Article: Official Winter Meetings: Sunday Thread

[Seth Stohs]

The Winter Meetings are set to begin later today in Washington D.C. No time during the year, with the exception (maybe) of the July trade deadline, are there more rumors. Some are real. Some are baseless. But it is a fun time of the year for baseball fans.

 

Each day, we'll have an official thread for the day. Use this as an area to discuss any rumors you hear or read, or a place to mention transactions as they happen. Obviously if (or when) the Twins make any transactions, we'll have a full article on it, but this is a good place to discuss moves and rumors from around the league. Be sure to check back frequently.

 

Let's get to the rumors:Right away this morning, we had the following tweet from USA Today's Bob Nightengale:

 

 

Now as you know, the Dodgers are in major debt from MLB, but that may actually make Dozier make more sense. As Nightengale followed up:

 

 

So, let the rumors begin... Julio Urias? We can wish. Jose Deleon? Should be the minimum as a starting point.

 

Cody Bellinger is their top prospect, a left-handed hitting outfielder who can also play first base.

 

But the Twins need pitching, so names like Yadier Alvarez, Walker Buehler and Jordan Sheffield should be in discussions as well.

 

And maybe a shortstop too, like Gavin Lux.

 

Mike Berardino wrote yesterday that Thad LeVine is saying that the team would have to be "inspired" to deal Dozier. In my mind, that means at least two of the names mentioned above, and one of them being Urias or DeLeon.

 

Dozier is obviously the big talker, but the Twins have far more to do than just consider dealing the second baseman. Adding pitching will be the key.

 

Derek Falvey and Thad LeVine, along with a full contingent of Twins front office types, will make the trek to DC today.

 

In case you missed it, LaVelle Neal wrote a really nice piece on Falvey that you should read.

 

In Case You Missed It:

• Brian Duensing signed a one-year deal with the Cubs.
• Casey Fien signed a one-year, split contract with the Mariners. In the big leagues, he would make $1.1 million with more available in incentives. Since he has an option remaining, he would make a different amount in AAA.
• Is Andrew McCutchen going to the Nationals and teaming with Bryce Harper in the outfield?
• Will Mark Melancon go to the Giants or Nationals?
• Houston has been very active early. Will that continue?

Again, keep tabs of rumors here, and if there is a Twins transaction, we'll soon have an article ready to discuss that too.

 

If you hear a rumor, come back here and post it in the comments!

 

Click here to view the article

[Cap'n Piranha]

Dozier for De Leon and Alvarez, settle for Buehler if you have to, or even take back some salary to get all three. It's an immediate upgrade to the rotation, and Alvarez can team with Romero to be a potential second ace in 2-4 years.

[nytwinsfan]

My take: 

 

I think it has to be De Leon (Urias untouchable) + either Verdugo or Alvarez or Diaz-PLUS.  The Dodgers are not going to trade De Leon + Bellinger, and the Twins don't need a Willie Calhoun type player. Alvarez has really high upside, even though he is a ways away, so I would think the Twins would quickly do De Leon plus Alvarez. If the second part of the package is Diaz, I would think the Twins would want something more, such as Puig (maybe if the Twins would throw in Rosario) or one of the "lesser" pitchers like Buehler or Sheffield or maybe Gavin Lux if the Twins' scouts like him at SS. I admit I haven't heard any or much chatter about Verdugo, so it may be the Twins are not interested in him or Dodgers really don't want to trade him, but he seems like he would be a good piece (I'm obviously pessimistic about Rosario as a long-term corner outfielder).

[AlwaysinModeration]

"The LA #Dodgers are the most aggressive team in trade talks with the #Twins for 2B Brian Dozier, and have now piqued Minnesota's interest."

 

A rumor, yes...but doesn't that sound like they are willing to offer a player that Minnesota was requiring?

[nicksaviking]

So I'm also cool with adding other players (maybe Rosario) or taking on money (maybe Kazmir) to up the return.

[Seth Stohs]

Would people be willing to take on Yasiel Puig in any Brian Dozier deal?

 

Puig plus a top prospect, something like that.

 

Otherwise, I think DeLeon, Buehler and Lux might be a nice return...

[diehardtwinsfan]

De Leon, Alvarez, and Puig... I'd be happy with that.  2 major leaguers with high upside and an ace upside pitching prospect. 

 

I'm liking the fact that LA is being noted as being aggressive... now hopefully one or two others gets aggressive and thus forces them to up the price, by say swapping Urias for De Leon or throwing in another prospect and taking Santiago off our hands.

 

One can dream... 

[TheLeviathan]

Let's do this!

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

Urias has to be untouchable. DeLeon and another pitcher above for Dozier would be great for the club.

 

With the Twins unlikely to contend next year, I would not want the team to focus on finding a SS whether through the Dozier trade or another move or even free agency. Nick Gordon is two years away, and IMO has a breakout year coming in 2017. I think the combo of Escobar/Polanco can hold down the fort in the MLB just fine until Gordon gets the call..

[nytwinsfan]

 

Would people be willing to take on Yasiel Puig in any Brian Dozier deal?

 

Puig plus a top prospect, something like that.

 

Otherwise, I think DeLeon, Buehler and Lux might be a nice return...

 Would rather have Alvarez or Verdugo in addition to De Leon than Puig, but if it was De Leon, Puig and another lesser prospect, like Sheffield or Buehler or Lux, I might consider it.  Or if the Dodgers pay part of Puig's salary. I just don't think the Twins want to take a risk with Puig's contract right now when pitching is what's missing.  I doubt Puig is part of any deal.

 

 Plus, can you imagine the MN Press's reaction to Puig. That would not go well.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Urias has to be untouchable. DeLeon and another pitcher above for Dozier would be great for the club.

 

With the Twins unlikely to contend next year, I would not want the team to focus on finding a SS whether through the Dozier trade or another move or even free agency. Nick Gordon is two years away, and IMO has a breakout year coming in 2017. I think the combo of Escobar/Polanco can hold down the fort in the MLB just fine until Gordon gets the call..

Agreed, no need to focus on SS, but Lux as a third and final part of the deal wouldn't be terrible.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Urias has to be untouchable. DeLeon and another pitcher above for Dozier would be great for the club.

 

With the Twins unlikely to contend next year, I would not want the team to focus on finding a SS whether through the Dozier trade or another move or even free agency. Nick Gordon is two years away, and IMO has a breakout year coming in 2017. I think the combo of Escobar/Polanco can hold down the fort in the MLB just fine until Gordon gets the call..

Most likely yes. Where it gets interesting is if Dozier has lots of interest and the Dodgers really want him.  That's where they can throw a guy like that out and make it hard for Falvey/Levine to look elsewhere.

 

That said, the Twins should most definitely be asking for Urias right now. 

[olivia11]

Assuming Urias is untouchable, I'm hoping for: 

De Leon + Alvarez + Yusniel Diaz + Jacob Rhame 

for 

Dozier + Kohl Stewart 

[nytwinsfan]

 

Assuming Urias is untouchable, I'm hoping for: 

De Leon + Alvarez + Yusniel Diaz + Jacob Rhame 

for 

Dozier + Kohl Stewart 

That would be great. Doubt they do it though.

[nytwinsfan]

What are the chances we think a Dozier deal gets done this offseason?. Got to be more than 50% now, right?

[HitInAPinch]

Julio Urias or Jose De Leon?  Why not Julio Urias AND Jose De Leon?  Hell, take Yasiel Puig off their hands to make the deal  

[HitInAPinch]

 

 

What are the chances we think a Dozier deal gets done this offseason?. Got to be more than 50% now, right?

Sounds like they've been at it for a while now.  A deal has gotta be close, right?

[Einstein1]

It should be an interesting few days.  I'm assuming De Leon at minimum would have to be included to entice them to deal Dozier.  If they can get De Leon, Buehler (or Sheffield) and another quality prospect I think they'd do it.  

 

On another note. I don't understand why there would be any interest in Puig to the Twins, he's a clubhouse cancer and would be moving to a team that was completely lacking in clubhouse leadership, that seems like a bad combination to me.   

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Julio Urias or Jose De Leon?  Why not Julio Urias AND Jose De Leon?  Hell, take Yasiel Puig off their hands to make the deal  

 

If that deal was on the table, I'm pretty sure Falvey would have accepted it already...  I sure would have

[Monkeypaws]

That hair belongs in Hollywood....

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

 

That would be great. Doubt they do it though.

 

Assuming Urias is untouchable, I'm hoping for: 

De Leon + Alvarez + Yusniel Diaz + Jacob Rhame 

for 

Dozier + Kohl Stewart 

 

I like the idea of including Stewart in a trade. The question, though, is how much upside do other teams see in him. Given his average showing so far in the minors, my guess is the Twins are probably higher on him then other teams relying mostly on stats.

[olivia11]

 

I like the idea of including Stewart in a trade. The question, though, is how much upside do other teams see in him. Given his average showing so far in the minors, my guess is the Twins are probably higher on him then other teams relying mostly on stats.

 

Good point.  The basic thought behind my idea is that in addition to getting 2 pitchers (one who can help now, and one who can help later and who has perhaps a higher ceiling than the first), we should try and get a position player to start to rebuild our position player prospect depth.  I'm wondering if De Leon, Alvarez + Diaz could be had for Dozier plus a prospect other than Gordon, Jay, Gonsalves, Romero, Kiriloff. 

[John Bonnes]

Various thoughts:

 

1. No way they target Puig. None.

2. I wonder if DeLeon cannot be included (and obviously not Urias), if a deal can get done. What about something w Alex Wood, Alvarez and, say, Sheffield or Buhler?

3. How about including C Austin Barnes in a deal. He's 26, but looks like an upgrade on Murphy - good D & framing catcher only w loads of plate discipline.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Various thoughts:

1. No way they target Puig. None.
2. I wonder if DeLeon cannot be included (and obviously not Urias), if a deal can get done. What about something w Alex Wood, Alvarez and, say, Sheffield or Buhler?
3. How about including C Austin Barnes in a deal. He's 26, but looks like an upgrade on Murphy - good D & framing catcher only w loads of plate discipline.

1. Agreed they won't seek him out, but possible he becomes a third (or maybe second) piece if Dodgers really want to get rid of him and the first piece is really good (say Bellinger or (even less likely) Urias). Still, I agree this is unlikely.

2. I think if Falvey/Levine really really believe in Alvarez's upside (as some prospect followers do - e.g., Keith Law or Fangraphs), then this might be possible, with Wood taking the place of De Leon as the "now" pitching piece. Otherwise I think you are right that it requires De Leon.

3. Yup, sure, as a third piece. But Garver's stock has been rising of late and Barnes' falling. Not sure if Barnes is that much of an upgrade.

.

[bluechipper]

 

My take: 

 

I think it has to be De Leon (Urias untouchable) + either Verdugo or Alvarez or Diaz-PLUS.  The Dodgers are not going to trade De Leon + Bellinger, and the Twins don't need a Willie Calhoun type player. Alvarez has really high upside, even though he is a ways away, so I would think the Twins would quickly do De Leon plus Alvarez. If the second part of the package is Diaz, I would think the Twins would want something more, such as Puig (maybe if the Twins would throw in Rosario) or one of the "lesser" pitchers like Buehler or Sheffield or maybe Gavin Lux if the Twins' scouts like him at SS. I admit I haven't heard any or much chatter about Verdugo, so it may be the Twins are not interested in him or Dodgers really don't want to trade him, but he seems like he would be a good piece (I'm obviously pessimistic about Rosario as a long-term corner outfielder).

If you're pessimistic about Rosario, then Calhoun seems like a good prospect to look at. He's probably going to have to move to LF from 2B. He hit 27 HRs in AA as a 21 year old and only had an 11.6% K rate. He's an intriguing prospect as the second piece in the deal.

[nytwinsfan]

 

If you're pessimistic about Rosario, then Calhoun seems like a good prospect to look at. He's probably going to have to move to LF from 2B. He hit 27 HRs in AA as a 21 year old and only had an 11.6% K rate. He's an intriguing prospect as the second piece in the deal.

His prospecting grades put him at below average speed, not a good fielder (although maybe that is just 2B), and a fringy arm. He also sounds like he hasn't played OF in a while. Why in God's name would we want someone like that playing LF? I thought we were finally done with poor outfield defense. I'd rather get Verdugo or Diaz, who can, you know, actually play OF. 

[ashbury]

Minus Bellinger/Urias/DeLeon I don't see why Twins management's interest would be "piqued", so I am assuming one of these has been dangled. I'm going to be optimistic. Dozier plus KStewart for Urias would be cool, plus or minus a couple of lesser prospects on either side to blur things up a little. A deal for De Leon would need to include someone highly regarded like Alvarez plus another good prospect, as has been stated elsewhere, and again a KStewart level prospect could be added in order to make it work if need be. For a couple of reasons I'm not too enthused about Alex Wood as any kind of centerpiece. And while I personally could see "helping" the Dodgers by trading for Puig if they are really trying to shed payroll, I doubt the Twins see a fit.

[mudcat14]

 

I like the idea of including Stewart in a trade. The question, though, is how much upside do other teams see in him. Given his average showing so far in the minors, my guess is the Twins are probably higher on him then other teams relying mostly on stats.

 

Personally, I hate the idea of including Stewart.  I think we're being unreasonable in  our expectations for him.  He is progressing just fine.  He was up to 143 innings pitched this summer, with almost 100 of them coming in AA during his age 21 season.  In 380 career innings, his ERA is under 3.00, he allows less than one hit/inning and has only given up 12 longballs.  Yes his strikeout totals are less than desired but according to reports, his 'stuff' is still there.  I don't think giving up any legitimate arms would be wise for this organizations future.  Regardless of who comes back.

 

The Twins are dealing from strength here.  The Dodgers need to wow us if they want him.  Otherwise he still slots nicely into our line-up at an affordable price.  I do however endorse moving him now.  I don't think his value will ever be higher. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by mudcat14

[bluechipper]

 

His prospecting grades put him at below average speed, not a good fielder (although maybe that is just 2B), and a fringy arm. He also sounds like he hasn't played OF in a while. Why in God's name would we want someone like that playing LF? I thought we were finally done with poor outfield defense. I'd rather get Verdugo or Diaz, who can, you know, actually play OF. 

If he's that good of a hitter, you find a spot for him. There's probably a reason why MLB.com has him ranked right in the same area as Yusniel Diaz.

 

Of course I'd rather have Verdugo than Calhoun, but a package of Verdugo and Deleon might be too much to ask for. 

[Monkeypaws]

 

Personally, I hate the idea of including Stewart.  I think we're being unreasonable in  our expectations for him.  He is progressing just fine.  He was up to 143 innings pitched this summer, with almost 100 of them coming in AA during his age 21 season.  In 380 career innings, his ERA is under 3.00, he allows less than one hit/inning and has only given up 12 longballs.  Yes his strikeout totals are less than desired but according to reports, his 'stuff' is still there.  I don't think giving up any legitimate arms would be wise for this organizations future.  Regardless of who comes back.

 

The Twins are dealing from strength here.  The Dodgers need to wow us if they want him.  Otherwise he still slots nicely into our line-up at an affordable price.  I do however endorse moving him no.  I don't think his value will ever be higher. 

If Stewart became a serviceable, somewhat above average MLB pitcher, that would be fine with me: a more consistent Gibson.  We need competency before excellence. Agree with your points about him.