.  Criticizing them as people like that is quite reprehensible IMO.

That's why I said "seem". I stated it as an opinion based on my observations, not as a fact. If   that isn't allowed please let me know.

Edited June 27, 2018 by djvang

[Thrylos]

Too much drama regarding the performance of a 25 year old in 37 games of an injury plagued season and , esp. since Golden Boy hit .234/.271/.332, .265 wOBA, 63 wRC+ in his age 25 season (much worse than Sano, FWIW)

 

Same with Buxton btw.

 

Too.Much.Drama.  And way too often regarding Sano.  Seems that there is a weekly let's ditch Sano article regurgitating the same things, as if Sano were all that is wrong with the Twins right now.

 

Certain people must be auditioning to be the next Souhan or Reusse...

Edited June 27, 2018 by Thrylos

[Mr. Brooks]

Too much drama regarding the performance of a 25 year old in 37 games of an injury plagued season and , esp. since Golden Boy hit .234/.271/.332, .265 wOBA, 63 wRC+ in his age 25 season (much worse than Sano, FWIW)

 

Same with Buxton btw.

 

Too.Much.Drama. And way too often regarding Sano. Seems that there is a weekly let's ditch Sano article regurgitating the same things, as if Sano were all that is wrong with the Twins right now.

 

Certain people must be auditioning to be the next Souhan or Reusse...

Where did the article suggest ditching Sano?

[yarnivek1972]

Too much drama regarding the performance of a 25 year old in 37 games of an injury plagued season and , esp. since Golden Boy hit .234/.271/.332, .265 wOBA, 63 wRC+ in his age 25 season (much worse than Sano, FWIW)

 

Same with Buxton btw.

 

Too.Much.Drama. And way too often regarding Sano. Seems that there is a weekly let's ditch Sano article regurgitating the same things, as if Sano were all that is wrong with the Twins right now.

 

Certain people must be auditioning to be the next Souhan or Reusse...

Are you suggesting that his success or failure isn’t directly tied to the success or failure of the franchise as a whole? Perhaps the reason so much is written about him is because he is THAT important to this franchise.