Jorge Polanco Update

[alarp33]

 

Gordon is not a shortstop.  Sano is a third baseman

 

Gordon is a middle infielder, maybe SS, maybe 2B. Unfortunately none of the current options for next year are good defenders at SS

 

Sano is not a passable 3rd baseman, and will not be the regular 3rd baseman in MN next year, which is what this discussion was about

[Major League Ready]

 

I didn't say spend less than what's available. I think they can spend it all and include an infielder like Escobar, that's all. That won't make our roster equal to NYY or BOS, but neither will reallocating $10 million from Escobar.

 

What's the plan. There is no logic, no substance, and your concern seems to be that they expend their entire budget. I see no thought as to how we build an actual contender. Building a contender is not done by looking at the immediate term, a single player or position or ONLY next year. I would be just fine if they spent half the money on Machado or as close as possible to that type of player and then used the other half of the money in 2020 after giving Romero, Gonsalves, Mejia, Busenitz, Jay and Gordon a chance to prove themselves at the ML level. 

[ThejacKmp]

 

I'm steering away from the original topic of this thread. The Twins should be desperate for a star. I don't care if it takes $45+ million. Do whatever it takes to get a star like Machado on board.

 

I think it's amazing that people (not Vanimal specifically) who have criticized Mauer's contract for years and talked about how it's held back the Twins (it hasn't BTW) now want to replace it with another massive contract.

 

I don't think Machado's a terrible idea but I also don't think he's what puts the Twins over the top. The Twins need to be patient with the still-young-but-not-that-young Sano and Buxton and trust that the rest of this year/next year will be better. The future is still exceedingly bright, despite the doom and gloom of the TD boards.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Gordon is a middle infielder, maybe SS, maybe 2B. Unfortunately none of the current options for next year are good defenders at SS

 

Sano is not a passable 3rd baseman, and will not be the regular 3rd baseman in MN next year, which is what this discussion was about

 

Where are we getting that Sano is not a passable third baseman? He's seemed fairly decent there. Not above average or anything but great arm, passable lateral range, decent range coming in, good effort. It's at the plate he's struggled. If he had a .900 OPS no one would be worried about his ability to play 3B.

 

Do you have any statistics to show that Sano is not a passable third baseman or is this just a hot take? Because otherwise we should go with the Twins professional coaching staff and minor league system who have repeatedly insisted that Sano is an acceptable third baseman.

 

You have to prove what you say, not just say it.

[ThejacKmp]

 

What's the plan. There is no logic, no substance, and your concern seems to be that they expend their entire budget. I see no thought as to how we build an actual contender. Building a contender is not done by looking at the immediate term, a single player or position or ONLY next year. I would be just fine if they spent half the money on Machado or as close as possible to that type of player and then used the other half of the money in 2020 after giving Romero, Gonsalves, Mejia, Busenitz, Jay and Gordon a chance to prove themselves at the ML level. 

 

The Twins should be taking the money they spend and investing it in contract extensions. Sano and Buxton, this offseason. Take a shot, only one has to go off for it to be worth it. Get Berrios inked. Take a shot at guys like Polanco, Romero, etc.

 

Machado would be okay except that he wants to play short and isn't any good at it. Not going to break the bank for it and some big market team is going to.

[Major League Ready]

 

The Twins should be taking the money they spend and investing it in contract extensions. Sano and Buxton, this offseason. Take a shot, only one has to go off for it to be worth it. Get Berrios inked. Take a shot at guys like Polanco, Romero, etc.

 

Machado would be okay except that he wants to play short and isn't any good at it. Not going to break the bank for it and some big market team is going to.

I agree completely on Machado. Here is a long shot and we will be bidding against teams with considerably more revenue. The point is as much that his age, physical condition, and history of staying on the field make him less risky than most of the contracts exceeding 5 years. The fact that he is a position player is also less risky.

 

I was definitely on-board with extending Buxton last off-season but he has been horrible offensively to the point where is defensive value is being off-set by his offensive ineptitude. I would not be making him our center fielder for the next several years until he proves a reasonable level of hit tool.

 

Sano I would not even consider at this point. His inability or lack of desire to make any adjustments in his approach is a real concern. It sure looks like he has one thought in ever at bat which is to hit it in the upper deck in left field regardless of the game situation. His physique is also a major concern. It would be different if he showed up in great shape but thus far he has shown no willingness to work on his physical conditioning. Not a good bet long-term.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

What's the plan. There is no logic, no substance, and your concern seems to be that they expend their entire budget. I see no thought as to how we build an actual contender. Building a contender is not done by looking at the immediate term, a single player or position or ONLY next year. I would be just fine if they spent half the money on Machado or as close as possible to that type of player and then used the other half of the money in 2020 after giving Romero, Gonsalves, Mejia, Busenitz, Jay and Gordon a chance to prove themselves at the ML level. 

Can we stop right here with the "no logic, no substance" stuff? We can disagree without that kind of commentary.

 

All I said was that I think we could potentially use Escobar on a short term, ~$10 mil annual deal, and it wouldn't really preclude upgrading other areas at the same time given our budget. You seem to be treating this as some sort of wild, controversial idea, and I don't know why.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but your suggestion seems to be, go after Machado while simultaneously cutting payroll by ~$30 mil? Is that right? If so, I'm going to have to disagree about the wisdom of that, to say nothing of the feasibility.

[Major League Ready]

 

Can we stop right here with the "no logic, no substance" stuff? We can disagree without that kind of commentary.

 

All I said was that I think we could potentially use Escobar on a short term, ~$10 mil annual deal, and it wouldn't really preclude upgrading other areas at the same time given our budget. You seem to be treating this as some sort of wild, controversial idea, and I don't know why.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but your suggestion seems to be, go after Machado while simultaneously cutting payroll by ~$30 mil? Is that right? If so, I'm going to have to disagree about the wisdom of that, to say nothing of the feasibility.

My post / commentary was not directed specifically at you or your post but the countless posts of a similar nature. Decisions to spend tens of millions of dollars are made in a fashion so grossly different than often depicted here that some of these posts boggles my mind. The contract you suggest is trivial is probably close to 10% of the payroll for entire 25 man roster. That decision has considerable consequence to the organization. An organization of any substance does not make those kinds of decisions because they have the budget,

 

In most cases, the analysis of a 40M expenditure contains a thorough examination of any viable alternatives. The summary of the options compared every aspect of the alternatives and supporting documentation is provided to validate any calculations and assumptions.  So, when you speak of spending somewhere between $30M and $45M you should have better justification than they have the money. I realize this is all just for fun but it’s incredibly insulting to the organization when you suggest the organization is second rate because they exercise due diligence when spending 10s of millions. 

 

Your conclusions about my Machado posts is also way off. It has nothing to do with cutting payroll. The entire point was this team has virtually no chance of being a legit contender in the next 2-3 years without adding impact talent. We have roughly $60M in payroll opening up but we also need to replace Mauer, Dozier, Sanatana, and Lynn. The point is what’s the smartest way to amass the necessary talent to contend? Machado is just an example. The real points is that If Escobar can be replaced by Gordon or Polanco, it is a poor decision to keep him when we have several other holes where the money would net a greater result.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I realize this is all just for fun

Judging from the rest of your post, I strongly disagree that you realize this.

 

I am bowing out of this particular discussion, so please no need to reply further to me.

[yarnivek1972]

Where are we getting that Sano is not a passable third baseman? He's seemed fairly decent there. Not above average or anything but great arm, passable lateral range, decent range coming in, good effort. It's at the plate he's struggled. If he had a .900 OPS no one would be worried about his ability to play 3B.

 

Do you have any statistics to show that Sano is not a passable third baseman or is this just a hot take? Because otherwise we should go with the Twins professional coaching staff and minor league system who have repeatedly insisted that Sano is an acceptable third baseman.

 

You have to prove what you say, not just say it.

 

Here’s 2017.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=3b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=350&type=1&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=24,d

 

Sano is a negative rated fielder.

 

I’ll let you change it to 2018. I’m having phone issues. But he’s second to last this year. Rated by over 200 innings.

 

Yes, he is one of the worst fielding third basemen in MLB.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Here’s 2017.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=3b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=350&type=1&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=24,d

Sano is a negative rated fielder.

I’ll let you change it to 2018. I’m having phone issues. But he’s second to last this year. Rated by over 200 innings.

Yes, he is one of the worst fielding third basemen in MLB.

 

2018 is a small sample size but lets go with 2017. Slightly below average. That's passable to me, especially if he hits like the Miguel Sano of yore. Alas he did not do this.

 

Again, if he had a .900 OPS no one would complain about his fielding.

 

In the end a player is the sum of his parts. Sano's a passable 3B defensively and has enormous value at the position if he's hitting. If he's not, then the defense doesn't pass muster. Kind of the opposite of Buxton.

[scottz]

Just to get this thread back towards the title:

 

Jorge Polanco - 4 games, 6 for 13, 1 HR, 1 3B, 2 BB, 2 K, .462/.533/.846 (1.379 OPS).

[Major League Ready]

 

2018 is a small sample size but lets go with 2017. Slightly below average. That's passable to me, especially if he hits like the Miguel Sano of yore. Alas he did not do this.

 

Again, if he had a .900 OPS no one would complain about his fielding.

 

In the end a player is the sum of his parts. Sano's a passable 3B defensively and has enormous value at the position if he's hitting. If he's not, then the defense doesn't pass muster. Kind of the opposite of Buxton.

 

Agree + what if this wake up call results in a 250 lbs or even 240 version of Sano. What if he does a "Kevin Love / Shabazz Muhammad and comes back with a transformed body. Could he be a league average 3B in that kind of shape? I would think so but it's obviously speculative.

 

I would be very hopeful for next year if Sano reports to camp at or below 250 and Polanco plays somewhere near the way he did the 2nd half of last year. He was a 2 WAR for the 2nd half. Let's Gordon here for the 2nd half. Get a good look this year a determine what to do with 2B this winter. If Gordon looks good, let Escobar go and invest in a 1B, the bullpen and perhaps a SP dependent upon how Romero, Mejia, and Gonsalves look the rest of the year. Trade Lynn and Santana for whatever you can get to make room for these three to get playing time. I would feel a lot better about our chances next year if we can get 2 of Romero, Mejia, and Gonsalves at least somewhat established this year.

[Mike Sixel]

Agree + what if this wake up call results in a 250 lbs or even 240 version of Sano. What if he does a "Kevin Love / Shabazz Muhammad and comes back with a transformed body. Could he be a league average 3B in that kind of shape? I would think so but it's obviously speculative.

 

I would be very hopeful for next year if Sano reports to camp at or below 250 and Polanco plays somewhere near the way he did the 2nd half of last year. He was a 2 WAR for the 2nd half. Let's Gordon here for the 2nd half. Get a good look this year a determine what to do with 2B this winter. If Gordon looks good, let Escobar go and invest in a 1B, the bullpen and perhaps a SP dependent upon how Romero, Mejia, and Gonsalves look the rest of the year. Trade Lynn and Santana for whatever you can get to make room for these three to get playing time. I would feel a lot better about our chances next year if we can get 2 of Romero, Mejia, and Gonsalves at least somewhat established this year.

All of this. I will feel bad if the front office doesn't do this.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Activated tomorrow

https://www.twincities.com/2018/07/01/suspension-over-jorge-polanco-set-to-return-to-twins/

Who gets DFA’d to make room? Same person comes off 25 man?

[Mike Sixel]

Activated tomorrow

https://www.twincities.com/2018/07/01/suspension-over-jorge-polanco-set-to-return-to-twins/

Who gets DFA’d to make room? Same person comes off 25 man?

Some young player. Need all this great leadership.

[S.]

 

I would be very hopeful for next year if Polanco plays somewhere near the way he did the 2nd half of last year. He was a 2 WAR for the 2nd half.

While I agree it would be very nice, I can't say I'm too confident that he's going to replicate the numbers he was putting up while on PEDs. The likelihood of him ever being a 4 WAR player over a full season is probably close to 0.

[Squirrel]

Some young player. Need all this great leadership.

I would guess Motter.

[operation mindcrime]

I would guess Motter.

Good riddance!

[operation mindcrime]

Just to get this thread back towards the title:

 

Jorge Polanco - 4 games, 6 for 13, 1 HR, 1 3B, 2 BB, 2 K, .462/.533/.846 (1.379 OPS).

Was he facing our pitchers?

[Old Twins Cap]

Well, at least we won't have to worry about Polanco not being available for the post-season.

 

(Cries into his napkin.)

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

I would guess Motter.

Can he be DFA'd while on the DL, or does he need to be activated first? Since it's concussion 7 day, he'd need to pass the test first, right?

[Squirrel]

 

Can he be DFA'd while on the DL, or does he need to be activated first? Since it's concussion 7 day, he'd need to pass the test first, right?

Ahh, yeah ... I guess that's right. Looking at what they might do vs what they should do ... I think then they might remove Astudillo. There are other candidates that should go first, imo ... but this is what I think they would do.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Can he be DFA'd while on the DL, or does he need to be activated first? Since it's concussion 7 day, he'd need to pass the test first, right?

Motter can be DFA'd while on the DL, but I don't think we could pass him through outright waivers to send him to the minors:

 

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3530

 

"If a player on an MLB or minor league Disabled List is placed on Outright Assignment Waivers during the MLB regular season, he must be eligible to be reinstated from the DL and healthy enough to play."

 

Basically, they don't want teams using health/injuries to help pass guys through waivers.

 

Since Motter went on the 7-day DL last Friday, he's not eligible to be reinstated until this Friday.

 

So we'd have to either trade him or more likely release him.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Ahh, yeah ... I guess that's right. Looking at what they might do vs what they should do ... I think then they might remove Astudillo. There are other candidates that should go first, imo ... but this is what I think they would do.

If Astudillo had caught any part over the weekend, I'd say Wilson might be a candidate. Agreed, Motter should be a candidate as well. Astudillo is one of the few position players with options.

[Squirrel]

 

If Astudillo had caught any part over the weekend, I'd say Wilson might be a candidate. Agreed, Motter should be a candidate as well. Astudillo is one of the few position players with options.

If Motter weren't on the DL I'd assume it would be him. Astudillo just provides a lot of flexibility and is a fun player to watch in a dismal season. But ... can't do much with Motter while on the DL and Polanco needs to be added. And they can't wait to add Polanco until Motter comes off the DL. Stupid rules.

[Riverbrian]

 

If Astudillo had caught any part over the weekend, I'd say Wilson might be a candidate. Agreed, Motter should be a candidate as well. Astudillo is one of the few position players with options.

 

I believe it will either Astudillo or Wilson and this is why I'm pissed that Wilson started on Saturday behind the plate. 

 

I know they've seen him work in Rochester behind the plate but Molitor should want to take a look himself. 

 

The fact that he was not given a catching audition this weekend tells me that Astudillo's time with us will be a short one. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I believe it will either Astudillo or Wilson and this is why I'm pissed that Wilson started on Saturday behind the plate. 

 

I know they've seen him work in Rochester behind the plate but Molitor should want to take a look himself. 

 

The fact that he was not given a catching audition this weekend tells me that Astudillo's time with us will be a short one. 

Wilson is almost guaranteed to clear waivers and accept an assignment back to Rochester, though. So there was no urgency to audition Astudillo this weekend -- they can always swap him for Wilson in 2 weeks or whatever.

[Vanimal46]

I believe it will either Astudillo or Wilson and this is why I'm pissed that Wilson started on Saturday behind the plate.

 

I know they've seen him work in Rochester behind the plate but Molitor should want to take a look himself.

 

The fact that he was not given a catching audition this weekend tells me that Astudillo's time with us will be a short one.

Why does Molitor need to look when Austudrillo couldn't hold down the job regularly in Rochester?

 

It may say on his B-Ref page that he plays C but so did Josmil Pinto... Just because it says he plays there doesn't mean he's good at it. And certainly doesn't mean he's an MLB caliber catcher.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Why does Molitor need to look when Austudrillo couldn't hold down the job regularly in Rochester?

It may say on his B-Ref page that he plays C but so did Josmil Pinto... Just because it says he plays there doesn't mean he's good at it. And certainly doesn't mean he's an MLB caliber catcher.

hes caught 250 innings/29 games in Rochester, more than all of the other positions hes played combined - he may not be, but he might be a good enough catcher and hitter, and defensively flexible enough to stick - just give him a chance