Article: Sano Going To Let It Eat

[mazeville]

 

And those offensive lineman run faster than you. Athletes have changed. The days of the Jack Clark sluggers is done.

 

Sano is over weight, I don't think anyone is arguing against this. I think there is some serious disagreement over how much he's overweight and how much that affects his play on the field. Since he's recovering from a leg injury, added weight isn't surprising. I suspect he'll be lighter by the end of ST. I don't think his weight has been negatively affecting him.

 

I would argue that it is.

 

In 2016, Sano had an .823 OPS in the first half, and a .738 OPS in the second half.

 

Last year, .906 OPS in the first half, .742 in the second half. 

 

Maybe that's not conditioning. Maybe pitchers figure him out. But man he went from Jose Abreu to Ryon Healy last year.

 

By the way, Sano's .844 OPS would have been 13th best among the league's first basemen. Right behind Yonder Alonso and ahead of Mark Reynolds. It would have been 9th among third basemen. His bat plays better at third.

 

 

[mazeville]

 

He's 6'4" and he's coming off leg surgery. I'm not surprised that he put on a few pounds in the offseason, nor I worry about him shedding those once he starts running and moving around on the field. 

 

If the numbers are to be believed he weighted 230 lbs at age 19. How often do you see into kids that size at that age? We keep trying to assign conventional weight standards to a guy that is anything but normal.  

 

I don't think he necessarily should be 230. 260 is far more realistic And he could be expected to put on some weight recovering from surgery. But 290 is an awful lot. 

[mazeville]

 

Where did I type that? I responded to another poster who said his ideal weight is less than 230 lbs. And Sano said as much 5 years ago when he was 19 years old.

 

Got it. But according to the Twins his ideal playing weight should be around 260 and according to reports I've seen it's closer to 290 or 300. That's the concern. 230 at this point is probably unrealistic. 

 

Regardless, my personal issue is that the Twins and fans are right to be worried about his conditioning. And I'll admit that I'm worried about this for entirely selfish reasons: I want Miguel Sano to be a regular all-star and a fixture in the middle of the order for several years. 

 

His best chance at accomplishing that is by improving his conditioning, regardless of what his ultimate weight is. 

 

(Maybe he should hang out with Matt Birk, who went from 310 pounds to 235 pounds ...)

[Thrylos]

 

I don't understand how people can see the number 290 lbs and think that is remotely acceptable for a baseball player,

 

Aaron Judge is 290 lbs.  Guess the Yankees should put him on a diet because he is not good enough.

[h2oface]

Sure, you take what you get. Unless your client is dead, like Elvis, he/she can always disappoint the public, and not show up or be a pill. 

 

But make no mistake about it. This is not the days of the Babe. Conditioning and respect for your body matter. Getting fat is not genetics. Never has been, never will be. It is a direct result of how much one choses to put in one's mouth. If your metabolism is slower, or you are inactive, you need way less. Metabolism might be genetics. But getting fat never is. It doesn't mean that one can't be happy fat, but it is not something that one doesn't have a choice about.

[slash129]

Muscle weighs more than fat.   Sorry, sorry, sorry.  Couldn't help myself.

[Platoon]

I think Sano is young enough to have a lifestyle change. But I doubt it will happen. I know that opinion is from afar, but it's one that seems consistent with those up close also. If for instance Sano would have shown any inclination in the past to care for his conditioning, a pass could be extended for the stress fracture. Instead it seems more like an excuse. He has talent, and may produce. But I doubt he will ever be what he had the potential to be.

[mazeville]

 

Aaron Judge is 290 lbs.  Guess the Yankees should put him on a diet because he is not good enough.

 

It's not about weight. It's about conditioning. (Aaron Judge is clearly in better physical shape than Miguel Sano)

 

Sano showed up to camp with some extra weight, according to the team. The team wants Sano to get into better shape. That is a legitimate concern for a player who struggled to come off of what was supposed to be a short-term leg injury, and who has seen his performance diminish in the second half of each of the past two seasons.

 

[twinssporto]

I was going to write up a long post today about Sano but Ted was quicker.  That being said I think there is more to discuss besides his weight.  I mentioned this the other day in a different post but I think the Twins organization has some serious concerns about Sano.  The way Molitor spoke the other day it sounds like they are trying to work on his attitude as much as the weight. https://www.twincities.com/2018/02/09/twins-frustrated-mlb-investigation-into-miguel-sano-unresolved/

 

I am really rooting for Sano but as Ted mentioned in his article I think most of his issues have been self-inflicted. I would be shocked if Sano starts the season at 3B.  In fact, I don't think the Twins will put him in the field until he drops 40lbs.  People and athletes alike get injured all the time.  Even if his entire lower body was immobilized thats not an excuse to gain that much weight.  Its not how far or how long he does aerobic exercises it what he puts in his mouth. The Minnesota Twins dietician (Kate Moran) is hopefully on full code red alert now.  

 

Either way, this is not how I wanted to see Sano come into spring training.  

 

On a more funny note I read an article in the StarTrib yesterday about Sano and some of the comments people were making made me double over in laughter.  Here's just a few:

 

•  I bet a Sano bobblehead doll would weigh 68 pounds.
• You know who I feel the most sorry for? That reinforcement rod in his shin.
• If he hits an infield grounder can the Twins use a designated runner?
• Don't MLB base paths have road weight restrictions on them?
• Sano for Archer trade. Its like a two for one.

 

[Ted Schwerzler]

 

It wouldn't be spring training if there wasn't a "Sano needs to lose weight" article written.

Plus, isn't it hard to work out and train when you're recovering from a stress fracture?

I'll never understand fans ripping on Sano.

No one is "ripping Sano." If that's your takeaway here, you've missed the point. I don't care if he weighs 1,000 pounds, he'll still likely crush baseballs.

 

From an baseball roster standpoint, being overweight to the point of removing positional flexibility and perceived value to other organizations is of detriment to Minnesota. Simply.

[mazeville]

 

No one is "ripping Sano." If that's your takeaway here, you've missed the point. I don't care if he weighs 1,000 pounds, he'll still likely crush baseballs.

 

From an baseball roster standpoint, being overweight to the point of removing positional flexibility and perceived value to other organizations is of detriment to Minnesota. Simply.

 

I can't like this comment enough. 

 

I really want Sano to thrive and succeed. It's not ripping him. It's wanting a young player to put in the commitment that comes with the job so he can do well at the position he wants to play. 

[Ted Schwerzler]

Reading through some of the comments, here's some hard truths that seem to be points of frustration seen as opinion or detractions:

 

Sano's weight is not an issue that will (or immediately will) detract from his ability to hit 30+ HRs in multiple seasons. Even in ripping doubles, he's fine.

 

Sano wasn't likely going to stick at 3B, and there were no guarantees he would stick at 1B either.

 

Sano's injuries thus far have not been reflections of or caused due to weight.

 

Now here's some fallout for those realities that are also not entirely opinion:

 

As solely a hitter, even at 24 yrs old, his DH production would need to be ELITE to command the level of value perceived or projected for him.

 

As a heavy player, he will have a more difficult time rehabbing any lower body injury, and likely any injury at all. When not in peak physical form, you're going to find more resistance to recovery, that's pretty cut and dry.

 

Finally, his employer has asked him to watch and monitor his weight responsibly in recent offseasons as a 3B. He's decided against doing that. If there's a further fallout knowing he doesn't play the field, what does that look like?

[Ted Schwerzler]

 

 

I was going to write up a long post today about Sano but Ted was quicker.  That being said I think there is more to discuss besides his weight.  I mentioned this the other day in a different post but I think the Twins organization has some serious concerns about Sano.  The way Molitor spoke the other day it sounds like they are trying to work on his attitude as much as the weight. https://www.twincities.com/2018/02/09/twins-frustrated-mlb-investigation-into-miguel-sano-unresolved/

 

While many of the comments are in relation to the weight, I think your reply grasps the bigger issue that I alluded to here. If the Twins asked Sano to stay in shape and he's failed to do so, it says more about him than the number on the scale.

 

Regardless of the outcome for any assault charges, the responsibility to carry himself professionally has been called into question in other instances as well. Both of these scenarios are far scarier than whatever poundage rounds out to be.

 

Superstars are guys that stop at nothing to push their ceiling. There's a ton of talent here, and if it doesn't bother you to see a cornerstone of the current Twins franchise demanding the most of that talent, you're probably ok with being good enough.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I don't think he necessarily should be 230. 260 is far more realistic And he could be expected to put on some weight recovering from surgery. But 290 is an awful lot. 

Yeah I know you're not saying he needs to be 230 right now, the point was that if he was already that weight as such a young age it shouldn't be surprising that he's in the upper 200s as he has continued to physically mature. 

 

IMO 260 is arbitrary. It's no different than the 10 lbs the Twins complained about a couple years ago. If/when his weight actually impacts his performance in a negative way I'll care. That hasn't happened, so right now Idc whether he weights 260 or 280. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by KirbyDome89

[USAFChief]

It's rather mind boggling to me to see so many posters posit that being overweight doesn't negatively affect a baseball player.

 

That just doesn't make sense.

 

Not rendering him useless is not the same as not negatively affecting his performance.  At the very LEAST, it slows a baseball player down.  It almost certainly HAS to negatively affect ankle, knee, and hip joints.  And I'm just not buying the idea that a 3rd baseman isn't negatively affected defensively if he's carrying extra pounds.

 

C'mon people.  

[Seth Stohs]

 

He weighs about 40-50 pounds more than Miguel Cabrera, who is also a large fellow and may be taller.

 

In the last 3-4 years, Cabrera has started experiencing those nagging types of injuries that come with not being in great shape. I don't think anyone is saying that Sano's injury last year was weight related. I don't think anyone is saying that he doesn't provide a huge amount of value to the Twins right now offensively. But I also don't think anyone thinks that he'll be able to sustain his value into his 30s or mid-30s if he doesn't make some alterations. I think all of those comments are fair. 

[Platoon]

I am curious. If he was reported, or speculated to be 290 last year, then he isn't 290 this year. He just simply looks so much heavier. I am not being critical, more like disappointed. The pictures I have seen of him so far this spring, don't make it look like he will be even able to DH effectively.

[Respy]

I'm not going to conjecture whether or not Sano's weight impacts his performance.  If he stays healthy, is on the field, is providing a positive WAR and is one of the best players on the team, I personally won't complain about him.  But, if he's getting injured repeatedly, or if he's struggling at the plate, or his third base range metrics start dropping, and he also seems to be overweight, that's all people are going to talk about.  Personally, if it were me in his shoes, I would try and keep a healthy and athletic weight (again, not going to conjecture what that is for him) just to keep that idea of naysayers off the table.  It also sets a good example to teammates and younger prospects.

 

Normal person example: Could I get all my work done, and at the same quality, if I came in to work everyday at 8:30am instead of 8am?  Sure I bet I could.  But, others around me would start complaining and looking for holes in my performance.  Might as well just do it right and give others around me the right perception.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Respy

[Ted Schwerzler]

 

I am curious. If he was reported, or speculated to be 290 last year, then he isn't 290 this year. He just simply looks so much heavier. I am not being critical, more like disappointed. The pictures I have seen of him so far this spring, don't make it look like he will be even able to DH effectively.

I believe Pat opined on Twitter today that he's staring 300 in the face. Back in 2015, when he wrote the article (and spoke at the Star Trib event) he said he "knew" the number was 290.

[Ted Schwerzler]

 

If people can't understand that Sano can't carry the same amount of weight at 27-30 as he is now at 24, they're being willfully obtuse.

 

that isn't part of the argument -- it's THE ENTIRE argument.

And on top of the weight part of it, by not maximizing or detracting from peak body performance now, you're likely impacting your decline at an advanced stage.

[Lefty]

Anybody calling Big Papi fat?  How about MIguel Cabrera?  Sure, plenty of fat guys have fallen from grace, but this guy can straight up mash.  If he can stay on the field, he's our most dangerous hitter, and it isn't even close.  Cannot afford to let guys like Souhan and Reusse run this guy out of town.  We need this dude in the middle of our lineup FOREVER.  

[laloesch]

So essentially he's a few pounds heavier than 2017 when he reported to camp at 280 as Jack Morris correctly stated and everyone else hammered as utter rubbish and nonsense.  "oh he's only 263" 

 

Do the Twins still want to hand out a 10 year 200+ million plus contract in a couple of years to this guy?  Obviously weight is going to be a problem long term for him.  You would think that an injury such as the one he just suffered would refocus his mind on conditioning, but apparently not.  What a shame.  Trade him for pitching.  How bout a 1 for 1 Sano for Archer.

[KirbyDome89]

 

If people can't understand that Sano can't carry the same amount of weight at 27-30 as he is now at 24, they're being willfully obtuse.

 

that isn't part of the argument -- it's THE ENTIRE argument.

I would argue that assuming to know a healthy baseline weight for Sano is obtuse...

 

Who is to say that 280, where he checked in last season, and where he can easily get to after moving around this spring, isn't a healthy weight? Are we certain his body won' allow him to play into his 30s at that weight? 

[laloesch]

 

I would argue that assuming to know a healthy baseline weight for Sano is obtuse...

 

Who is to say that 280, where he checked in last season, and where he can easily get to after moving around this spring, isn't a healthy weight? Are we certain his body won' allow him to play into his 30s at that weight? 

 

AT what point does mobility become a problem.  The Twins may be forced to move him to DH far sooner than even they imagined. I mean honestly if this is true and he's upwards of 290 (basically where he was at when he went down with that injury) he's now approaching the average size of an NFL tackle, guard or center at 312 lbs.  Too big.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Aaron Judge is 290 lbs.  Guess the Yankees should put him on a diet because he is not good enough.

 

You know full well that comparison doesn't make sense. Judge is 3" taller, looks trim, and doesn't have a track record of steadily gaining weight. He also plays the outfield decently, unlike most guys (including Sano) who would be a clown show out there at that size.

 

Nobody is a natural 290 lbs at 6'4", even with a large muscle mass. I didn't expect Sano to be in top form after his leg injury, but gaining 30 lbs as a professional athlete just because of an injury is a little ridiculous. He usually gains weight during the season too, so I don't expect improvement in 2018. Weight control starts with the diet and he's not gaining that kinds weight from grilled chicken salads and egg whites.

 

Just because the weight isn't a 100% definite problem yet doesn't mean the increased risk should be acceptable. He's already battled hamstring issues in 2015 and 2016 (something often caused by insufficient conditioning), and if he carried 30-40 less lbs then maybe he recovers better from his shin injury. If Sano continues to experience back or lower body injuries throughout his 20s and it limits his performance I doubt folks will still chalk it up as some unavoidable bad luck or genetics. Why wait until then to address it?

 

Maybe this is all much ado about nothing and he whips into shape or plays fantastically at 300 lbs for the next 10 years. But the story of the overweight slugger limiting his ceiling has played out too many times before to not be at least a little bit concerned.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Taildragger8791

[Ted Schwerzler]

 

Anybody calling Big Papi fat?  How about MIguel Cabrera?  Sure, plenty of fat guys have fallen from grace, but this guy can straight up mash.  If he can stay on the field, he's our most dangerous hitter, and it isn't even close.  Cannot afford to let guys like Souhan and Reusse run this guy out of town.  We need this dude in the middle of our lineup FOREVER.  

This came up on Twitter as well. Big Papi is arguably the greatest DH ever, and was also about 30 lbs lighter than Sano. Sano can mash, but if you're hoping he becomes on par with the best DH ever, it's probably in his best interest to handle all responsibilities with more importance.

 

Also, Cabrera's body has broken down significantly, and while he has had a great career, dark times lie ahead.

[Ted Schwerzler]

 

How bout a 1 for 1 Sano for Archer.

That's referenced (and linked to) in the piece that the Rays immediately said no to that.

 

In fact, that's half the point. A guy who mashes without a position simply doesn't have the same level of value. J.D. Martinez is great, but even if they were the same age, you aren't getting the same return for him as Kris Bryant

[Loosey]

For me it isn't his weight.  If he ways 290 pounds and is in great physical condition fantastic. 

 

The part that concerns me, and I don't know if this is the case or not, is that if the reason he is 290 lbs is because he doesn't take care of himself.  If he had been following a regime the Twins gave him for the off-season trying to stay fit but still is overweight that is not on him.

 

However, if he sat around and didn't do what was asked of him, it's a problem.  That means he lacks discipline and may not take his baseball career as seriously as one would hope.  

 

Hoping he did what the Twins asked and this is just who he is.  If not, the superstar many were hoping for might be done before he reach those lofty goals.

[Ted Schwerzler]

As "weight" continues to be a theme in so many of these comments, try this practice... Replace "weight" with "responsibility" and understand that's more of the problem.

 

Again, there shouldn't be doubt about whether or not Miguel Sano can mash at 300 lbs, yes he can. There is concern about what level of production he's ok with from himself, both now and in the future, based on his level of responsibility both to his craft and his employer.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Anybody calling Big Papi fat?  How about MIguel Cabrera?  Sure, plenty of fat guys have fallen from grace, but this guy can straight up mash.  If he can stay on the field, he's our most dangerous hitter, and it isn't even close.  Cannot afford to let guys like Souhan and Reusse run this guy out of town.  We need this dude in the middle of our lineup FOREVER.  

 

Those guys played between 250-270 over the years, so still less than Sano is already sitting at by quite a bit. Papi had major foot problems as a result, and to his credit he put a ton of work in to overcome that just to play every day. He also got on a pretty strict diet in his later years to keep the weight down. Both have tried to keep their playing weight closer to 250, so even they recognize that anything much over that is excessive and wasteful.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Taildragger8791