Article: Sano Going To Let It Eat

[Broker]

 

And his hamstring injury in 2015. And the other hamstring injury in 2016. And for 2018 spring training, the 'generous carriage' his GM notes will limit his spring activity. Yes, I'm aware that's connected to the shin injury but a little dietary discipline could have mitigated that and had him ready to go sooner. Athletes in other sports don't gain significant weight due to lower body injuries, because they know that's not an option. Maybe all those injuries and recovery times were unrelated and unaffected by his conditioning/fitness, but why put yourself in a position to even wonder?

 

You're right we don't know what his ideal weight is, because as you said every body type is different. Maybe he really will be the outlier that sustains excellence for many years at 280-300 lbs. But it's hard to bet against history, and I can't look at the pictures in this Star Tribune article and not think he's ballooned quite a bit from even previous seasons:

 

http://www.startribune.com/twins-miguel-sano-healthy-and-happy-but-heavy/474439303/

Those head and shoulder pics really don't show much. Try some of these.

 

http://www.photofile.com/SportsProducts/player/baseball/Miguel-Sano.html

 

These are better pics.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Those head and shoulder pics really don't show much. Try some of these.

 

http://www.photofile.com/SportsProducts/player/baseball/Miguel-Sano.html

 

These are better pics.

 

Those pictures are a year or more old, and he looks considerably better in them. I'd be comfortable with him at the weight he was at last spring if he could maintain it throughout the season. I'd be interested to see a full body shot of him today, but so far all I can go off of are reports from his team and pics of his newly grown jowls (I kid).

Edited February 21, 2018 by Taildragger8791

[Han Joelo]

Despite the fact I am commenting again on this, I gotta say I just don't care about this all that much--because I don't really see this team as Sano's anymore.  He can certainly still surprise me, and I hope he does--for both my fandom and for his career.  But so far, he doesn't seem to have been able to live up to the, gulp, weight of expectations that have been placed on him.

 

In my view of this team, he now more fits the Kyle Schwarber niche than the Kris Bryant role.  Maybe every other single Twin showed up for camp in tip-top shape, and I'm wrong.  Or maybe there are guys there with less notoriety who showed up needing to work on some stuff, they just don't get the press scrutiny.  Sano's just a guy, to me.  He's earned back his signing bonus already, maybe he would benefit from a little more anonymity.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Han Joelo

[laloesch]

 

I don't think we have to worry about the possibility of him signing a 10 year contract here. Why would he stay here when every season comes around his weight, work ethic, and attitude are questioned?

 

with good reason.  He isn't exactly squashing these legit questions via action.  

[Broker]

This is a quote from ESPN from a few days ago.

“Better. I work really hard,” Sano said. “I worked with the trainers here [in Fort Myers] for a few months, and I [went] back to the Dominican for a few days and I worked with [Fernando] Tatis, and now we’re here, excited to do my job.”

Apparently he's not just sitting around.

[laloesch]

 

I'm making no other argument than this: We don't know what a healthy weight is for Sano.  We've seen him badgered for 280, 290, 260, and many other numbers in between.

 

I'm all for imploring the guy to be physically ready to play.  I'm not for attacking him with arguments that amount to "He weighs more than 240, he must be lazy"

 

Comeon.....He's 6'-4" not 6'-7" or 6'-9".  At 290+ he's over weight no ifs ands or butts. Simple as that.

[adorduan]

 

This is a quote from ESPN from a few days ago.

“Better. I work really hard,” Sano said. “I worked with the trainers here [in Fort Myers] for a few months, and I [went] back to the Dominican for a few days and I worked with [Fernando] Tatis, and now we’re here, excited to do my job.”

Apparently he's not just sitting around.

C'mon, what's he going to say, I just want to eat cheeseburgers? Oh, wait.....

[Jham]

First, it's not like posters critical of Sano's shape are cheering against him. They want him to reach his full potential. Same as those defending him. Whether or not weight is a factor, it certainly could be. Wouldn't we want a player with the potential for greatness to give himself every opportunity?

 

Second, strike outs, not weight, is Sano's biggest problem and biggest obstacle. I'd he doesn't solve for k, his eating habits don't matter that much. He'll always be a power only 2 outcome hitter.

 

Finally, people need to stop using the word elite for his bat. And stop with big papi and cab comparisons. It does him no services to compare him to players who were and always were better all around hitters. 30 hr is nothing with the new balls. He had darn well better got 30 if esco is going for 20. Sano has never hit for average. His k rate isn't comparable to anyone from any era. The comparisons only fuel the fire when he can't meet the unrealistically high expectations. If the scoring report was plodding slugger and not future mvp, there wouldn't be this much discontent.

[Dantes929]

 

Weight wasn’t an issue for Hrbek at 24. He played 140 plus games all but one season until 1991 (the year after he turned 30). And that was playing 100 plus games on the old fashioned astroturf. Not only at home, many many other stadiums had it during nearly all of Hrbek’s career.

According to this issue age 24 is about when it started being an issue.      He had such a great swing but he tinkered a lot with various batting stances and became a little pull happy when Reggie said he should be pulling the ball..   He lived the way he wanted and was certainly a great player.   With different habits, conditioning and using all the fields I think he could have been one of the games greats rather than one of the Twins greats.    Another guy that fell in love with moon shots.     Awesome to watch but I think he could have hit more 350-400 ft home runs if he didn't try to hit 400-500 foot ones all the time.

http://www.startribune.com/twinscentric-one-for-the-fat-boys/188360691/

[Squirrel]

There are lots of pictures of Sano on various internet sites. He doesn't look fat in any of the ones I've seen. Keep in mind that muscle weighs more than fat.

Have to say seeing him in person he didn’t seem as overweight as what I was expecting after reading some of the comments here. Yes, I think he could be leaner and yes, I think there needs to be some conditioning. I’ll give half a pass to that because his injury didn’t allow for him to work on things as much as we would have hoped during the off season. But I am concerned about the other I won’t give half a pass to, him. He’s 24 and I’ll give that a little bit more time, but I do think he needs to make some choices sooner rather than later on who he wants to be as a player as others have alluded to. And after seeing him today, man, he’s just one big dude with huge thighs, but not hugely overweight.

[KirbyDome89]

 

And his hamstring injury in 2015. And the other hamstring injury in 2016. And for 2018 spring training, the 'generous carriage' his GM notes will limit his spring activity. Yes, I'm aware that's connected to the shin injury but a little dietary discipline could have mitigated that and had him ready to go sooner. Athletes in other sports don't gain significant weight due to lower body injuries, because they know that's not an option. Maybe all those injuries and recovery times were unrelated and unaffected by his conditioning/fitness, but why put yourself in a position to even wonder?

 

You're right we don't know what his ideal weight is, because as you said every body type is different. Maybe he really will be the outlier that sustains excellence for many years at 280-300 lbs. But it's hard to bet against history, and I can't look at the pictures in this Star Tribune article and not think he's ballooned quite a bit from even previous seasons:

 

http://www.startribune.com/twins-miguel-sano-healthy-and-happy-but-heavy/474439303/

This is exactly why I called his weight a boogeyman, EVERYTHING negative is attributed to it. We're stretching back years now to associate a hamstring pull, a very common injury amongst all athletes, with his weight. His weight, not the fact he was playing severely out of position, is why he struggled in the OF. Also his weight is the reason his 2016 season wasn't a continuation of his torrid 2015 call up. 

 

No athletes in other sports have reported out of shape after being laid up for months following surgery? What?

 

There is no history, and there are no comparisons; we're talking about an individual person. 

[twinssporto]

 

Anybody calling Big Papi fat?  How about MIguel Cabrera?  Sure, plenty of fat guys have fallen from grace, but this guy can straight up mash.  If he can stay on the field, he's our most dangerous hitter, and it isn't even close.  Cannot afford to let guys like Souhan and Reusse run this guy out of town.  We need this dude in the middle of our lineup FOREVER.  

Unfortunately for Sano, you, me and the rest of the Twins fan base that FOREVER looks more like 3 years the way he's going now.  

[Lefty]

 

He needs to prove he can actually stay healthy enough to be in the middle of the lineup.

Disagree, if he can even show up and hold a bat he should be swinging in the 4-hole.

[twinssporto]

 

Do you have solid evidence to back those 2 things up?

Like the photos shown in the StarTrib?

[Dr. Evil]

Mr. Sano is a huge man who had surgery on one of his wheels and has been rehabbing this offseason. Discussing his current weight and attempting to tie that to a lack of commitment seems really pointless to me at this juncture.

 

I'll go read a different topic now.

[wabene]

Sano was never considered a great defensive prospect, his ability to stick at 3B was questioned through the minors too. He has a cannon for an arm but he has always had some difficulty fielding. IMO the weight is an easy target for a guy that was going to have struggles defensively at the major league level.

His size and or weight are what limit an otherwise very athletic man in the field. There is no question. What else would be the reason he would be limited in his fielding? He has a cannon, great reflexes and practiced baseball instincts. The only thing missing is he is limited by his size. I have always liked Hrbek and watching him play but I always felt his career was limited by his conditioning and that was in an era of less conditioning overall. If Sano worked out half as much as La Machina (Berrios)and stayed under 250 maybe 240 he would have a better chance of maximizing his potential, no question. On the other hand if he works hard and stays above 250 plays for ten or more years as a 1B/DH being capable enough at 1B to play winning ball in the NL parks in the playoffs who wouldn't be happy?

[Brandon Warne]

 

I would argue that assuming to know a healthy baseline weight for Sano is obtuse...

 

Who is to say that 280, where he checked in last season, and where he can easily get to after moving around this spring, isn't a healthy weight? Are we certain his body won' allow him to play into his 30s at that weight? 

 

Name another 280 lb, long-term third baseman. He might be the unicorn, but I'm not gambling hundreds of million dollars in future earnings to find out. 

[twinssouth]

Hello Pablo Sandoval, lasted couple yrs with Red Sox, guess he's back with Giants.

[RaoulDuke]

 

Those pictures are a year or more old, and he looks considerably better in them. I'd be comfortable with him at the weight he was at last spring if he could maintain it throughout the season. I'd be interested to see a full body shot of him today, but so far all I can go off of are reports from his team and pics of his newly grown jowls (I kid).

 

There are multiple videos of him taking bp out now.  He looks a bit thicker to me but those strib photos are pretty unflattering.

[TheLeviathan]

 

There are multiple videos of him taking bp out now.  He looks a bit thicker to me but those strib photos are pretty unflattering.

 

Here is an example.  I'm just not seeing anything there to panic over.

[h2oface]

 

Here is an example.  I'm just not seeing anything there to panic over.

 

 

I agree. Thunder thighs. I want to see 50+ round trippers this year..... and he can say "Bite Me" to everyone!

 

And what about Buxton's beard?  

Edited February 21, 2018 by h2oface

[MangLitch]

First, he is far less valuable as a 1B/DH than he is a 3B. There is no question about that. It may not be the "end of the world," but he's certainly not the player he could be.

 

And why are we excusing a player's conditioning like this? Why are you OK with him showing up to camp at 300 pounds?

 

I just don't get that sentiment. I'm not saying Sano should be some skinny dude. But he definitely has to improve his conditioning and get in better shape. He has a lot of potential as a third baseman. Everybody should want him to realize that potential, and conditioning will get him there.

Again, the first point was simply that I’ve seen many 290lb men that are way more athletic than most and we get hung up because he isn’t sculpted and have some arbitrary number for what his weight should be. I guess I am taking the weight and see approach to how he handles it (see what I did there?)

 

And the second piece was more of a “is it really that big of a deal?”. I’m sorry but I think if he is a below average fielder at third, I would argue he isn’t more valuable there because if you DH/1B him he gets to focus more on his bat. Not that defense becomes moot, but be realistic here, he is a bopper and not a gold Glover. If he had a shot at one I would be more worked up but in this day and age I think you can look to add a better defensive piece at third anayways.

 

Maybe I’m wrong and he was expected to light the world on fire defensively, I just never had that impression once he got past High A. Play the bat, it’s what he loves and it’s where his real value is. I think we need to adjust expectations ourselves a bit.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Name another 280 lb, long-term third baseman. He might be the unicorn, but I'm not gambling hundreds of million dollars in future earnings to find out. 

You're moving the goalposts.

 

Are we really going to pretend like he was  going to be a long term fixture at 3B? The guy has had documented issues fielding the ball almost since MN signed him. 

 

That wasn't the point though. The point was that you're professing to know what a healthy baseline for Sano is, and then you're using that to forecast the future. That is pure conjecture but it's being thrown around this thread as if it's fact. 

[alskntwnsfn]

A lot is being made of Sano's weight during this ST, again. However, he was dealing with a stress frature in his shin. Wouldn't that make it hard to much of any cardio? If he was resting up to get healthy, even if that meant putting on some pounds, I'm okay with that so long as he's ready to go. I'd be inclined to be critical if he ended 2017 healthy but he wasn't. So given his talent, I'm inclined to give him a pass this year.

[glunn]

Moderator note -- please be respectful of other posters. By way of example, referring to other posters as "obtuse" is not respectful.

[kab21]

This all reminds me of the 'man weight' that Liriano put on while rehabbing from TJ. He was just flat out of shape.

We will need to see more photos and game action of Sano to know what kind of shape he actually is in though. He might have gained considerable weight but it won't affect him at the plate (all I care about). I think between the added weight and the recovery from leg surgery his time in the field will be quite limited this season though.

One other thing to think about is that Sano seems to be gaining 20 lbs (about) per year. I know people have said that typically athletes (and everyone) gains weight as they age but this is a little extreme. At some point it has to stop. There isn't an ideal weight for Sano. He could be perfectly fine at a ripped 280 but the key is the ripped part and not the actual weight.

 

[Platoon]

I don't think having our best hitter, and best pitcher laid up to start the season is a good omen. Will Sano be laid up? That's hard to say right now, but I don't know of an alternative. And if he is not, and is not effective, and they feel the need to keep him active on the 25, the bench gets really thin, even for the first 6 weeks of the season. I was a member of the "trade Sano for Archer/pitching" group. I still am. Many thought this was a horrible idea. Now I read that it was floated, and turned down? I am a long way from being in the loop with the Twins, but there is something amiss with the whole Sano Saga. This isn't an isolated incidence, it's more of a continuation.

[Craig Arko]

It seems to me the two people here who have actually seen Sano at ST are not panicking over this. Maybe we should listen to them.

[Blackjack]

 

Here is an example.  I'm just not seeing anything there to panic over.

 

A picture is worth a thousand words!!! He doesn't look fat in that clip!!!

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

As "weight" continues to be a theme in so many of these comments, try this practice... Replace "weight" with "responsibility" and understand that's more of the problem.

 

Again, there shouldn't be doubt about whether or not Miguel Sano can mash at 300 lbs, yes he can. There is concern about what level of production he's ok with from himself, both now and in the future, based on his level of responsibility both to his craft and his employer.

 

I can get behind this, but unfortunately, there was too much in your original article that didn't center around this piece. You brought it up with your two points of accountability and fallout from it, but most of what you said didn't center around accountability. It centered around pounds. This is sadly a hot topic, and it's bolstered by the fact that way too many people (not you in this case) aren't too terribly interested in actually understanding what people are saying. There's a lot of talking past people in this thread.

 

I'd advise everyone to pay more attention to that.

 

For my part, I expected him to be a bit out of shape due to the injury. Expectations were set for that this fall. I certainly hoped that this wouldn't be the case, but there's just no way he was going to be as active as anyone would have liked post surgery.

 

There seems to be a lot of assumption that the number is the only gage for whether or not he's in playing shape. I'm not sure that this is the case. I'm pretty much with Levi on this one. I don't know what his number should be. I do know based on his body type that his number is going to be higher than what is traditionally considered acceptable. I don't think he's hiding 50+ pounds of fat as has been implied. I don't think his number is simply due to him being lazy (it might be, but none of us know that), and I think it's unfair to state that his genetics doesn't play a role in this (quite frankly, that's an unreasonable take). I think concerns about his long term outlook at a high number are legitimate, but I don't think that the fact that his number is higher than we'd like means that Sano doesn't care or has done nothing. For all we know, he did try. Truthfully, I have no idea what Sano does or does not care about if he tried to stay in shape or not. None of us do. 

 

The character assassination here is getting pretty thick. There are plenty of people reacting to the character assassination, which makes it hard to have any sort of reasonable discussion on the matter. Sano very well may deserve some of it, but I don't think many of us are without sin either... so let's stop casting stones.