Article: Ranking The Rule 5 Options

[Seth Stohs]

 

As Pertaining to Navaretto,

 

When it comes to judging catcher value, I have no idea what I am talking about, and neither does anybody else.  Juan Centeno just won a WS ring.  Turner stuck all year.  Butera, Murphy have value.  I have to surmise there aren't 60 elite MLB caliber catchers in the world, defensively speaking.  If Navaretto is "elite" defensively, well...trade him for something.  

 

This is well put... teams value catcher defense tremendously. 

[nicksaviking]

Houston in 2012 started a certain 21 year old who hit .276/.297/.357 with 2 HR in 234 PAs. This guy will likely be the 2017 AL MVP. Rebuilding teams do not care about the present, they care about the future, and Diaz likely (need to look at the list) will have the highest potential among the available first basemen. No competitive team will pick him, but there are the Marlins and Reds and Pardes of the world out there...

I highly doubt any team is going to view Diaz as a middle infield candidate.

 

How many teams even carry a bench player who is strictly confined to playing 1B anymore? Let alone a guy who certainly can't hit MLB pitching.

 

No one cares about first base anymore. You can get a half dozen guys who can post a .750 OPS for a couple million bucks each year in free agency. It has become an afterthought of a position; these days the Rule V is mostly made up of pitchers with a handful of defensive minded middle infielders and toolsy outfielders.

[Vanimal46]

Every year we're concerned about losing players to other teams. And every year it proves not to matter. I'd protect the givens minus Diaz, and Thorpe. If any other team selects the rest of the guys, good luck to them. Odds are they won't make an impact, and will be sold back to the Twins at a later date. 

[drjim]

 

Every year we're concerned about losing players to other teams. And every year it proves not to matter. I'd protect the givens minus Diaz, and Thorpe. If any other team selects the rest of the guys, good luck to them. Odds are they won't make an impact, and will be sold back to the Twins at a later date. 

 

I would say any reliever on this list that was healthy and didn't make it on the 25 man this season is probably ok to leave unprotected.

 

I would keep Stewart one more year though.

[Mike Sixel]

Thorpe is a lock to me.

[MileHighTwinsFan]

It will be fascinating to see through their 40 man roster decisions how they see the current state of their pitching staff.  I would suspect that these decisions will provide the greatest insights on how they intend to build a competitive staff from within.   Will they hoard arms or will they make some distinct choices about the types of arms they believe will contribute and soon.  

[bluechipper]

 

Houston in 2012 started a certain 21 year old who hit .276/.297/.357 with 2 HR in 234 PAs.  This guy will likely be the 2017 AL MVP.  Rebuilding teams do not care about the present, they care about the future, and Diaz likely (need to look at the list) will have the highest potential among the available first basemen.   No competitive team will pick him, but there are the Marlins and Reds and Pardes of the world out there...

Just for the sake of arguing, the 3 teams you listed have established 1B on their roster, and no team is going to waste a bench spot for 1B only guy.

[Deduno Abides]

Stewart or Jorge?

Diaz or Palka?

Burdi or R. Rosario?

 

I’d probably go with the first in all three sets.

 

Palka would be the one I’d miss the most, so I’d try to trade him now.

[Deduno Abides]

Re: Navaretto:   Unless he can hit his way out of a paper bag (.550 OPS this season), he does not belong to this discussion.   Rainis Silva should be on the bubble, since a. he is better as a catcher and b. seems to have learned how to hit his way out of a paper back last season.

 

Yes. It’s sort of Hoover damming (family site), but Turner is a much better hitter than Navaretto.

[Wizard11]

I think a reasonable argument can be made for cutting Phil Hughes loose. I think it is unlikely he is looked at as a future contributor and he is a sunk cost regardless. If he is only improbable at best as a future asset, why use a roster spot on him?

[Cory Engelhardt]

I know he hasn't shown a penchant for strikeouts yet, but I would put Stewart in the must keep territory for one more offseason at the very least, just to be able to say for certain that Falvey et al can't get him turned around. I'd even do it over Jake Reed, as there are a number of minor league options for relievers, and with the Twins inability to develop starting pitching, I'd rather keep guys that have a potential to start over guys that don't.

[ahart10]

I would like to see Gibson & Grossman traded in a package together with some of these fringe guys, while paying G&G salaries.

 

Releasing Hughes also make sense. Or including his salary in a trade somehow, though not likely.

 

Edit: Make these moves to free up 40 man spots for the youngsters.

Edited November 4, 2017 by ahart10

[ashbury]

I would like to see Gibson & Grossman traded in a package together with some of these fringe guys, while paying G&G salaries.

Not many teams are gonna have 40-man room to help us clear ours all in one swell foop.

[Rosterman]

 

I would like to see Gibson & Grossman traded in a package together with some of these fringe guys, while paying G&G salaries.

Releasing Hughes also make sense. Or including his salary in a trade somehow, though not likely.

Edit: Make these moves to free up 40 man spots for the youngsters.

Ye, do yuou need Grossman AND Granite? Do you need Mejia AND Jorge and Romero...or better yet, Goncalves. Especially if you do BUY a free agent pitcher.

 

The Twins do have tradable prospect pieces and would rather see them swing a deal for any of a number of prospects for a talent. Are Romero and Jorge tradebait, soon to be bypassed by someone else in the minors. Is Goncalves better than Gibson or Berrios right now? Not that I would trade Berrios, but...you need value or perceived value to trade players.

 

[Thrylos]

 

I think a reasonable argument can be made for cutting Phil Hughes loose. I think it is unlikely he is looked at as a future contributor and he is a sunk cost regardless. If he is only improbable at best as a future asset, why use a roster spot on him?

 

You don't really use a roster spot other than the off-season.

 

Here is the counter argument:  As long as Phil Hughes is on the 60-day DL, insurance plays a huge part of his salary.   If the Twins cut him, they have to pay his salary.

 

He could retire...

[kab21]

 

You don't really use a roster spot other than the off-season.

 

Here is the counter argument:  As long as Phil Hughes is on the 60-day DL, insurance plays a huge part of his salary.   If the Twins cut him, they have to pay his salary.

 

He could retire...

Is this true if they cut him specifically for medical reasons?

[The Wise One]

 

You don't really use a roster spot other than the off-season.

 

Here is the counter argument:  As long as Phil Hughes is on the 60-day DL, insurance plays a huge part of his salary.   If the Twins cut him, they have to pay his salary.

 

He could retire...

How much money would he be walking away from?  Other than a football player, could you remember a player doing that in baseball, basketball, soccer?  

[Twins33]

How much money would he be walking away from?  Other than a football player, could you remember a player doing that in baseball, basketball, soccer?

 

Adam Laroche walked away from 13 million. Gil Meche 12 million. Cuddyer gave up 12.5 million. I don't think it's that common but it happens.

 

If Hughes retired before next year it would be giving up 26.4 million. I don't think it's likely.

[beckmt]

Yes we need to make some trades to the less fortunate teams for a better talent or a major league pitcher.  This might be difficult, so the offseason should be interesting. 

[gunnarthor]

 

Adam Laroche walked away from 13 million. Gil Meche 12 million. Cuddyer gave up 12.5 million. I don't think it's that common but it happens.

If Hughes retired before next year it would be giving up 26.4 million. I don't think it's likely.

Nor should a player walk away from that money so the billionaire owners can save it.

[old nurse]

 

Houston in 2012 started a certain 21 year old who hit .276/.297/.357 with 2 HR in 234 PAs.  This guy will likely be the 2017 AL MVP.  Rebuilding teams do not care about the present, they care about the future, and Diaz likely (need to look at the list) will have the highest potential among the available first basemen.   No competitive team will pick him, but there are the Marlins and Reds and Pardes of the world out there...

Your teams  all have a better 1b prospect than Diaz and no DH.  The thought on his ceiling is correct. In the AL he could get time as a DH

[Thrylos]

 

How much money would he be walking away from?  Other than a football player, could you remember a player doing that in baseball, basketball, soccer?  

 

Nishioka

[Thrylos]

 

Is this true if they cut him specifically for medical reasons?

 

Cannot do that.  MLB contracts are guaranteed

[ashbury]

Cannot do that.  MLB contracts are guaranteed

I think the question is whether the insurance policy kicks in.

[kab21]

 

Cannot do that.  MLB contracts are guaranteed

He is definitely still getting paid but what clause in the insurance policy says that they can't cut a player for clear medical reasons and still collect insurance money?

[drjim]

He is definitely still getting paid but what clause in the insurance policy says that they can't cut a player for clear medical reasons and still collect insurance money?

I think digging into the Prince Fielder situation could shed some light. I'm personally not going to do it.

[ashbury]

I think digging into the Prince Fielder situation could shed some light. I'm personally not going to do it.

"prince fielder" insurance - Not my most challenging internet "dig" of the day.

 

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/texas-rangers/rangers/2017/10/04/prince-fielder-released-year-playing-last-game-rangers

 

It says in part:

 

The Rangers negotiated with the insurance carrier on the Fielder policy to allow them to release the player and still receive an annual benefit. It is believed the Rangers will essentially receive deferred payments, which reduces the current value of the policy.

 

And this from a year earlier:

 

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/texas-rangers/rangers/2016/07/21/rangers-lose-insurance-prince-fielders-24-million-salary

 

[T]he Rangers have an insurance policy on Fielder that pays 50 percent of his salary in the event of a long-term injury... they will not recoup any money in 2016. There is a 90-day deductible period before they can file a claim, and there are not 90 days left in the season.

 

 

[kab21]

 

I think digging into the Prince Fielder situation could shed some light. I'm personally not going to do it.

Great stuff. Looks like the Twins would have to negotiate with the insurance company to reduce the amount that they would pay if they cut him.

 

But do the Twins definitely have an insurance policy on Hughes? What portion of his contract? 

[The Wise One]

 

Adam Laroche walked away from 13 million. Gil Meche 12 million. Cuddyer gave up 12.5 million. I don't think it's that common but it happens.

If Hughes retired before next year it would be giving up 26.4 million. I don't think it's likely.

A person who walked away in a snit because the team would not allow his kid to be in the clubhouse every day, A guy who quit  because he did not want to have his labrum repaired, and a guy who is strongly rumored to have been hush hush paid off to retire.

[The Wise One]

 

Nishioka

Nishioka walked away from 3.5 to get a 1.5. Nishi for a career likely will not see 26 million, which some people think that Hughes should walk away from.