Puig and Deleon for dozier? How is that for the framework of a deal

 

Wait. We don't have Duensing anymore. Guess we can't trade Dozier.

Eh. Trade him anyway, who's gonna know? 

 

Lie, cheat, steal if you have too !

 

Nah, those new guy's seem too squeaky clean.  They'll learn.  I can teach that!

http://www.stepbystep.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/How_to_Deal_With_a_Mean_Teacher_1.jpg

Teachin' to lie? That's a paddlin'. Teachin' to cheat and steal? Oh, you best believe that's a paddlin.'

Looks like Dozier would be preferred  to Kinsler due to: age, cost, and the lack of a no trade clause.   Why not consider "bundling" ?  Dodgers could use a established starter to compete with the Giants and have an opening at 3B, with their starter now a free agent.  What about: Dozier, Ervin Santana, Plouffe, and some of - Turner, Pressley, JR Murphy, Danny Santana for a package of: C Austin Barnes, C Will Smith, P Brock Stewart, P Julio Urias and OF Yasiel Puig.  If a further incentive is needed for the Dodgers, then the Twins could take on one of the 3 contracts the Dodgers are on the hook for on players no longer on their 40 man roster.

 

Looks like Dozier would be preferred  to Kinsler due to: age, cost, and the lack of a no trade clause.   Why not consider "bundling" ?  Dodgers could use a established starter to compete with the Giants and have an opening at 3B, with their starter now a free agent.  What about: Dozier, Ervin Santana, Plouffe, and some of - Turner, Pressley, JR Murphy, Danny Santana for a package of: C Austin Barnes, C Will Smith, P Brock Stewart, P Julio Urias and OF Yasiel Puig.  If a further incentive is needed for the Dodgers, then the Twins could take on one of the 3 contracts the Dodgers are on the hook for on players no longer on their 40 man roster.

I'm all for bundling.... If there's one thing we've learned from cable companies over the years, bundling = a better deal! I just don't see how our bundle nets that kind of return from the Dodgers. 

I do think packaging Santana, Dozier, and a AA arm to get Urias and a few other prospects is better than getting De Leon.....

 

On Fangraphs, their prospect guy puts De Leon at a 3/4......so, if you are getting him, you need to get two other upside guys also, imo, just for Dozier.

I have always felt that Kinsler has been underrated/overlooked in his career.  But now he's old and coming off an unsustainable year.  If the Dodgers are seriously looking at trading for him now, they're not thinking forward.  They should have picked him up earlier if they were interested.

 

Dozier is also coming off of an unsustainable year, but he is younger, cheaper, and more durable.  He certainly has more good years ahead of him than Kinsler does.  If Dozier doesn't work out, the Dodgers could flip him for a prospect later on.  Kinsler, not so much.

 

Seems like a no brainer.  If the Dodgers have a laser focus on Kinsler right now with a guy like Dozier on the table, they're making a mistake.  

 

Though I must say it would be nice to get Kinsler out of the division.

Edited November 17, 20169 yr by Doomtints

 

I'd aim higher or ask for a third piece, but it's pretty realistic.

any chance that third piece could be Will Smith he is the dodgers number 11 prospect. 

The bit about Dozier being second choice to Kinsler was only conjecture by Steve Adams at MLBTR. He's not reporting, he's only gathering the info and trying to provide a narrative. For all he or anyone else knows the Dodgers may be trying to play the Tigers and Twins against each other.

 

And Dozier may be second choice for the Dodgers simply because they know he is more valuable and already assume they would have to give up less to get Kinsler. They may prefer the lesser talent at the lower asking price, though encouragingly it looks like Kinsler is making it difficult for the Tigers to move him.

 

I have always felt that Kinsler has been underrated/overlooked in his career.  But now he's old and coming off an unsustainable year.  If the Dodgers are seriously looking at trading for him now, they're not thinking forward.  They should have picked him up earlier if they were interested.

 

Dozier is also coming off of an unsustainable year, but he is younger, cheaper, and more durable.  He certainly has more good years ahead of him than Kinsler does.  If Dozier doesn't work out, the Dodgers could flip him for a prospect later on.  Kinsler, not so much.

 

Seems like a no brainer.  If the Dodgers have a laser focus on Kinsler right now with a guy like Dozier on the table, they're making a mistake.  

 

Though I must say it would be nice to get Kinsler out of the division.

 

"More good years ahead of him" than Kinsler is pretty meaningless in this conversation in my opinion.  They're both under contract for 2 years.  It doesn't matter to the Dodgers if 5 years down the road Dozier will still be around and Kinsler may be retiring.  

 

Also, if Dozier "doesn't work out" I'm not sure why he'd be flippable... 1 year left coming off what I assume is a bad year since he didnt work out.  

 

Kinsler has a longer track record of success, I'm not saying I would necessarily take him over Dozier, but I certainly could see why teams would. 

 

It'll be a tough pill to swallow at first.... But in order to acquire Kershaw, I'll throw in Centeno, D Santana, and ABW to make it happen

I would hold back on ABW.  Too Much!  

 

I'm all for bundling.... If there's one thing we've learned from cable companies over the years, bundling = a better deal! I just don't see how our bundle nets that kind of return from the Dodgers. 

Throw in a DirecTV subscription......

 

"More good years ahead of him" than Kinsler is pretty meaningless in this conversation in my opinion.  They're both under contract for 2 years.  It doesn't matter to the Dodgers if 5 years down the road Dozier will still be around and Kinsler may be retiring.  

 

Also, if Dozier "doesn't work out" I'm not sure why he'd be flippable... 1 year left coming off what I assume is a bad year since he didnt work out.  

 

Kinsler has a longer track record of success, I'm not saying I would necessarily take him over Dozier, but I certainly could see why teams would. 

 

Not being out of gas by the end of the contract is certainly relevant.  Being able to trade or re-sign him at the end of the contract is certainly relevant.  

 

And no one mentioned the type of prospect Dozier would be flippable for.  The point is the Dodgers could get SOMETHING for Dozier, which as you know is infinitely better than getting nothing for Kinsler.

A Kinsler trade is precisely the type of trade Twins fans like to get blue in the face over as being bad for the team.  Maybe you're not one of "those guys" and if not, kudos to you.  But there are a dozen reasons Dozier would be a smarter move for any team.  Trading for Kinsler would be a desperation move which is entirely unnecessary because there is (probably) a better comp available on the market.  

 

Edited November 17, 20169 yr by Doomtints

To be honest with you, I wouldn't mind if they targeted an extra outfielder in the deal. 

 

Trayce Thompson plus some kind of pitching or other prospect help would get me listening, I think.

 

Not being out of gas by the end of the contract is certainly relevant.  Being able to trade or re-sign him at the end of the contract is certainly relevant.  

 

And no one mentioned the type of prospect Dozier would be flippable for.  The point is the Dodgers could get SOMETHING for Dozier, which as you know is infinitely better than getting nothing for Kinsler.

A Kinsler trade is precisely the type of trade Twins fans like to get blue in the face over as being bad for the team.  Maybe you're not one of "those guys" and if not, kudos to you.  But there are a dozen reasons Dozier would be a smarter move for any team.  Trading for Kinsler would be a desperation move which is entirely unnecessary because there is (probably) a better comp available on the market.  

 

2 years.  What happens to Kinsler or Dozier from November 2018 - on means nothing to the Dodgers if they were to trade for either. An extension is not relevant to the discussion (unless of course Kinsler demands one to waive his no trade, in which case I would definitely lean Dozier and pass on Kinsler)

 

I'm not following the 2nd part here that if both bomb out next year Dozier is tradeable and Kinsler is not.  Why would one be tradeable and the other not if they were equal busts?

 

I'm not following the 3rd paragraph at all.  Why would trading for Kinsler be a desperation move for the Dodgers? They are trying to win a World Series and he's one of the ~3 best 2nd baseman in baseball

 

To be honest with you, I wouldn't mind if they targeted an extra outfielder in the deal. 

 

Trayce Thompson plus some kind of pitching or other prospect help would get me listening, I think.

 

Who would you prefer, Thompson or Andrew Toles?

 

It'll be a tough pill to swallow at first.... But in order to acquire Kershaw, I'll throw in Centeno, D Santana, and ABW to make it happen

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  That sounded workable until the crazy talk about giving away a history-making hitter like Santana.

 

Who would you prefer, Thompson or Andrew Toles?

Yes.

 

Throw in a DirecTV subscription......

With free HBO for 6 months only.... We have to draw the line somewhere. We're not made of money here at 1 Twins Way! 

 

http://fansided.com/2016/09/19/5-potential-trade-destinations-brian-dozier/2/

 

This pretty much explained why Kintzler is their top choice.  They've shied away from the big trades.  They may have to though if Kintzler refuses to waive the no-trade.

 

Looks like Dozier would be preferred  to Kinsler due to: age, cost, and the lack of a no trade clause.   Why not consider "bundling" ?  Dodgers could use a established starter to compete with the Giants and have an opening at 3B, with their starter now a free agent.  What about: Dozier, Ervin Santana, Plouffe, and some of - Turner, Pressley, JR Murphy, Danny Santana for a package of: C Austin Barnes, C Will Smith, P Brock Stewart, P Julio Urias and OF Yasiel Puig.  If a further incentive is needed for the Dodgers, then the Twins could take on one of the 3 contracts the Dodgers are on the hook for on players no longer on their 40 man roster.

 

I'm not sure that I'd bundle Esan and Dozier together unless the return was enormous (and I'd add that included an opening day starting C to go with the ace P prospect).  Not sure many teams have that kind of capital. 

 

That said, if the Dodgers were willing to take Plouffe on a 1 year deal to fill in at 3rd, by all means, I'd throw him in. Plouffe is a non-tender candidate though, so he's not really going to raise the return all that much.

Bellinger is being talked about for 34 year old Ian KINSLER. Dodgers would be absolutely stupid to do that.

What about...

 

Dozier, Plouffe, Kohl Stewart  FOR 

 

RHP Jose De Leon, C Austin Barnes, RHP Jordan Sheffield, OF Yusniel Diaz   ?

 

This trade is all about the now and the future.  De Leon and Barnes help the Twins now.  Sheffield is at least 2 years away and adds depth to the Twins group of pitching prospects.  Diaz played last year at high A and similarly adds depth to the group of hitting prospects which has taken a huge hit after graduating the likes of Sano, Buxton, Kepler, Polanco, etc.   Dodgers get Dozier to help now and Stewart to hopefully develop into the frontline starter he was originally projected to be.  Plouffe is essentially a throw-in here since I think it's pretty likely he'd otherwise be non-tendered and the 9M doesn't mean much for the Dodgers.  

 

Bellinger is being talked about for 34 year old Ian KINSLER. Dodgers would be absolutely stupid to do that.

I wonder if the pendulum on vets vs. prospects has swung back toward vets a bit.  There have been a few trades this last year that seemed like one team gave up lots of prospects.  But if the Twins could get someone like Bellinger for Dozier, I'd be thrilled.

Let's all agree to stop adding Plouffe to deals like it is going to add to the return.  Deal?  

 

If the Dodgers want Plouffe, they will wait until the Twins non-tender him and sign him to a 1 year $3 million deal. 

 

Kinsler has a longer track record of success, I'm not saying I would necessarily take him over Dozier, but I certainly could see why teams would. 

Kinsler has a longer track record of success because he's five (!) years older than Dozier.

 

Over the past three seasons...

 

Dozier: 13.9 fWAR

Kinsler: 15.3 fWAR

 

Again, Dozier is five years younger. If trading similar talent for either player, you choose Dozier 11 times out of 10.

 

And that's not a knock on Kinsler, he has been a fantastic player, it's just an acknowledgement that 35 year old middle infielders are not as good a bet as 30 year old middle infielders.

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/76381/a-trade-for-every-team

 

I feel like the Chris Sale trade is light. I also feel like I would jump on the Dozier trade. Lucas Giolito! What do you guys think?

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/76381/a-trade-for-every-team

 

I feel like the Chris Sale trade is light. I also feel like I would jump on the Dozier trade. Lucas Giolito! What do you guys think?

I'd be happy with Giolito.  Giolito has some concerns - injuries and he didn't dominate AA quite as much as people thought - but his upside is still tremendous.  It's also somewhat similar to the Span/Meyer trade although both Dozier and Giolito are better than their compatriots.  

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/76381/a-trade-for-every-team

 

I feel like the Chris Sale trade is light. I also feel like I would jump on the Dozier trade. Lucas Giolito! What do you guys think?

 

I'm a bit worried about Giolito but that is a very nice high reward play for the Twins that they should absolutely jump on if they had the chance.

 

Kinsler has a longer track record of success because he's five (!) years older than Dozier.

 

Over the past three seasons...

 

Dozier: 13.9 fWAR

Kinsler: 15.3 fWAR

 

Again, Dozier is five years younger. If trading similar talent for either player, you choose Dozier 11 times out of 10.

 

And that's not a knock on Kinsler, he has been a fantastic player, it's just an acknowledgement that 35 year old middle infielders are not as good a bet as 30 year old middle infielders.

 

Again, we are talking about 2 years.  Not for the rest of their careers.  You can dismiss Kinsler all you want based on his age, but the fact of the matter is his longer track record of success means something.  I would guess most in the industry think very highly of Dozier.  I would also guess no one in the industry expect him to repeat his 42 home runs.  

 

Over the past 2 seasons... 

 

Kinsler 12.1 WAR (bWAR)

Dozier 8.9  WAR (bWAR)

 

3.2 WAR over 2 seasons is a margain, however significant you want to believe that is.  

 

Also, I think its pretty clear Kinsler is the better defensive 2B

Edited November 18, 20169 yr by alarp33