Article: Sano Going To Let It Eat

[big dog]

 

His injury last year was caused by a foul ball to the chin.  Nothing to do with his weight, unless it was the higher mass that attracted that foul ball.

How did a foul ball to the chin result in a rod being inserted in his leg?

 

EDIT- shin, got it.  I do believe that leg injuries might be more easily aggravated when that leg is propping up a large body compared to a small body, but that's just a guess...

[Tibs]

 

Aaron Judge is 290 lbs.  Guess the Yankees should put him on a diet because he is not good enough.

Aaron Judge is also 6'7" and clearly in very good shape. Terrible comparison

[TheLeviathan]

So 5 pages of assuming what a healthy weight is by the number of pounds?

 

Dwayne Johnson weighs 280.  What a fat guy.

 

Maybe we should just try saying Miguel is "out of shape" and concentrate on that.  As soon as you start tossing numbers around about what a guy should or should not weigh and be healthy...you lost me.  That's being obtuse.

 

The Twins medical staff can discern that from more personal testing, you calculating it based on his height is nonsense.

[Taildragger8791]

 

I would argue that assuming to know a healthy baseline weight for Sano is obtuse...

 

Who is to say that 280, where he checked in last season, and where he can easily get to after moving around this spring, isn't a healthy weight? Are we certain his body won' allow him to play into his 30s at that weight? 

 

Obviously us at home don't know with certainty what his healthy baseline weight is, but there's just no way it's 290 at 6'4". 250-270 is a reasonable. He'd have to be an extreme outlier (and probably the only athlete ever) to have a lean body mass anywhere near 280-300.

 

Also, Sano has a track record of gaining weight after spring training starts. Not losing it. He'd have to show he can reverse that trend before anyone should expect it.

[Tibs]

 

And those offensive lineman run faster than you. Athletes have changed. The days of the Jack Clark sluggers is done.

 

Sano is over weight, I don't think anyone is arguing against this. I think there is some serious disagreement over how much he's overweight and how much that affects his play on the field. Since he's recovering from a leg injury, added weight isn't surprising. I suspect he'll be lighter by the end of ST. I don't think his weight has been negatively affecting him.

I completely understand how athletes have changed over the years.

 

They actually don't run faster than me   

Edited February 20, 2018 by Tibs

[Broker]

There are lots of pictures of Sano on various internet sites. He doesn't look fat in any of the ones I've seen. Keep in mind that muscle weighs more than fat.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Obviously us at home don't know with certainty what his healthy baseline weight is, but there's just no way it's 290 at 6'4". 250-270 is a reasonable. He'd have to be an extreme outlier (and probably the only athlete ever) to have a lean body mass anywhere near 280-300.

 

Also, Sano has a track record of gaining weight after spring training starts. Not losing it. He'd have to show he can reverse that trend before anyone should expect it.

 

Does Sano have to be "lean" in order for you to be happy?  Because, if so, I'd wonder about why half of our 25 man roster doesn't have a similar thread as this one.

[Taildragger8791]

 

So 5 pages of assuming what a healthy weight is by the number of pounds?

 

Dwayne Johnson weighs 280.  What a fat guy.

 

Maybe we should just try saying Miguel is "out of shape" and concentrate on that.  As soon as you start tossing numbers around about what a guy should or should not weigh and be healthy...you lost me.  That's being obtuse.

 

The Twins medical staff can discern that from more personal testing, you calculating it based on his height is nonsense.

 

Dwayne Johnson reported his weight at 262 last year, at an inch taller than Sano. He also lifts for show, not for go (i.e., maximum lean bulk, not athletic performance). And he's still 30 lbs lighter.

[HitInAPinch]

If anyone would be really concerned about Miguel's weight, I would think it would be his agents.

 

Where the heck is Roc Nation? 

[Vanimal46]

So essentially he's a few pounds heavier than 2017 when he reported to camp at 280 as Jack Morris correctly stated and everyone else hammered as utter rubbish and nonsense. "oh he's only 263"

 

Do the Twins still want to hand out a 10 year 200+ million plus contract in a couple of years to this guy? Obviously weight is going to be a problem long term for him. You would think that an injury such as the one he just suffered would refocus his mind on conditioning, but apparently not. What a shame. Trade him for pitching. How bout a 1 for 1 Sano for Archer.

I don't think we have to worry about the possibility of him signing a 10 year contract here. Why would he stay here when every season comes around his weight, work ethic, and attitude are questioned?

[Deduno Abides]

In the last 3-4 years, Cabrera has started experiencing those nagging types of injuries that come with not being in great shape. I don't think anyone is saying that Sano's injury last year was weight related. I don't think anyone is saying that he doesn't provide a huge amount of value to the Twins right now offensively. But I also don't think anyone thinks that he'll be able to sustain his value into his 30s or mid-30s if he doesn't make some alterations. I think all of those comments are fair.

 

That’s the point. He weighs 40-50 pounds more than the slugger with perhaps the most similar body type, who is 10 years older and had had three single seasons by the time he was Sano’s age with the same WAR as Sano has accumulated over his whole career. If Sano doesn’t take fitness more seriously, he’ll start his decline about ten years earlier than Cabrera. Sure, he’s talented, but that’s just the start of being successful.

 

Related: a lower leg injury or surgery doesn’t keep basketball players or runners from keeping in shape. It’s no excuse for a baseball player. You’d especially expect someone who has had two major injuries end two years and another injury that cost a big chunk of another season to WANT to be a beast the next year and not show up needing to work into shape.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Does Sano have to be "lean" in order for you to be happy?  Because, if so, I'd wonder about why half of our 25 man roster doesn't have a similar thread as this one.

 

No, he doesn't. And that's not what I said. I'm not being unreasonable and saying he needs to be 225 or get to 5% bodyfat. I just don't see how pushing 3 bills on the scale can be considered normal and sustainable just because he can still hit a baseball hard today (and probably for a few more years).

 

I've mostly ignored this topic in the previous iterations because I didn't think it was going to be an actual problem and he'd settle into a normal playing weight to extend his time at 3B, a position he claims to want to keep. But that's not happening, so it's fair to start being concerned about another year of trending in the wrong direction. Ultimately, only time will tell.

[mazeville]

 

There are lots of pictures of Sano on various internet sites. He doesn't look fat in any of the ones I've seen. Keep in mind that muscle weighs more than fat.

 

Huh. Guess we should ignore the "generous carriage" comments from the Twins' GM then? Because he doesn't "look fat" on Internet pics?

 

Kinda looks like he has a generous carriage in this picture here:

 

http://www.startribune.com/twins-miguel-sano-healthy-and-happy-but-heavy/474439303/

 

 

[mazeville]

 

I don't think we have to worry about the possibility of him signing a 10 year contract here. Why would he stay here when every season comes around his weight, work ethic, and attitude are questioned?

 

He's going to get these complaints everywhere else he goes if his team says he should get down to a certain weight and he doesn't. It's common, and it's perfectly acceptable these days for teams to push better conditioning on their players.

 

Regardless, I wouldn't want the Twins to sign Sano for 10 years now, anyway, because he hasn't performed like a player worth a 10-year contract. So the point is moot. 

[Deduno Abides]

BTW, there shouldn’t have been any “Sano is in bad shape” articles last year. He got in great shape over the winter and started the season in the MVP discussion, before tailing off, gaining weight and then getting injured.

[Ted Schwerzler]

 

Regardless, I wouldn't want the Twins to sign Sano for 10 years now, anyway, because he hasn't performed like a player worth a 10-year contract. So the point is moot. 

Which is really more the point here than weight is at all. Sano has the talent to be a superstar, but has the dedication of accepting that he's been an All Star.

[Vanimal46]

We just need to find out exactly how much he weighed in April 2017 and make sure he weighs exactly that from here on out.

 

If he's a pound over that April 2017 benchmark he has to run on the hamster wheel. If he's lucky, maybe he can eat a leaf of lettuce. No dressing of course. Every calorie counts!

[Thrylos]

 

 

his employer has asked him to watch and monitor his weight responsibly in recent offseasons as a 3B. He's decided against doing that.

 

Do you have solid evidence to back those 2 things up?

[Deduno Abides]

I don't think we have to worry about the possibility of him signing a 10 year contract here. Why would he stay here when every season comes around his weight, work ethic, and attitude are questioned?

I agree he’s unlikely to sign here, but it’s because it was always unlikely and because he’s been called a lot worse things than “fat” over last few months.

[TheLeviathan]

 

No, he doesn't. And that's not what I said. I'm not being unreasonable and saying he needs to be 225 or get to 5% bodyfat. I just don't see how pushing 3 bills on the scale can be considered normal and sustainable just because he can still hit a baseball hard today (and probably for a few more years).

 

I've mostly ignored this topic in the previous iterations because I didn't think it was going to be an actual problem and he'd settle into a normal playing weight to extend his time at 3B, a position he claims to want to keep. But that's not happening, so it's fair to start being concerned about another year of trending in the wrong direction. Ultimately, only time will tell.

 

I'm making no other argument than this: We don't know what a healthy weight is for Sano.  We've seen him badgered for 280, 290, 260, and many other numbers in between.

 

I'm all for imploring the guy to be physically ready to play.  I'm not for attacking him with arguments that amount to "He weighs more than 240, he must be lazy"

[Mr. Brooks]

If the Twins have continually asked Sano to show up in better shape, and he's declined to, then that would be my concern.

I've never met Miguel, so I can't comment on how much he should weigh.

A lack of conditioning could explain his poor second halves.

[Torbo]

Im of two minds on this.
First, i do kind of feel like we blow this out of proportion. He is a big guy either way you cut it, and we shouldnt judge others by their body. That type of judgement is a society wide thing too, and its a huge problem.

But then, i also feel like its not okay at all. It feels like he isnt trying as hard as he can. Even as a fan, that hurts. I want them to win so badly, and if it feels like their star player wont do everything he can to win, that hurts.
Then, theres also this. The twins are Sano's employer. If they asked him to be a certain weight, or be in a certain shape, and he isnt, they have every right to be upset. At least at my job, if my boss tells me to do my documentation a certain way, or treat my patients in a certain way....even if i dont agree with them, if i say "meh, i dont care", they have every right to be upset with me. Why should it be different for the job of baseball?

 

I don't care what his weight number is. Thats not important. I care whether or not he cares enough to do everything in his power to win. If his employers think he will be better at a certain level of fitness, then the Twins (and us, as the Twins customers), have a right to be upset if he isn't trying as hard as he can to meet that standard of fitness.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Obviously us at home don't know with certainty what his healthy baseline weight is, but there's just no way it's 290 at 6'4". 250-270 is a reasonable. He'd have to be an extreme outlier (and probably the only athlete ever) to have a lean body mass anywhere near 280-300.

 

Also, Sano has a track record of gaining weight after spring training starts. Not losing it. He'd have to show he can reverse that trend before anyone should expect it.

Body mass isn't an accurate measure of health, especially for an athlete. For reference I'm 28 yo, I work out 5-6 days a week, and I have a body fat % that's considered "lean," and it shows, yet I'm considered overweight according to my body mass. The one size fits all approach of determining an acceptable weight based only on height doesn't work. I'm not saying everything Sano is packing on is muscle, but athletes (power hitters in particular) tend to carry much more muscle than the average person. If some schmuck like myself is "overweight," just imagine how skewed those numbers are when measuring real athletes. 

 

Again, all these ranges mean nothing. Neither you nor I can possibly say that between weight X and Y is a healthy range, yet we're certain he can't play at 280? 

[KirbyDome89]

 

AT what point does mobility become a problem.  The Twins may be forced to move him to DH far sooner than even they imagined. I mean honestly if this is true and he's upwards of 290 (basically where he was at when he went down with that injury) he's now approaching the average size of an NFL tackle, guard or center at 312 lbs.  Too big.

The only thing that has limited his mobility to this point is his shin injury, which again had nothing to do with his weight. 

[mikelink45]

I think it speaks volumes.  Sano is too young to give up being a two way player, but he has shown a lack of discipline and he will do fine, but he will not do what he could have done.  Remember the Panda?  How about the quick demise of Prince Fielder? 

 

Perhaps this will work out - http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MensHealth/baseball-players-overweight-study-suggests/story?id=10001820 but I doubt it.  We are getting bigger and bigger in all sports but baseball seems to be leading - https://www.menshealth.com/guy-wisdom/fat-baseball.  

 

I am sad because he has so much potential and he also has the potential to flame out by 30.

[bustedstuff88]

 

At this given moment, thinking (Sano or not) a 1B/DH with massive power numbers is ever going to net a top tier pitcher under team control for more than a couple seasons is certainly a stretch. How it works out down the road is one thing, but it's not shocking in the least to see that offer dismissed.

 

And I agree with you completely, but we are also not taking your run of the mill pwer hitting 1B/DH. We are talking Miguel Sano here...Isnt his power level still in the category of "generational" and "once in a lifetime"? 

[terrydactyls]

I'm more concerned that he might drop over from a coronary than whether he hits a target weight. Obesity can be deadly. And for a professional athlete with both means and opportunity at his fingertips, there is no excuse for him not to be in playing shape whatever weight that is.

[yarnivek1972]

Weight and conditioning part is a bit reminiscent of Hrbek. I remember it being a pretty much annual issue with how much weight he put on. He was a great player and shoe in for Twins HOFer, but I think with different habits his ceiling was baseball HOF. Sano has a different ceiling also if he can't control his weight and condition. i don't think being an ok 3rd baseman or a mediocre 1st baseman adds that much value. Let him DH because it is his bat that plays.

Weight wasn’t an issue for Hrbek at 24. He played 140 plus games all but one season until 1991 (the year after he turned 30). And that was playing 100 plus games on the old fashioned astroturf. Not only at home, many many other stadiums had it during nearly all of Hrbek’s career.

[Taildragger8791]

 

The only thing that has limited his mobility to this point is his shin injury, which again had nothing to do with his weight. 

 

 

Body mass isn't an accurate measure of health, especially for an athlete. For reference I'm 28 yo, I work out 5-6 days a week, and I have a body fat % that's considered "lean," and it shows, yet I'm considered overweight according to my body mass. The one size fits all approach of determining an acceptable weight based only on height doesn't work. I'm not saying everything Sano is packing on is muscle, but athletes (power hitters in particular) tend to carry much more muscle than the average person. If some schmuck like myself is "overweight," just imagine how skewed those numbers are when measuring real athletes. 

 

Again, all these ranges mean nothing. Neither you nor I can possibly say that between weight X and Y is a healthy range, yet we're certain he can't play at 280? 

 

 

And his hamstring injury in 2015. And the other hamstring injury in 2016. And for 2018 spring training, the 'generous carriage' his GM notes will limit his spring activity. Yes, I'm aware that's connected to the shin injury but a little dietary discipline could have mitigated that and had him ready to go sooner. Athletes in other sports don't gain significant weight due to lower body injuries, because they know that's not an option. Maybe all those injuries and recovery times were unrelated and unaffected by his conditioning/fitness, but why put yourself in a position to even wonder?

 

You're right we don't know what his ideal weight is, because as you said every body type is different. Maybe he really will be the outlier that sustains excellence for many years at 280-300 lbs. But it's hard to bet against history, and I can't look at the pictures in this Star Tribune article and not think he's ballooned quite a bit from even previous seasons:

 

http://www.startribune.com/twins-miguel-sano-healthy-and-happy-but-heavy/474439303/

[yarnivek1972]

Anybody calling Big Papi fat? How about MIguel Cabrera? Sure, plenty of fat guys have fallen from grace, but this guy can straight up mash. If he can stay on the field, he's our most dangerous hitter, and it isn't even close. Cannot afford to let guys like Souhan and Reusse run this guy out of town. We need this dude in the middle of our lineup FOREVER.

He needs to prove he can actually stay healthy enough to be in the middle of the lineup.