The Gardenhire Apocolypse

[greengoblinrulz]

As of right now, I'd say Dave Martinez...

 

1.) comes from the Joe Maddon school in Tampa, but he's coached and been very well respected since his playing days.

 

2.) He had a long and solid, productive career despite rarely being a full-time player. Like Gardy, he understands how difficult this game is and that players make mistakes and errors and such.

 

3.) I want a first-time manager because I don't like retreads.

Just noticed that quote & had to chuckle because of all the disagreements we've had over AAA retreads (which I hate).

[Thrylos]

I believe that what the Pohlads will do is simply bring up the entire Rochester managerial staff but will that work?

 

They will need to add to that. Minor league staff is 3 people: Manager, Pitching Coach, Hitting Coach. In Rochester the manager serves as the 3rd base coach as well. Bruno and Cuellar sit on the bench and usually a player on the DL serves as the first base coach. So, in addition to those 3, you would need 4 more positions at least:

 

- 1B coach

- 3B coach

- Bench coach

- Bullpen coach

[Willihammer]

Earl Weaver

[glunn]

I like the idea of someone from the Tampa Bay organization.

[Craig Arko]

Earl Weaver

 

Maybe they can hire a medium and channel Billy Martin from beyond the grave.

[Willihammer]

Trivial fact: Dave Boswell, who fought Billy in the alley behind a Detroit bar in 1969 (leading to Martin's termination), pitched for Earl Weaver in 1971

[Bark's Lounge]

When the White Sox announced Robin Ventura as their manager, it was somewhat out of Right Field and a surprise. What if Gardy is fired and the Twins pull a shocker of their own, and name Kent Hrbek Manager... what would happen?

[Craig Arko]

Joe Mauer will say "It's The Big Hrbowski."

[lecroy24fan]

Matthew LeCroy

[Pius Jefferson]

Tom Prince

[RIP BYTO]

I am too lazy to look it up, but when was the last time a team with consecutive 99+ loss seasons retained their entire coaching staff?

 

The reason I ask is that I believe the Twins will retain every member of the coaching staff this year.

[Bark's Lounge]

I am too lazy to look it up, but when was the last time a team with consecutive 99+ loss seasons retained their entire coaching staff?

 

The reason I ask is that I believe the Twins will retain every member of the coaching staff this year.

 

I don't know much about gambling, but if you were to place a wager on your prediction and win, I think you still end up in the red.

[Bark's Lounge]

Not that this would be an option for the Twins, but when Greg Maddux is ready to become a coach (if ever) he would be an outstanding candidate for being a manager. He seems to be the kind of guy you take a flyer on without any coaching experience. Maybe Sveum or Gonzalez needs to be looking over their shoulders at this possibility. I Think the Cubs are set in their framework and do not view Sveum as having a disappointing year as manager as Theo and his gang expected this kind of season. ATL on the other hand, if they choke again down the stretch, I could see Maddux defenitely being the replacement to Gonzalez. You would think that would get their fan base ramped up also... just a thought.

[Pius Jefferson]

I'm not sure in the modern era a manager's survived having two 99 loss seasons consecutively, let alone an entire coaching staff.

 

Just a guess on which guesses are likely to be let go or re-assigned.

 

1) Vavra-Bruno is waiting in the wings

2) Liddle

3) Ullger

4) White

5) Anderson-Might be most likely to find another coaching job.

[MightyMpls]

I am too lazy to look it up, but when was the last time a team with consecutive 99+ loss seasons retained their entire coaching staff?

 

The reason I ask is that I believe the Twins will retain every member of the coaching staff this year.

 

That is all I would need to see to cancel my 40 game season ticket plan. Of course they won't tell us that before they ask for the renewal deposit.

[MightyMpls]

Is it too late to throw my hat in the ring that, assuming the don't lose 100 games, that everyone will be brought back next year?

[jctwins]

Jeff Gray, if that's what it takes to get him off the mound.

[DaveW]

I'm not sure in the modern era a manager's survived having two 99 loss seasons consecutively, let alone an entire coaching staff.

 

Just a guess on which guesses are likely to be let go or re-assigned.

 

1) Vavra-Bruno is waiting in the wings

2) Liddle

3) Ullger

4) White

5) Anderson-Might be most likely to find another coaching job.

Why the hell would they fire Vavra? And why is he at the top of the list? Offense hasn't exactly been an issue for the Twins this year, and he is certainly due some of the accolades for Revere and Plouffe's years.

 

Firing Liddle, Ullger or White really doesn't do a whole lot, but I guess if they want to use it to "make a statement" they can. Also, I'm not sure its wise to dump a good pitching coach in Anderson.

 

My guess is one or two of White/Liddle/Ullger will be let go just as an excuse to bring in a little bit of new blood.

[jctwins]

Gone:

 

 

 

 

And shockwaves run through the organization.

[BobAzar]

Billy Heywood. But seriously, I think Redmond would be great.

[jctwins]

Billy Heywood. But seriously, I think Redmond would be great.

 

Can someone please justify the obsession with Redmond other than the fact that we know his name?

[ashbury]

Offense hasn't exactly been an issue for the Twins this year

 

The team is in the bottom half of the league in runs scored per game. It's the starting pitching that has the team on a pace for around 100 losses; but even if the pitching staff had been league-average, we'd be looking at a below-.500 team with the offense that's currently in place.

 

Whether that's cause for bringing Bruno into the coaching mix, or a reflection of the caliber of talent in the 7-8-9 slots of the lineup of most games which Terry Ryan gave them to work with, or tactical choices like starting Butera very much instead of getting another bat in there, isn't my point. But offense has definitely been an issue.

[StormJH1]

I'm not sure in the modern era a manager's survived having two 99 loss seasons consecutively, let alone an entire coaching staff.

 

Just a guess on which guesses are likely to be let go or re-assigned.

 

1) Vavra-Bruno is waiting in the wings

2) Liddle

3) Ullger

4) White

5) Anderson-Might be most likely to find another coaching job.

 

I worry a little bit about the universal man love for Tom Brunansky when the primary motivation for that seems to be that his guys do better in AAA than they are able to do in the bigs (Parmelee). But it's also further proof of this organization's obsession with promoting from within, and the fans certainly play into that when they toss around names of former Twins fan favorites. Aside from the bizarre re-hiring of Terry Ryan (whose own failures planted many of the seeds for Bill Smith to only mess things up more dramatically), hiring and retaining Gardy for so long is as much about holding onto the Tom Kelly era, as opposed to honestly evaluating if he's the best guy to turn things around.

 

Not that I'm saying I'd protest on Target Plaza if they brought Gardy back...I think one more year of this should do the trick. But if they completely clean house EXCEPT for Gardy's buddy Anderson...when arguably it was the PITCHING that got us in this mess more than anything else, then you know they're just acquiescing to Gardy's loyalty.

 

I blame the talent deficit, not the coaches, for the state of the Twins, but this whole organization is developing a "country club"-type vibe, and I don't like it.

[JB_Iowa]

Billy Heywood. But seriously, I think Redmond would be great.

 

Can someone please justify the obsession with Redmond other than the fact that we know his name?

 

I think people remember Redmond's personality and hustle with fondness. Also the skills he developed as a catcher should serve him well as a manager and I do think that he will manage in the bigs some day.

 

Personally I think its to soon for Redmond -- not sure it would be a good idea for him to try to manage players with whom he played (and whom he played behind).

[JB_Iowa]

Aside from the bizarre re-hiring of Terry Ryan (whose own failures planted many of the seeds for Bill Smith to only mess things up more dramatically), hiring and retaining Gardy for so long is as much about holding onto the Tom Kelly era, as opposed to honestly evaluating if he's the best guy to turn things around.

 

I know this thread is supposed to be about Gardenhire not Ryan but I want to address the "bizarre" re-hiring statement. Although I was disappointed in it, I didn't see the re-hiring of Ryan as an interim GM as bizarre. It would have made perfect sense to bring him back for a year and to use that time to hire a GM from outside the organization. Alternatively, it would make sense if he were willing to adopt a "gunslinger" role in which he "played the villain" and did the evaluation, firing, hiring and re-organization that this franchise needs.

 

Alas, I don't think either of those things are happening. We haven't had any indication that he intends to make substantial changes in the way this organization runs (and in who runs it) and we haven't seen any indication that he intends to step down. Instead, it seems as though he just intends to operate as GM while retaining the "interim" title.

 

That may change in the next few months. He may make some substantial changes in the organization. Or, he may step down as interim GM and they might announce a successor. I guess we'll see at the end of the season -- and at least then we'll know if the rehiring was truly bizarre.

[Mr. Ed]

117 wins in the past 300 games, as tweeted by Aaron Gleeman

 

.390 winning %

 

Shouldn't the coaching staff be held responsible?

[Coach J]

Billy Heywood. But seriously, I think Redmond would be great.

 

Can someone please justify the obsession with Redmond other than the fact that we know his name?

 

I think people remember Redmond's personality and hustle with fondness. Also the skills he developed as a catcher should serve him well as a manager and I do think that he will manage in the bigs some day.

 

Personally I think its to soon for Redmond -- not sure it would be a good idea for him to try to manage players with whom he played (and whom he played behind).

 

I think you are right.. Mike Redmond was very highly thought of in the Twins organization. His attitude, toughness, are charmisma would all serve him well as a big league manager. I disagree with the point you make about him not managing players he played behind. How good you are as a player often has little to do with how good of coach and teacher you are. In fact, the best athletes that have ever played in sports have made horrible coaches or front office people...( Michael Jordan, Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Kevin Mchale) On the other hand, some of the best coaches were not that good of players. Our current manager didn't have much of a big league career.. I would say he has been pretty successful. It might be a little too soon for Red to become a big league manager, but I don't think he would have any trouble getting the players respect just because he didn't play every day.

[Bark's Lounge]

Billy Heywood. But seriously, I think Redmond would be great.

 

Can someone please justify the obsession with Redmond other than the fact that we know his name?

 

I think people remember Redmond's personality and hustle with fondness. Also the skills he developed as a catcher should serve him well as a manager and I do think that he will manage in the bigs some day.

 

Personally I think its to soon for Redmond -- not sure it would be a good idea for him to try to manage players with whom he played (and whom he played behind).

 

JB_Iowa - I agree with your Redmond assessment almost 100%, but if the Twins do indeed decide to fire Gardenhire, and they pass on Redmond for the reasons you listed - I would lament the lost opportunity to pick up a young, up and coming manager who seems like a very good fit because of his ties and familiarity with this organization. (Comparison - Mike Matheny/SL Cardinals)

 

Although I know the term the "Twins Way" makes some sick to their stomach - I think Red-Dog would bring his own personality and style to this club and though he may be inexperienced, he might be the perfect manager for the upcoming influx of young players that will probably be on this roster. Because of being new to managing, Redmond probably has not become jaded as of yet and he might give the younger players time to grow, make their mistakes, without them having to fear they may end up in a permanent doghouse. Fighting to get out of that doghouse and at the same time questioning their own confidence is not a good developmental route to take, which these days seems to be the case sometimes.

 

As for his former teammates - I am pretty sure he was a beloved member and leader of the teams he played on with the Twins. I cannot see a scenario where Mauer or Morneau would not be enthused to play for Redmond. They actually might be rejuvenated with this change. Even though Redmond kept things loose in the clubhouse and played his pranks, Redmond doesn't strike me to be a guy who takes (Bleep) from players and will put them in their rightful place.

 

If Gardy is fired or resigns (which I doubt will happen) - the whole coaching staff needs to be cut also. Some of the coaches have had some great successes and I commend that, but if you make the change - it has to be absolute. Ryan and Redmond can then jointly put a new staff together, hoping it can bring a breathe of fresh air and future success into the organization.

 

Will that happen? Only time will tell.

[Craig Arko]

And who knows, maybe Red Dog would do naked post-game interviews. That would shake up those Fox Sports North Girls.

[Pius Jefferson]

I'm not sure in the modern era a manager's survived having two 99 loss seasons consecutively, let alone an entire coaching staff.

 

Just a guess on which guesses are likely to be let go or re-assigned.

 

1) Vavra-Bruno is waiting in the wings

2) Liddle

3) Ullger

4) White

5) Anderson-Might be most likely to find another coaching job.

Why the hell would they fire Vavra? And why is he at the top of the list? Offense hasn't exactly been an issue for the Twins this year, and he is certainly due some of the accolades for Revere and Plouffe's years.

 

Firing Liddle, Ullger or White really doesn't do a whole lot, but I guess if they want to use it to "make a statement" they can. Also, I'm not sure its wise to dump a good pitching coach in Anderson.

 

My guess is one or two of White/Liddle/Ullger will be let go just as an excuse to bring in a little bit of new blood.

 

I've just heard a couple of interviews with TR talking about the offense not being consistent enough. When the GM talks about inconsistencies than I lean towards the coach being the scapegoat.