The NY Post reported the Yankees are working on a deal to acquire a Gerrit Cole. Players mentioned include Clint Frazier and Chance Adams.

 

The Twins might be able to step in here. How would an offer of Kepler and choice of Gonsalves/Romero match up? Maybe a little light but close. The third piece could win the deal.

 

Do you step in here and try to top the Yankees rumored offering of Frazier and Adams? How much beyond Kepler and one of Gonsalves/Romero do you go to persuade the Pirates?

Use said prospects to get Archer. 2 years of Cole isn't enough.

Kepler and one of those arms is a lot. I may be higher on Kepler than the industry, but I wouldn't even think of trading him for Frazier.

Kepler for Cole straight up would be a loss for us. If the Yankees are going to move Frazier and Adams for two years of Cole, I think we move on. If the Yankees are giving up on Frazier, it means they have another future corner OFer coming into the fold (Bryce Harper). Money can fix a lot of issues and the  Yankees have more money than anyone. They can overpay.

 

Adams is similar enough to Gonsalves or Romero to match up but I don't think we can - or should - match Frazier.

Kepler for Cole straight up would be a loss for us. If the Yankees are going to move Frazier and Adams for two years of Cole, I think we move on. If the Yankees are giving up on Frazier, it means they have another future corner OFer coming into the fold (Bryce Harper). Money can fix a lot of issues and the Yankees have more money than anyone. They can overpay.

 

Adams is similar enough to Gonsalves or Romero to match up but I don't think we can - or should - match Frazier.

Yanks have Judge, Stanton and Gardner. Frazier is excess even without Harper.

 

Yanks have Judge, Stanton and Gardner. Frazier is excess even without Harper.

Judge and/or Stanton will move to 1b/DH for Harper. Their most common first baseman last year were Carter, Headley and Bird, around 40 games each. Their most common DH was Matt Holliday, with 89 starts there. None of that should prevent them from signing Harper.

 

Did you know that Harper is actually younger than Judge?

 

They could have a future with LF/RF/1B/DH held by (in some order) Harper/Stanton/Frazier/Judge if they wanted.

Use said prospects to get Archer. 2 years of Cole isn't enough.

Easy to like that, but if the Yankees set the market for Cole at Adams/Frazier it will take much more to get Archer.

Judge and/or Stanton will move to 1b/DH for Harper. Their most common first baseman last year were Carter, Headley and Bird, around 40 games each. Their most common DH was Matt Holliday, with 89 starts there. None of that should prevent them from signing Harper.

 

Did you know that Harper is actually younger than Judge?

 

They could have a future with LF/RF/1B/DH held by (in some order) Harper/Stanton/Frazier/Judge if they wanted.

I would take a healthy Bird over Frazier.

 

I think they are going to spend resources on pitching over corner bats.

Kepler and one of those arms is a lot. I may be higher on Kepler than the industry, but I wouldn't even think of trading him for Frazier.

The Pirates get two extra years of control with Frazier. Kepler also start arbitration next year so not only is it two additional years, it is two inexpensive years. Given the years of control, I can see how the Pirates might prefer Frazier.

I think a lot of Twins fans over value Kepler at this point. Not hitting LH pitching hurts his value a lot, imo.

 

Frazier has the two extra years of control and he still has the high prospect shine on as he hasn't played enough for any big flaws to show up.

Easy to like that, but if the Yankees set the market for Cole at Adams/Frazier it will take much more to get Archer.

For sure but I'm willing to part with more prospects to get Archer. He solves the problem long term.

Cole & Archer are not aces. If you are going to deal prospects I would rather over pay for a pitcher not arbitration eligible yet.

Cole & Archer are not aces. If you are going to deal prospects I would rather over pay for a pitcher not arbitration eligible yet.

Which teams are selling pre-arbitration aces? Both contenders and rebuilding clubs tend to want to keep those kind of pitchers.

If we can sign Darvish, should we trade for Archer too?

 

With a rotation of Darvish, Archer, Santana, Berrios, and Gibson / May / Mejia with Gonsalves, Romero, Jorge, Sledgers, Kohl, Thorpe and more on the way. We could trade 3 of those pitching prospects plus Gordon and a lower level prospect or 2 to get Archer and not hurt our depth too much.

 

Darvish would be for 5 or 6 years

Archer for 4

Santana for 1 + 1

Berrios for 5

Gibson 2

May 3 or 4

 

At worst we need a 4th / 5th starter type after 1 or 2 seasons.

Edited December 16, 20178 yr by Brandon

Sabathia signs a deal with the Yankees. 

 

That might take the Yankees out of the Cole sweepstakes. 

 

Might... I have no idea. 

I don't understand why the Yankees aren't aiming higher for pitching, frankly. 

Trying to stay focused on the Cole market...

 

The Pirates reportedly want Gleyber Torres in return for Cole. I would too. I don’t think they will get him. If they can approach that level the Twins don’t have the minor league assets to be in the Cole market.

From NYY's point of view, and it's all guesswork here, but I think Torres would be too much to give up for a Cole trade. However, a request for Torres might hopefully be Pittsburgh signaling their interest in a middle infielder over corner outfielder, which leads us back to Gordon.

 

I don't understand why the Yankees aren't aiming higher for pitching, frankly. 

They have Severino, Grey, Tanaka, Sabathia, and Montgomery for opening day and a couple solid pitching prospects - Adams and Sheffield - likely in AAA at the start of the year. Given the park and the division they play in that's probably enough and better to focus on a killer lineup and strong bullpen.

If we can sign Darvish, should we trade for Archer too?

 

With a rotation of Darvish, Archer, Santana, Berrios, and Gibson / May / Mejia with Gonsalves, Romero, Jorge, Sledgers, Kohl, Thorpe and more on the way. We could trade 3 of those pitching prospects plus Gordon and a lower level prospect or 2 to get Archer and not hurt our depth too much.

 

Darvish would be for 5 or 6 years

Archer for 4

Santana for 1 + 1

Berrios for 5

Gibson 2

May 3 or 4

 

At worst we need a 4th / 5th starter type after 1 or 2 seasons.

This is the homerun move that needs to happen if we want to contend. It's risky though.

 

It only makes sense to go after Darvish if you're going to get one more top SP

From NYY's point of view, and it's all guesswork here, but I think Torres would be too much to give up for a Cole trade. However, a request for Torres might hopefully be Pittsburgh signaling their interest in a middle infielder over corner outfielder, which leads us back to Gordon.

Wouldn't it just be a signal they want an elite prospect?

A lot of the offseason talk was Gordon plus Gonsalves/Romero. I think we are more likely in Lewis plus Gordon territory now.

I don't really see how Kepler enters the equation for the Pirates. I think they will go for prospects (and top ones) if they start trading.

If we can sign Darvish, should we trade for Archer too?

With a rotation of Darvish, Archer, Santana, Berrios, and Gibson / May / Mejia with Gonsalves, Romero, Jorge, Sledgers, Kohl, Thorpe and more on the way. We could trade 3 of those pitching prospects plus Gordon and a lower level prospect or 2 to get Archer and not hurt our depth too much.

Darvish would be for 5 or 6 years

Archer for 4

Santana for 1 + 1

Berrios for 5

Gibson 2

May 3 or 4

At worst we need a 4th / 5th starter type after 1 or 2 seasons.

How do you intend to trade for Archer and retain all your top pitching prospects?

 

That seems rather unlikely.

I think a lot of Twins fans over value Kepler at this point. Not hitting LH pitching hurts his value a lot, imo.

 

Frazier has the two extra years of control and he still has the high prospect shine on as he hasn't played enough for any big flaws to show up.

Think he will hit lefties. He has too good of a swing not to.....he’ll figure it out.

How do you intend to trade for Archer and retain all your top pitching prospects?

 

That seems rather unlikely.

I dont, we have Gonsalves, Romero, Sledgers, Jorge. Thorpe, Mejia, May Kohl Stewart and Littell and more. Im saying trade a few of these and Gordon and some A ballers...5 or 6 prospects total. But only after we sign Darvish. I wouldnt want to trade that much without signing him too.

Edited December 17, 20178 yr by Brandon

 

I dont, we have Gonsalves, Romero, Sledgers, Jorge. Thorpe, Mejia, May Kohl Stewart and Littell and more. Im saying trade a few of these and Gordon and some A ballers...5 or 6 prospects total. But only after we sign Darvish. I wouldnt want to trade that much without signing him too.

 

To be frank...it's more likely we simply don't have the pieces for Archer.  Which may be why we're more closely associated with Cole.  You can't cobble together C-list prospects and get an ace and while I like the long term potential of some of these prospects, they aren't lighting up anyone's prospect radar.

This is the homerun move that needs to happen if we want to contend. It's risky though.

It only makes sense to go after Darvish if you're going to get one more top SP

100% agree with this. If the Twins were to sign Darvish, pry Archer away and have Berrios take another step this year (personally I think he will take a BIG step) the rotation would be top 5. Pair that with a potentially top 5 defense and above average offense and you have a recipe for winning big. I’d still go after Cole either way and see what it would take. At worst it can drive up the price the Yankees have to pay if they truly want him, a good consolation prize.

Use said prospects to get Archer. 2 years of Cole isn't enough.

It's going to take a lot more than that to get Archer or Odorizzi the Rays have stated as such. Any team attempting to get either one will really have to "extend" themselves.

 

Twins had better be careful here. If they are serious about getting a top of the rotation pitcher this offseason the Yankees and Cubs are swooping in for Cole and Darvish already.

Edited December 17, 20178 yr by laloesch

 

It's going to take a lot more than that to get Archer or Odorizzi the Rays have stated as such. Any team attempting to get either one will really have to "extend" themselves.

Twins had better be careful here. If they are serious about getting a top of the rotation pitcher this offseason the Yankees and Cubs are swooping in for Cole and Darvish already.

I wouldn't give up a single top 20 Twins propsect for Odorizzi. His 2016 was medicore and his 2017 was pretty terrible. I'll gladly take my chances with Aldeberto Mejia.  We might be able to get Archer, but it would likely require giving up Royce Lewis, plus a bunch more. I'd rather go after Darvish and Cole aggressively, and if those don't pan out, look to trade at the deadline if we are still in contention for a wild card spot.

Edited December 17, 20178 yr by nytwinsfan

I wouldn't give up a single top 20 Twins propsect for Odorizzi. His 2016 was medicore and his 2017 was pretty terrible. I'll gladly take my chances with Aldeberto Mejia.  We might be able to get Archer, but it would likely require giving up Royce Lewis, plus a bunch more. I'd rather go after Darvish and Cole aggressively, and if those don't pan out, look to trade at the deadline if we are still in contention for a wild card spot.

Hmmmm....well the Cubs are in on Darvish now and the Yankees are going after Cole so there goes that idea.