Article: Twins 2, Dodgers 6: Twins Fall Below .500

[nicksaviking]

 

Dick Bremer tweeted out, "Video shows Lance Barrett looking at Paul Molitor's adjusted lineup card. Seems inexcusable for the umpire to misunderstand intended move."

 

Molitor said in the post-game his card was marked right.

 

The only two conclusions I can come to are that the umpire screwed up, or Molitor is lying about his lineup card.  I highly doubt Molitor is lying.

 

Or that what Molitor's lineup card said was different than what he was telling the umpire.

 

Or that Molitor didn't understand that his lineup card was marked wrong.

 

The umpire could have blown it, we don't really know what happened. But it seems like a huge coincidence that a screwup of this magnitude occurred with an AL team.
 

Not that this is something that I'd put any weight on when deciding Molitor's future, I don't care about an honest mistake. It happens.

[Dantes929]

 

Concur 100% with implementing pitch clocks. It works out so smoothly in AAA and AA from the games I've attended. 

Admittedly I did not watch the game last night as it was past my bedtime, so maybe Maeda was working slower than usual?

Fangraphs has a neat feature called Pace Calculator and I hate to break it to everyone, but Maeda is not close to the worst out there.... In fact, the Twins now have 3 pitchers in the top 25 slowest paced SP! Jaime Garcia #12 at 25.7 seconds between pitches, Kyle Gibson #14 at 25.4 seconds, and Jose Berrios #23 at 24.8 seconds. 

When I was watching, Morris was calling out the time between pitches.    Mauer's walk took forever.   Once, Maeda stepped off the rubber and Morris said it was 48 seconds that he was staring in and then didn't even pitch the ball.     All of them seemed to take well over 30 seconds.   Problem with taking over 30 seconds is that if a batter doesn't lose patience he will probably call timeout himself so he can go through his routine again and who can blame him?    Maybe Maeda was slower than normal.   Gibson on the list doesn't shock me but I am a bit surprised that Berrios is on the list.

[Cap'n Piranha]

In the standings section, are you trying to show how far the Tigers and White Sox are behind the Twins? Because the Tigers are indeed 4 back of us, 8.5 of the Indians, but the Sox are 9 back of the Twins, 13.5 of the Indians.

[Seth Stohs]

 

So, you think Molitor did nothing wrong? That everyone else was wrong?

 

All we have to go on is Molitor's word, and I have no reason to believe he's making something up. We haven't heard from the ump or the league. We haven't heard any audio from that conversation. Until we know what was said specifically. 

 

It was just such an obvious double-switch that it's hard to understand how it went so strange. 

[Seth Stohs]

 

Please explain how the umpires "handled it horribly."

Specifically.

 

If Molitor told the ump Belisle for Rosario, and yet the ump doesn't notice that Pressly is coming in that Polanco and not Rosario is coming out... something weird happened. No one appears to be innocent in this. Guilt can go all around. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

As for the double switch controversy, let's just add the DH to the NL. Problem solved.

 

For pace of play, give the pitcher 20 seconds from gloving the ball to throwing the pitch, so long as the batter is also in the box. Allow a batter one timeout per AB, and prohibit him from stepping out of the box in between pitches. Limit catchers to three mound visits per game, with a 30 second limit. Starters are limited to one trip from a pitching coach, relievers as a whole get one visit from the pitching coach. Failure by the batter to observe the rules is a strike, failure by the pitcher to observe the rules is a ball, and an extra visit by a catcher or coach is an automatic walk where every base runner advances a base. If the bases are empty, it's a two-base walk, to ensure visits aren't used as intentional walks.

[Vanimal46]

 

When I was watching, Morris was calling out the time between pitches.    Mauer's walk took forever.   Once, Maeda stepped off the rubber and Morris said it was 48 seconds that he was staring in and then didn't even pitch the ball.     All of them seemed to take well over 30 seconds.   Problem with taking over 30 seconds is that if a batter doesn't lose patience he will probably call timeout himself so he can go through his routine again and who can blame him?    Maybe Maeda was slower than normal.   Gibson on the list doesn't shock me but I am a bit surprised that Berrios is on the list.

 

If that's the case, then yeah, that's way too long between pitches. It seems like every year MLB tries to emphasize improving pace of play, but never truly enforce it. 

 

EDIT: Also, at first I didn't see Maeda on the Fangraphs' Pace list, but there he is tucked in at #20 with 25 seconds between pitches. So he also works at a slow pace normally. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Vanimal46

[drjim]

 

"you can't expect them all to be Mike Trout"......or Bellinger, or Machado, or Seager, or about 20 other young players. I'm so tired of "they are young" as an excuse all the time.

 

Does Sano make your list?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Does Sano make your list?

 

yes, for sure.

[nytwinsfan]

I'm going to be that ass hole guy and say I TOLD YOU WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SELLERS.  There is still time to get on the seller bandwagon.

[Vanimal46]

 

I'm going to be that ass hole guy and say I TOLD YOU WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SELLERS.  There is still time to get on the seller bandwagon.

Who are you selling? And who's going to offer value for what the Twins are offering?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm going to be that ass hole guy and say I TOLD YOU WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SELLERS.  There is still time to get on the seller bandwagon.

Well, anything about the game itself last night?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Dick Bremer tweeted out, "Video shows Lance Barrett looking at Paul Molitor's adjusted lineup card. Seems inexcusable for the umpire to misunderstand intended move."

 

Molitor said in the post-game his card was marked right.

 

The only two conclusions I can come to are that the umpire screwed up, or Molitor is lying about his lineup card.  I highly doubt Molitor is lying.

 

Or that Dick Bremer is reporting inaccurate information. I just watched the video, the umpire does glance down at Molitor's lineup card while he is retrieving his own card, but this was just after they spoke, before Molitor writes on it.

 

Isn't on Molitor to look over at the umpire's card?  Or simply ask to see it after the ump has written it down?  Not that the umpire should be sloppy, but Molitor is the guy with the vested interest in the outcome of the move.  (Bremer too, I guess )

 

Heck, Roberts actually came out to talk with the umpires as the switch was happening.  Molitor probably should have made it his beeswax to go over there and make sure they were all on the same page, and the whole matter could have been avoided.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

if the Twins dont make the playoffs Molitor should be gone? With the talent on this team (especially on the pitching side) the fact this team has held on this long in contention is quite something.

 

There are reasons to fire Molitor, but a team that shouldnt make the playoffs (based on talent level) not making the playoffs isnt one of them.

This team without Buxton or Sano will struggle to play .500 ball for long. That said, the secondary pieces are good, but Polanco and Granite could easily have been replaced with Adrianza and Grossman, with Kepler or Rosario in center. That right there is a better lineup than what Molitor drew up. At least until Polanco gets straightened out. Granite has no business hitting second right now. Maybe in the future someday.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Who are you selling? And who's going to offer value for what the Twins are offering?

Santana, Kintzler, Dozier, maybe Escobar and Rosario. Not sure. If nobody offers something that makes it worth while, then obviously don't pull the trigger. But the point is it doesn't seem like we've been trying to sell under the mistaken, albeit sympathetic view that we have much of a chance of making the playoffs.

 

Well, anything about the game itself last night?

Why would I want to talk about that ****show?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Why would I want to talk about that ****show?

Because this is the thread for talking about the game?

[h2oface]

 

This spiraled out of control quickly. They were a half game out just a few days ago.

This is why I preferred they sell. This was inevitable. Now they're just a losing team with a bunch of old soon-expiring contracts (Santana, Dozier, Garcia, Mauer, etc), out of which they didn't pull any residual value.

 

And it can spiral right back on top! Nothing a 10 game winning streak doesn't cure. I don't throw in the towel, yet. It is going to happen to one or two of the teams in the Central. It already happened to KC (who are my pick to win the division), and got them right at the top. Hey....... the Twins had a 9 game run of lost one/won one, and basically played .500 ball coming out of the All-star break, and then ran into the LA Dodgers, who are only 34-6 in their last 40 games! It isn't just the Twins failing when the Dodgers have landed on their schedule. This has been happening to all the teams that are playing the Dodgers. These guys know how to win, and when the rally starts, the buzz is on, and everyone on the team emotes it and expects to get a hit and continue it, and every one in the stands feels it. It is quite remarkable what is happening right now. This is a team that has a ton of earned confidence. The feeling is infectious to all in its presence. 

 

I am glad the Twins didn't take Jose De Leon. Just like the Nationals pawning off Meyer for Span, there is a reason the Dodgers insisted the trade for a second baseman would be De Leon no matter who they traded with. The Dodgers felt he was not elite, and wanted to move him. Check out how his season has been, even if you don't consider he was out for a month and a half. For this FO to be successful, it is important they make the call and identification early with prospects, make early choices and prune redundancy, rather than holding them, paralyzed by hope, while they stall in AA or AAA and lose their value. 

 

Mauer can't lose anymore value, and could just gain some with a burst that has been coming for years (right? it has to be coming......). Garcia is a cheap rental, and could really help, and I don't see how he could hurt. Dozier is due to get hot..... and Santana can too, and often, in his career, has the mid season lull and comes on again. Plus, the guys need to gel and perform as a team. I think there is a new manager next year, just because Molitor's contract expires, and the FO guys made a deal they are honoring in his case, but can pick their own guy after this year. I don't throw in the towel at this point, that is for sure.

Edited July 26, 2017 by h2oface

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

And it can spiral right back on top! Nothing a 10 game winning streak doesn't cure. I don't throw in the towel, yet. It is going to happen to one or two of the teams in the Central. It already happened to KC (who are my pick to win the division), and got them right at the top. Hey....... the Twins had a 9 game run of lost one/won one, and basically played .500 ball coming out of the All-star break, and then ran into the LA Dodgers, who are only 34-6 in their last 40 games! It isn't just the Twins failing when the Dodgers have landed on their schedule. This has been happening to all the teams that are playing the Dodgers. These guys know how to win, and when the rally starts, the buzz is on, and everyone on the team emotes it and expects to get a hit and continue it, and every one in the stands feels it. It is quite remarkable what is happening right now. This is a team that has a ton of earned confidence. The feeling is infectious to all in its presence. 

 

I am glad the Twins didn't take Jose De Leon. Just like the Nationals pawning off Meyer for Span, there is a reason the Dodgers insisted the trade for a second baseman would be De Leon no matter who they traded with. The Dodgers felt he was not elite, and wanted to move him. Check out how his season has been, even if you don't consider he was out for a month and a half. For this FO to be successful, it is important they start make the call and identification early with prospects, make early choices and prune redundancy, rather than holding them, paralyzed by hope, while they stall in AA or AAA and lose their value. 

 

Mauer can't lose anymore value, and could just gain some with a burst that has been coming for years (right? it has to be coming......). Garcia is a cheap rental, and could really help, and I don't see how he could hurt. Dozier is due to get hot..... and Santana can too, and often, in his career, has the mid season lull and comes on again. Plus, the guys need to gel and perform as a team. I think there is a new manager next year, just because Molitor's contract expires, and the FO guys made a deal they are honoring in his case, but can pick their own guy after this year. I don't throw in the towel at this point, that is for sure.

Great post. The pennant chase is slipping out of their grasp, let's see how they respond.

[bighat]

 

While I generally agree that the team hasn't been great in those situations, the inning you reference (When Berrios and Dozier struck out), Zack Granite came through with a two-out RBI single. 

 

Yes, Granite did come through there.  Then Mauer walked to load them up again and Escobar grounded out. Just so many wasted opportunities to get crooked numbers.

 

Dozier has been absolutely awful this series at the plate. He struck out with the bases loaded and less-than-2-outs in both games.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Yes, Granite did come through there.  Then Mauer walked to load them up again and Escobar grounded out. Just so many wasted opportunities to get crooked numbers.

 

Dozier has been absolutely awful this series at the plate. He struck out with the bases loaded and less-than-2-outs in both games.

 

I mean, with two outs, to score you have to get a hit... Aren't the odds of that generally going to be about 1 in 4 or maybe 3 in 10?

 

Striking out with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs hurts a lot... getting out with two outs doesn't bother me. 

[bighat]

 

 

 

Striking out with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs hurts a lot.... 

 

Kepler did that in game 1. Dozier did that in both games.

Edited July 27, 2017 by bighat

[Seth Stohs]

 

Kepler did that in game 1. Dozier did that in both games.

 

It hurts a lot, but it happens. They're obviously not trying to strike out.