Article: Supplementing the Twins: A Bat for Hire

[rv78]

Not sure why anyone thinks Frazier would be a good acquisition. Just because he can play 3B if Sano can't is a poor reason. Escobar proved he is more than capable of filling in. In fact, in 2017 Escobar almost matched Frazier in Home Runs per AB, hit 40 points higher than Frazier, is just as capable defensively, is younger, and cheaper. 

As for Santana, why would the Indians let him go, especially to a division rival, and on top of that he isn't going to replace the Golden Boy at 1st or at DH. If Sano can't play 3B then you got too many bats vying for the 1B/DH spot.

Bautista at this point would be another dumpster dive as his BA and HR stats have declined the last 3 years. He's toast. Better to spend money elsewhere.

[Mr. Brooks]

Not sure why anyone thinks Frazier would be a good acquisition. Just because he can play 3B if Sano can't is a poor reason. Escobar proved he is more than capable of filling in. In fact, in 2017 Escobar almost matched Frazier in Home Runs per AB, hit 40 points higher than Frazier, is just as capable defensively, is younger, and cheaper.

As for Santana, why would the Indians let him go, especially to a division rival, and on top of that he isn't going to replace the Golden Boy at 1st or at DH. If Sano can't play 3B then you got too many bats vying for the 1B/DH spot.

Bautista at this point would be another dumpster dive as his BA and HR stats have declined the last 3 years. He's toast. Better to spend money elsewhere.

Frazier is a much better defender than Escobar.

I know Escobar can play multiple positions, and that versatility is nice, but he's a well below average defender.

[The Wise One]

If you want a DH the Cubs have one that stands out in LF. I would think an outfielder and a pitcher would work in trade,

[Platoon]

I think it's a little easy to be harsh on Kennys Vargas.

Everybody wants the David Ortiz of 2016, but this is where Kennys ranks in the stats among the 23 players who had 100 PA or more in 2017 as DH:

 

wRC+.... 10th

OPS........ 8th

WAR........ 9th

Above average in each of these stats.

Not Chili Davis, but not Jason Tyner, either.

I would assume I am not the only one surprised by these numbers. And he gives Mauer a few days off. Sort of like the Robbie G. situation, but with some power. Hits somewhat, but the glove work makes one squeamish. EE provides temporary protection for Sano, but I imagine next summer will be the decision year on Sano. On field player? DH? Or trade for pitching? I think the Twins offense is sufficient enough to start the season somewhat as is. I like Carlos Santana, but he is not money well spent for this team, nor is Frazier.

[Platoon]

This topic made me think of the Twins as a three legged stool, missing one leg. The pitching leg. You can keep adding to the other two legs all off season. But it's still gonna be missing that third leg come spring!

Edited November 11, 2017 by Platoon

[The Wise One]

 

I think it's a little easy to be harsh on Kennys Vargas.

Everybody wants the David Ortiz of 2016, but this is where Kennys ranks in the stats among the 23 players who had 100 PA or more in 2017 as DH:

 

wRC+.... 10th

OPS........ 8th

WAR........ 9th

Above average in each of these stats.

Not Chili Davis, but not Jason Tyner, either.

Vargas's stats any other year would be 20th. For whatever reason it was a down year for DH. He was also ranked at 37 for his skills at 1B

[Roaddog]

I'd be ok with Bautista on a minor league deal. No interest in Frazier.

[rv78]

 

Frazier is a much better defender than Escobar.
I know Escobar can play multiple positions, and that versatility is nice, but he's a well below average defender.

Escobar had 6 errors in 79 games at 3B, Frazier had 13 in 133 games, very comparable. Maybe Escobar's range isn't quite as good but Frazier isn't getting any younger so his range will continue to deteriorate. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I'm speculating many of you, including the author don't watch other teams. Someone mentioned Frazer. So let's score these players, Frazer is a D player, power, terrible at bats. Santana, C-, a player who did what most do in their contract year, respectable. Vargas, for sure D, like one guy said, he's just not a good MLB player. The FA market is filled with "C" players that teams will overpay so people who don't follow baseball will think the team is trying to get good players whereby the GM is just trying to save his job. Why do you think they released Palka, Twins Trivia, how many teams has Adam Brett Walker been with? How about an on base guy, someone if you needed a bat who took walks, good singles hitter, go long in the count. You remember those players? Why pay 8 mill to a .220 hitter with 28.697% strikeouts?

 

You have some interesting standards... Vargas posted a .758 OPS in his age 26 season, making him slightly better than league average with the bat. Santana was an all around better player and will likely sign a very large multi-year deal. That's not a C- guy.

 

I'll simply note that we are talking bench bats here and a part time DH. Santana will want to be a starter, so again, I don't see how Santana makes any sense to this club. I'd be fine with Vargas and/or Park sitting around as a bench bat (though I really want Mauer taking some reps at 3B and RF this spring).

 

They aren't bad options, with the only real issue being defensive flexibility. With Granite in AAA, Adrianza, and Escobar, I think we are covered if we need defense and want some offense on the bench, so long as we make sure the pen has some better options allowing Molitor to have 5 bench bats.

[jimmer]

I'm hoping beyond hope the team DOESN'T put Mauer anywhere near 3B or the outfield.  He's an exceptional fielder at 1B who saves the other IF (and by extension the pitching staff) and having him, at 35, try to tackle new positions would be disastrous with no benefit.

Edited November 11, 2017 by jimmer

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

You have some interesting standards... Vargas posted a .758 OPS in his age 26 season, making him slightly better than league average with the bat. Santana was an all around better player and will likely sign a very large multi-year deal. That's not a C- guy.

 

I'll simply note that we are talking bench bats here and a part time DH. Santana will want to be a starter, so again, I don't see how Santana makes any sense to this club. I'd be fine with Vargas and/or Park sitting around as a bench bat (though I really want Mauer taking some reps at 3B and RF this spring).

 

They aren't bad options, with the only real issue being defensive flexibility. With Granite in AAA, Adrianza, and Escobar, I think we are covered if we need defense and want some offense on the bench, so long as we make sure the pen has some better options allowing Molitor to have 5 bench bats.

Some excellent points, except for the Mauer thing.

[Winston Smith]

It could work if you rotated Mauer and Santana at 1B and DH. Santana certainly is better than Grossman. Mauer could probably use more DH time as he gets older.

 

Problem would be if Sano isn't ready to play in the field, move him back to RF? (joke).

 

The Indians are kind of up against salary limits I've read so they may not have the money to re-sign him

[kab21]

If Sano was going to play 150 games at 3B then I would definitely like to get Carlos Santana. I have no confidence about Sano playing every day at 3B though so I don't think the Twins can add a full time DH unless that player can also play elsewhere (not 1B). 

 

Todd Frazier is a player that makes sense in some role of rotating at DH and 3B. The goal isn't to replace Escobar since his versatility makes him useful everywhere. Frazier is a much better defender at 3B and adds a very good RH'd bat to the lineup and he can play a defensive position (very well) unlike Vargas (limited to 1B) or Grossman (poor in the OF).

 

I am all for signing Frazier as long as the signing doesn't significantly impact any pitching moves.

[Mr. Brooks]

Escobar had 6 errors in 79 games at 3B, Frazier had 13 in 133 games, very comparable. Maybe Escobar's range isn't quite as good but Frazier isn't getting any younger so his range will continue to deteriorate.

Errors to games tells me next to nothing about quality of defense. There is so much more to defense than just errors. In fact, the player with more errors is often the better defender, because he makes an error on a ball that the other guy wouldn't have even gotten to.

Frazier was 1.5 defensive WAR better than Escobar last year, that is a pretty big difference.

Who knows what happens down the road, but right now their defense isn't comparable to each other.

[jimmer]

Todd Frazier had 10 DRS (4th in MLB for 3B) and was 3rd in UZR. 

 

Escobar had -5 DRS and a negative UZR.  He was as bad as Sano in pretty much the same amount of innings. 

 

The only thing Escobar had on Sano was range.  26 3Bs had 650 or more innings played.  Escobar ranked 20th in RZR, Sano was 25th.

Edited November 12, 2017 by jimmer

[caninatl04]

I think you meant to write that Frazier had a .366 OBP, not OPS.

[by jiminy]

 

Carlos Santana plays the same position as Joe Mauer and this team needs 1/3 of the payroll paid to what are currently middle of the pack 1B.

In an average payroll Mauer's salary would only be a sixth of the total. If we had an average payroll we could be competitive.  Until we do, we won't be. The problem is not Mauer, it's the missing pitchers.

[jimmer]

In an average payroll Mauer's salary would only be a sixth of the total. If we had an average payroll we could be competitive. Until we do, we won't be. The problem is not Mauer, it's the missing pitchers.

Not only that, but 23 X 3= 69. Mauer's salary was more like 1/4 of the Twins payroll.

 

And yeah, Mauer wasn't worth 23M this year, but he was worth around 18M and I'm sure every IF and pitcher was happy to have his defense at 1B.

Edited November 15, 2017 by jimmer