Article: Twins Trade Kintzler To Nationals

[h2oface]

 

Can we all remember that the beginning-of-the-season O/U wins total was 74? That they will easily meet that expectation while strengthening their minor league system through the draft, trades and international signings, means that the Twins' season must be considered a modest success.

Goals for the remainder of the season should include:
1. using the "found" half-million wisely,
2. Trying out as many minor-leaguers as possible, and, most importantly,
3. Finishing their one-year "top to bottom review" of the organization.

 

So you think that is a lock.... for a team with no pitching and a -72 run differential with 59 games left? 

 

Let's see, to win 74 games this season now, they would have to go 24-35. I have seen swoons by this team way worse than that. During the Dodger series, I kept telling myself it is the Dodgers.... everyone is losing to them and getting swept by them. But them I watched a pouting Dozier strike out 5 times in one game, Sano setting the MLB record for striking out, Taylor imploding..... hell, the whole pitching staff..... and do the same deer in the headlights against Oakland! They duplicated the futility against a last place team!.....

 

.....and a 24-35 record the rest of the season is sure not a lock in my eyes. Trade the whole damn bullpen if they want.......

Edited July 31, 2017 by h2oface

[twinssporto]

 

Somebody tell me how to feel about the return

I feel good about it.  Brandon is a great guy to have around, especially when your bullpen blows.  However, we need to build a staff/team full of good arms.  This is a good way to reach that goal.  Longer term I don't think Brandon has a lot left in the tank over the next two-three years...the $500k in international pool money really helps too.  

 

Hope to see Brandon pitching in the W.S.

[Bark's Lounge]

I love this time of year. It is entertaining. The same people calling to sell assets for some long shots and when they do it, they are not happy.

 

The Twins used some extra powerful fuel early in this season, but ran out of it. Their heads are barely above water in the present.

 

It was the smart play and IMO fair and square trades.

 

In these day in times, nobody is going to be happy from my observations.

[bighat]

I am disappointed to get a low-A pitcher. Dealing one of the best relievers on the market for a guy who is years away? The Twins couldn't have done better dealing Kintzler to another team? A lot of things have to go right for Watson to make an impact. Think the Twins could have done better. I do like that half a mill in cash, though.

[twinsnorth49]

Sad.

 

Twins had the type of team over the winter that was obviously ready for a step forward, but had some easily identifiable holes.

 

They do virtually nothing to address those holes, then watch as those holes tank a somewhat promising season.

 

Then dump, for what appears to be most likely org filler.

 

Not my idea of how I want this franchise run.

Pretty much this, concur.

[Elliot]

If I remember right the Twins only signed one of their top three international targets. The other two were not yet age eligible; birthdays later this summer.  If the extra 500k helps get those two signed once they become of age it could be very valuable as well.

[h2oface]

Anyone know who the Diamondbacks offered?

[twinssporto]

 

This likely won't be a very popular opinion, but the Twins gave up on this year for maybe five guys who:

a. probably don't rank in the top 15 in their organization and

b. probably don't rank in the top 300 in the minors and 

c. likely will make little to no difference in their future?

 

That's what Littell, Enns, & Watson are, right? And given the reliever market (which we just saw for Kintzler), they certainly wouldn't have needed to give up much to add a couple of competent relievers.

 

I know it's been a tough week, but this was a mistake. I don't get why they wouldn't ride it and chance the 9% chance they hat making the playoffs. It feels like panic. What did we gain exactly for giving up?

Here's something to ponder...or as many of our game thread intro's say: "here's something to think about"...)  Did anyone ever really feel comfortable with Brandon closing?  He was never a Rick Aguilera, Joe Nathan type guy.  Was he a dominate type of closer?  Not really.

 

Keeping Kintzler statistically, long term, was not going to work out well.  I think the Twins brain trust knew this and decided it was a great time to dump him and pick up some long-term potential.  

 

I do agree that Falvey and company have shown their hand and bailed on a potential playoff run.  As a fan its very disappointing.  From a business perspective I think it was shrewd.  

[Han Joelo]

I like Kintzler. He brought some good mojo to the team. I will be rooting for he and the Nats to knock off the Evil Empire West.

 

The chance to give this team a shot in the arm might have slipped by when the Garcia trade fell through originally. How deflating--we're getting help...no we're not, and the guy hits a grand slam that night. The tailspin started, and after that the mojo was gone.

 

My only hope is that young Byron Skywalker is ready to embrace his destiny.

[jimbo92107]

 

Most of he pitching the Twins have dealt for or drafted have one thing in common "above average Curveball". Most scouts indicate this as plus as it is hard to improve a curve. This must be a Falvine requirement.

 

Who closes now? 

Hildenberger and Busenitz. The latter has stuff that looks like a closer. Low fastballs and sliders to the corners. 

[Twodogs]

When did the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor?

 

It happened in Animal House. John Belushi's character was trying to rally the troops. He didn't want 9 years of college to go down the drain

[Craig Arko]

[jimbo92107]

 

Yep. It hasn't been a fun 10 days for those of us who wanted to be buyers and see this team try to contend this season. 

 

Let's hope it's an aggressive off-season.... 

The FO boys took a good look at this team, then they took a good look at this year's strongest teams, and after a good look, it didn't look good. 

 

They were just trying to be realistic. There wasn't enough talent available out there to sell the farm for a one-year shot, which isn't the Twins way anyhow. So instead, they're trying to sell off the players that won't be here in a few years, so they can bolster the farm system. We can expect more such moves between now and September, and during the winter.

 

There is no way the Twins should hang on to Dozier through the winter. With a raft of middle infielders rising through the minors, he should be dealt for more prospects. Meanwhile, the remainder of this season should see several guys get their first cuppa coffee in the bigs. From that we must derive whatever humble entertainment value we can. 

 

Let us welcome the new kids. Let's see as many of them as possible, and watch them run hard, throw hard, swing hard, and make rookie mistakes. 

[operation mindcrime]

T

[KirbyDome89]

Organizational depth certainly isn't a sexy return, but for a rental starter and a reliever they weren't likely to resign I can't complain too much. I had next to no faith the Twins were going to make it into the postseason, but the fact the regular season is already over still bums me out. The moves were better than the half measures we've become accustomed to but I was still hoping for a little more noise whether they decided to buy or sell. 

[old nurse]

 

Speaking only for myself, I'm disappointed that the self-fulfilling prophesy of "we can't compete with these holes" while doing nothing to fill those holes is somehow vindication for yet another wasted season.

 

   "Play for 2019" does nothing for me.  It's what the de-facto farm teams that always seem to be providing talent to the real teams do.

You can shuffle the holes with trades, but you will still have holes. Considering the need for a front line startre and two back end relievers, where was this going come from? That Levine wiggling his nose like Samantha Stevens?

[Twodogs]

I wouldn't mind seeing them try out Pressly as the closer. He has the stuff, he has pitched better as of late, he grades out as a closer, put him in the spot and see if he runs with it. He might all of the sudden blossom, I think it's better to try that rather than put Rodgers or Belisel in there.

[alarp33]

 

.

 

   "Play for 2019" does nothing for me.  It's what the de-facto farm teams that always seem to be providing talent to the real teams do.

 

Who said "play for 2019"?

 

I'm confused how losing Brandon Kintzler in a trade today effects the status of competing in 2018, considering he is a UFA this off season anyways

Edited August 1, 2017 by alarp33

[D.C Twins]

VERY impressed by the front office this last 2 weeks. Truly maximized return.

 

This team has a super exciting future but the were never, never, never, never, never......deep breath.....never a playoff team this year (and most likely next year)....

 

BUT I believe  this FO is building toward sustained success cerca 2019-1-2023.....good on them

[Obsvr]

This team out performed expectations early and has slid back to what they really have been all along.  Even if they made the playoffs, they would have had zero chance to get through NY or Houston.

 

Great moves to strengthen the system.  Guys who just got to AA or have the Stats in high A to warrant a move to AA within a year are the guys you want to target.  

 

Kintzler and Garcia simply were not worth a prospect(s) on the verge of being MLB ready.  

 

With Mauer being in his last year next year its not inconceivable that the FO wont sign an impact arm this off-season and another the following year..  Sprinkle in what we have in AA right now and you have the makings of solid staff in 2019.

 

The next couple of years look interesting with Berrios, Mejia, Gonsalves, Jorge, Romero, Littell, Rosario, Curtiss, Bard, Moya and a few others could round out a nice staff with a few veteran additions.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Obsvr

[Twodogs]

I think for the Twins to compete next year, which they could, they need to sign one big free agent SP this off season and maybe a cheaper scrap heap starter also for depth. Try the young guys that they have in the bull pen, a few of them should exceed expectations, if not get a RP at the end of spring training. But they have to spend on at least one good starter.

[LeatherAntenna]

To make the playoffs the Twins have to outperform at least 2 out of the CLE, KC, NYY, BOS, and TB group, to say nothing of the Mariners (1.5 up) and the Angels (only 0.5 back). Even with Kintzler, Garcia, and a couple more relievers, I don't think that happens. So rather than finish 84-78, and miss the wild card by 7ish games and the division by 9ish, then get nothing for Garcia, nothing for Kintzler, AND have a weaker farm system, we very much improved our depth, and can still sign both Garcia and Kintzler if we want. This was absolutely the right thing to do.

I keep hearing this comment 'we can sign Kintzler (back) if we want'. As if he will be this puppy dog hoping the Twins don't forget him. If Kintzler ends up in the playoffs or forbid in a World Series, I think other teams will want him and this puppy dog will cost the Twins more to sign than buying a Watson out somewhere else on the marketplace.

[LeatherAntenna]

I keep hearing this comment 'we can sign Kintzler (back) if we want'. As if he will be this puppy dog hoping the Twins don't forget him. If Kintzler ends up in the playoffs or forbid in a World Series, I think other teams will want him and this puppy dog will cost the Twins more to sign than buying a Watson out somewhere else on the marketplace.

and yes plus the international money, especially if Kintzler thrives in the playoffs.

[bighat]

The Twins traded Eduardo Nunez last year and got a guy who was MLB ready. The guy (Mejia) has been a work in progress this season but he's been at the very least a decent back end pitcher, this his rookie season. He is just 24 years old.

 

Will any of the prospects we received for Garcia and Kintzler be playing at Mejia's level by this time next season? Enns is 26 and at this point will be lucky to have a journeyman career. What about the rest of the dudes we acquired? Will any of them be "next year's Mejia"? Will Littell win 10 games in a Twins MLB uniform next year? Will Watson? If not, then what the heck were the Twins thinking? We've been "waiting 2 more years" forever and they keep pushing the end-date for this rebuild back.

[old nurse]

 

Do you doubt the second part?  

Do not go far, just look at what Liam Hendriks, Anthony Swarzak, Brian Duensing, and Jeff Manship did after they left for nothing...  And I should not even mention Pat Neshek and the way he was treated by the front office.

Manship is doing so well he is now pitching in Korea. Hendicks had one good year, but this year has an ERA approaching six. Duensing is doing a great job as mop up man. His leverage index being 0.7o, just slightly higher than Breslow for a comp.  Swarzak bounced through 2 different organizations before having success this year.   He fetched the Brewer's 17 best prospect. That is similar to what the Twins have received and Bonnes essentially said was worthless.

[alarp33]

 

The Twins traded Eduardo Nunez last year and got a guy who was MLB ready. The guy (Mejia) has been a work in progress this season but he's been at the very least a decent back end pitcher, this his rookie season. He is just 24 years old.

 

Will any of the prospects we received for Garcia and Kintzler be playing at Mejia's level by this time next season? Enns is 26 and at this point will be lucky to have a journeyman career. What about the rest of the dudes we acquired? Will any of them be "next year's Mejia"? Will Littell win 10 games in a Twins MLB uniform next year? Will Watson? If not, then what the heck were the Twins thinking? We've been "waiting 2 more years" forever and they keep pushing the end-date for this rebuild back.

 

So the baseline for making any trade should be "will the guy we acquire be the next Mejia?"

 

I can't tell if that is serious or not, but if you are genuinely curious if these guys can be the next Mejia, yes Littell should reach the majors at a younger age than Mejia did, and has at least a significantly better MILB track record than Mejia

Edited August 1, 2017 by alarp33

[Taildragger8791]

 

I keep hearing this comment 'we can sign Kintzler (back) if we want'. As if he will be this puppy dog hoping the Twins don't forget him. If Kintzler ends up in the playoffs or forbid in a World Series, I think other teams will want him and this puppy dog will cost the Twins more to sign than buying a Watson out somewhere else on the marketplace.

 

Kintzler himself already suggested it was a possibility, so obviously he doesn't share your sentiment. I also doubt he's too upset about getting to leap from a non-playoff team to a World Series contender where he can showcase himself for the only significant free agent contract he'll ever get.

[DJSim22]

 

You expect me to remember something that happened in the 70's?

 

When it comes to Animal House, yes. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

We'll disagree they now have 5 starters... There's still work to do in the off-season to hit that number. I know you posted the 2018 Rochester projected rotation which looks nice. Still not sure if they can help out in Minnesota next year or not. 

 

That's fair. I think they need at least one big SP FA move. I'm somewhat fine with the 5th spot being a rotating spot with May getting the first crack, but I don't want them walking into 2018 with Santana, Berrios, and Mejia only.

[kab21]

I have been against trading Ervin (unless blown away) and selling but both of these trades make sense. The players acquired aren't necessarily going to help in 2018 but they didn't trade away players that were signed for 2018 (like Ervin). And they did add a couple of legit prospects even if they aren't top 10 org guys although Littell is getting pretty close and could be an August/September option next year.

 

I have been wanting the Twins to pick up a piece like Garcia and a RP like Kintzler for weeks but things have changed. They are now 3 games below .500, 7 back of CLE and 4.5 back of the WC. At this point there is no reason no to sell players that are going to be FA's at the end of the season.

 

But these trades are small. What I like about this season (FO wise) is the decision making and lack of being conservative. They have manipulated the draft bonus slots to get the players they wanted. They absorbed Garcia's contract to get better prospects. They also got some int'l FA bonus pool slipped into the latest trade. There have been many arguments that not much has changed in the FO but these types of moves show creativity that just hasn't been present in the FO before. I hope we don't see anymore 'well, the Twins have never done anything like that before' comments.