Article: Surprises Mark Twins Opening Day Roster

[howeda7]

I get that the new regime has their own way of doing things and this is temporary. But not keeping Park is now the main headline heading into the season. It's not worth the amount of flack they are taking to keep whoever they consider the 8th BP guy to be. Park 2.0 was one of the few intriguing story lines in the every day line up and no one wants to spend time or money watching Robbie Grossman. 

[Penthang]

Gimenez and Kepler both play first base.

[Gagne Fan]

This is BUSINESS not baseball. Until the Twins become concerned with putting the best BASEBALL team on the field, we are looking at 75+ loses per season.

Park EARNED his spot and was sent to AAA.

Looks a lot like last year when guys like Baxendale EARNED promotions but were bypassed by guys like Albers + Dean.

 

This sends an awful message...

[mlhouse]

Short term?  SOme of these guys will be geriatrics in the short term. 

 

What is the point of this roster?  To lose another 100 games but not get an inning of MLB development time for any of the pitching prospects?

 

I was hoping new general management would change this process to expedite the rebuild, but the ages of the players they have selected is frightenng.

 

Our bullpen consists of arms over the age of 30, Kintzler 32, Belisle 36, Breshaw 36, and marginal arms like Pressly 28, Rogers 26, Tonkin 27. O'Rourke 29 and Duffey 26.  

 

We only have one pitcher that is could even be considered to be a prospect in Adalberto Mejia and arguably Rule 5 pick Justin Haley remaining with the big league team.  What is of continued interest to me is the continuous preference of this team to prefer players developed in other organizations to their own in that Berrios and Chargois have much better minor league credentials than these two guys. But out of 13 pitchers on the staff heading north, these two are the only ones under the age of 27.  

 

Think about that.

 

ANd, it is continued with their preference at backup catcher, taking a 34 year old journeyman over their own catching prospect, Mitch Garver.  But, at the rate they are developing their players Garver will be in their target age 30+ by the time they give him a shot.  

 

This is ridiculouos and it is silly.  It is one thing to lose with inexperienced prospect.  It is another to lose with no-name journeymen that arent even fun to watch. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

True the Twins prefer their starters to be consistent.................ly terrible (see: Pelfrey)

speaking of which, he's a FA...

 

^{ducks and runs}

[teamtech]

Is Park being held back similar to Kris Bryant after a stellar spring...pure economics? you have done a great job of covering a vast organization in a very short time.  Keep up the good work Seth.  I enjoy reading and being informed.

[PopRiveter]

Excluding Park is an insult that should offend every player on the team. Sends a real bad message.

I've lost a little faith in Falvey/Levine over this one.

Certainly less anxious for opening day when granted the opportunity to cheer for Grossman at DH and Haley as #13 unused pitcher on bench.

 

It's just deflating for me as a fan. 

[USAFChief]

 

Is Park being held back similar to Kris Bryant after a stellar spring...pure economics? you have done a great job of covering a vast organization in a very short time.  Keep up the good work Seth.  I enjoy reading and being informed.

Park is already signed to a contract, so it's not an economic issue.

[beckmt]

 

Excluding Park is an insult that should offend every player on the team. Sends a real bad message.

I've lost a little faith in Falvey/Levine over this one.

Certainly less anxious for opening day when granted the opportunity to cheer for Grossman at DH and Haley as #13 unused pitcher on bench.

 

It's just deflating for me as a fan. 

Haley and Duffey have 2 different roles.  Haley is for when you are down 6-1 in the 3rd and need innings. Duffey is for when starter is ineffective and ballgame is close (ahead or behind by 2 or less).  I feel there was an issue with starters not being stretched out and you may need more than one long reliever for a couple of weeks.

I feel FO gave Molitor most of what he wanted(this is probably not there direction).  TR lost the power struggle last year, I presume they do not want one this year.  By giving Molitor most of what he wants, he will not have the fallback of the FO undercutting how he wants to run the team.  And at sometime this year he is fired.

[beckmt]

I feel that the fallback plan is that Sano may be the backup 1B and DH if he is too brutal in the field at 3B and Molitor starts complaining about his defense.  Putting Park on the roster now could well lose him if this is how it plays out.  Escobar or Polanco become the 3rd baseman and DanSan is the utility player.  I hope this is not the case, but it is the only way this roster makes any sense.

[alarp33]

 

Haley and Duffey have 2 different roles.  Haley is for when you are down 6-1 in the 3rd and need innings. Duffey is for when starter is ineffective and ballgame is close (ahead or behind by 2 or less).  I feel there was an issue with starters not being stretched out and you may need more than one long reliever for a couple of weeks.

 

 

You never need 2 long men, especially with 2 off days in the 1st 8 days of the season. I don't know why people are so willing to believe this organizations propoganda

[Squirrel]

You never need 2 long men, especially with 2 off days in the 1st 8 days of the season. I don't know why people are so willing to believe this organizations propoganda

And I wonder if Molitor will even use them and not resort to ... Tonkin ... as the long man. I don't know if I agree with some opinions here, but many think Tonkin was misused last year. But since Tonkin is there, what's stopping Molitor from using him in the wrong role again?

 

Blech. I don't think I'm making sense this morning, even for me.

[Squirrel]

Haley and Duffey have 2 different roles.  Haley is for when you are down 6-1 in the 3rd and need innings. Duffey is for when starter is ineffective and ballgame is close (ahead or behind by 2 or less).  I feel there was an issue with starters not being stretched out and you may need more than one long reliever for a couple of weeks.

I feel FO gave Molitor most of what he wanted(this is probably not there direction).  TR lost the power struggle last year, I presume they do not want one this year.  By giving Molitor most of what he wants, he will not have the fallback of the FO undercutting how he wants to run the team.  And at sometime this year he is fired.

I've wondered the same thing. But then I also wonder if he isn't 'safe' because of who he knows.

[alarp33]

 

And I wonder if Molitor will even use them and not resort to ... Tonkin ... as the long man. I don't know if I agree with some opinions here, but many think Tonkin was misused last year. But since Tonkin is there, what's stopping Molitor from using him in the wrong role again?

Blech. I don't think I'm making sense this morning, even for me.

 

Right, Tonkin is another option that could be used for more than 1 inning.  Barring a totally unforseen scenario, like starters lasting 1 inning on back to back days... there will be at least 1 pitcher, possibly more, who are hardly used in the 1st 2 weeks

[spinowner]

 

Park is already signed to a contract, so it's not an economic issue.

It is an economic issue, but it's regarding Haley. They would have to give something up if they want him to go to Rochester. That's where Park's roster spot went.

[MauerState7]

Flavine is playing politics with the Polads and by virtue of extension, Molitor. I Feel like the new front office wants nothing to do with Hughes, Santiago, Danny Santana, or Grossman, but the competing voices still within the clubhouse are getting too much time on the debate floor. By letting those voices win temporarily they are going to be able to expose the flaws in that way of thinking and gain more power and influence with the owner. Is this they was a successful organization is operated, no way, but this is a way of moving the power of influence from the old guard to the new one so that when this team is in the conversation to win the division, and a contender for the pennant, their voices will have full control of the debate. It may be dumb to those of us that are on the analytics bandwagon, but it may be most effective to stop the bandwagon to help the holdovers onto the bandwagon than to ride off into the sunset with half the organization stranded on the side of the road. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Is Park being held back similar to Kris Bryant after a stellar spring...pure economics? you have done a great job of covering a vast organization in a very short time.  Keep up the good work Seth.  I enjoy reading and being informed.

 

Park is almost 30, no.

[savvyspy]

 

Santana literally has been one of the worst 5 players in baseball over the past couple years. He is a bad baseball player who absolutely should not be on a rebuilding team. He should be AAA depth at this stage of his career. His 2014 was fueled by a .405 BABIP that's not going to happen again, it's time to move on from D San. I wish him the best, and im sure he will bounce around the league for a bit, but there is zero reason why this club should have him on the roster.

Grossman had a high ObP, but it was driven largely by a .364 BABIP. I think he's a solid player, but definitely not someone you want as a DH.

Agree that Grossman was helped by the somewhat high BABIP but he was also 3rd on the team in walks so he knows how to control the strike zone. He is going to be in the top 3 or 4 in OBP just because he walks so much and most of this roster acts like the strike zone is 3 square miles. 

 

I would prefer Park be the DH but Grossman had a good year last year at the plate and an awful year in the field. Trying to minimize how much outfield he plays makes sense. Especially with the historically God awful pitching staff we have.

 

I'm not defending Santana just that I believe the rationale was he was out of options and they want to give him a final chance for some reason.

[nicksaviking]

 

And I wonder if Molitor will even use them and not resort to ... Tonkin ... as the long man. I don't know if I agree with some opinions here, but many think Tonkin was misused last year. But since Tonkin is there, what's stopping Molitor from using him in the wrong role again?

Blech. I don't think I'm making sense this morning, even for me.

 

Sadly, your concern makes too much sense.

 

If the same guy has nearly the exact same players from last year, why would we expect him to use them differently?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Sadly, your concern makes too much sense.

 

If the same guy has nearly the exact same players from last year, why would we expect him to use them differently?

 

I think he was recently quoted on "overshifts" being some new thing he wanted to learn about, in his third year as a manager.....

[beckmt]

 

Sadly, your concern makes too much sense.

 

If the same guy has nearly the exact same players from last year, why would we expect him to use them differently?

Because this FO has given him 2 long men to stop Molitor from using pitchers in roles for which they are not designed.  If Molitor screws up the usage, then more reason for the FO to fire him.

[Twinkie Texan]

 

Wow! To start the season, Duffey's the long man, Haley will be hidden, Mauer is going to play 1B every day, Berrios may be the #6 starter. Within a few weeks, they may need to find roster spaces for Park and Adrianza, and/or Vargas, if he's hitting well. Those will be interesting decisions.

I'm trying not to be pissed about the Park thing. I really believe he has 30 hr's in him THIS year. The Moneyball boys seem to be doing everything they can to get rid of him. I'm sure they want Grossman because of his OBP. I like him, but you need a DH who can drive in runs, not get on base. Fortunately, we can't seem to keep people healthy, so hopefully Park will be up real soon - and stick.

[whydidnt]

I think the roster points more to a total rebuild than the Twins are willing to publicly admit. Why keep Park on the roster if it only adds a few wins? If you are only going to win 65 games, those extra 2--3 aren't going to matter anyway. They want to figure out which of the young pitchers can stick. I think Dozier and E.Santana are both gone before the trade deadline. They are probably the only marketable veterans that will bring back any quality. The fact that they stood pat all off-season adds to my theory. The bullpen was ignored, like it has been for several years now. Only rebuilding teams ignore relief pitchers in 2017.

[Squirrel]

Right, Tonkin is another option that could be used for more than 1 inning.  Barring a totally unforseen scenario, like starters lasting 1 inning on back to back days... there will be at least 1 pitcher, possibly more, who are hardly used in the 1st 2 weeks

Right, but the thought is that Tonkin shouldn't be used for more than one and maybe he will be more effective. The thought is that Molitor misused Tonkin by using him for more innings and maybe if there are others for long relief, Tonkin can assume the proper role. But Molitor ...

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think the roster points more to a total rebuild than the Twins are willing to publicly admit. Why keep Park on the roster if it only adds a few wins? If you are only going to win 65 games, those extra 2--3 aren't going to matter anyway. They want to figure out which of the young pitchers can stick. I think Dozier and E.Santana are both gone before the trade deadline. They are probably the only marketable veterans that will bring back any quality. The fact that they stood pat all off-season adds to my theory. The bullpen was ignored, like it has been for several years now. Only rebuilding teams ignore relief pitchers in 2017.

 

Uh, which young pitchers are going to get a shot to stick or not? Other than Mejia and Haley (who they've all be admitted won't pitch much), which young pitchers are on the staff?

 

65 games? No way they only win 65 games (assuming reasonable health).

[whydidnt]

Flavine is playing politics with the Polads and by virtue of extension, Molitor. ...

 

You may be right. But why create the Chief of Baseball Ops if you weren't willing to let that guy be the final say on thing? Likewise why take the job, if you're Falvey and you don't get final say? This is his chance to shine, I wouldn't accept that sort of position if I didn't get to control my own destiny, and I doubt many others would either.

[alarp33]

 

Right, but the thought is that Tonkin shouldn't be used for more than one and maybe he will be more effective. The thought is that Molitor misused Tonkin by using him for more innings and maybe if there are others for long relief, Tonkin can assume the proper role. But Molitor ...

 

Yup I get that, but he's still likely behind Rogers, Breslow, Pressley and Belisle in the "just need a couple of outs" race... so the question is... how many damn relievers do you need?  

[tobi0040]

I don't really care if we have 13 pitchers. I would just wish we used the extra pitcher to break on Chargois, then Melotakis and Burdi. That is a much better use of that roster spot than another backup INF.

 

Using it in another 30 something reliever doesn't make sense to me though.

[whydidnt]

Uh, which young pitchers are going to get a shot to stick or not? Other than Mejia and Haley (who they've all be admitted won't pitch much), which young pitchers are on the staff?

 

65 games? No way they only win 65 games (assuming reasonable health).

 

I guess I count Duffy and Tonkin young as well, but frankly none of the other minor league arms did anything in ST to warrant a promotion either.

 

This exact team only won 59 games last year (swapping out catchers). Why are they a lock to win 6+ more games this year? I don't see Castro as being worth 6 games all on his own.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I guess I count Duffy and Tonkin young as well, but frankly none of the other minor league arms did anything in ST to warrant a promotion either. This exact team only won 59 games last year (swapping out catchers). Why are they a lock to win 6+ more games this year? I don't see Castro as being worth 6 games all on his own.

 

Well, that's not really how it works. They were very unlucky last year in terms of win/loss. That's the kind of logic AZ used last year, and now their GM and President are fired. 

 

You have to look at how they arrived at 59 games.....they probably should have 65 or so last year, given how they actually played. Also, if you aren't expecting better years from Buxton and Sano, and much better OF defense this year, you are probably losing a few wins in your prediction, imo.

 

72 is my number.