I agree out with old and in with new. I don't want to trade Dozier but agree it's in the team's best interest to do so, with all the standard caveats of value, etc.

 

But even with SP being the team's biggest need, you still need a full roster, and it's still a team game of SP, RP, defense and hitting. Yes I know that's stating the obvious, but it bears saying. And I will further repeat things I've stated before. Even on a young and rebuilding team, there is room for a smart veteran or 2-3 to be added.

 

*Is the team better with Grossman as a 4th OF, or letting Granite sit on the bench most days as a role player? Or is the team better off with a quality 4th OF FA that might even be flipped and guys like Granite can play every day at AAA to at least start the year?

 

*Is the team better holding open auditions for the closer spot right out of the gate? Or are they better with a short term vet, also a flip candidate, to shore up the pen, hold leads/wins/saves and work the young arms in to that role?

 

*Do you turn SS over to Escobar, who I like and is still not old and a good bounce back candidate? Or, are you better off acquiring a more proven glove man, even in the short term, to further solidify the infield defense and use Escobar often as a quality role guy?

 

My whole point is this team HAS gotten younger almost everywhere, is still getting younger with some additional prospects getting close. But there is still room to add a veteran or two to make them a better overall TEAM without either rushing youngsters or blocking them.

The whole "don't let Granite sit around and do nothing thing"....when would you ever call him up, then? Until you trade Rosario....Granite is a 4th OF for this team, right (or maybe 3rd with Rosario 4th). But, I'd rather have him here and contributing, than waiting for that perfect moment and getting him more reps. 

 

The whole "don't let Granite sit around and do nothing thing"....when would you ever call him up, then? Until you trade Rosario....Granite is a 4th OF for this team, right (or maybe 3rd with Rosario 4th). But, I'd rather have him here and contributing, than waiting for that perfect moment and getting him more reps. 

Agreed. There will be plenty of reps for Granite or whoever is the 4th OF. It felt like every day that one of D Santana, Grossman, or Schafer was in the lineup... 

 

The whole "don't let Granite sit around and do nothing thing"....when would you ever call him up, then? Until you trade Rosario....Granite is a 4th OF for this team, right (or maybe 3rd with Rosario 4th). But, I'd rather have him here and contributing, than waiting for that perfect moment and getting him more reps. 

126 games at AA with a .729 OPS and 347 OBP AA hardly screams that the guy should be here right now.  Plus, he is not a good replacement for Grossman given he is a LHH.  Grossman may suck defensively but that bat should be in the linepup vs LHP.  He is really a better replacement for Rosario.  IMO Rosario has a higher ceiling than Granite.  If Rosario can develop his approach, he could be a very good MLB player.  Personally, I am not too optimistic but why would you take ABs away from Rosario next year for a guy who is not ready to play at the ML level?   At a minimum, give Rosario / Grossman the 1st half of the season with Granite, Palka and Walker at AAA. 

 

Hope that you end up with several OFers that can play at the ML level and trade from that position of strength.

 

126 games at AA with a .729 OPS and 347 OBP AA hardly screams that the guy should be here right now.  Plus, he is not a good replacement for Grossman given he is a LHH.  Grossman may suck defensively but that bat should be in the linepup vs LHP.  He is really a better replacement for Rosario.  IMO Rosario has a higher ceiling than Granite.  If Rosario can develop his approach, he could be a very good MLB player.  Personally, I am not too optimistic but why would you take ABs away from Rosario next year for a guy who is not ready to play at the ML level?   At a minimum, give Rosario / Grossman the 1st half of the season with Granite, Palka and Walker at AAA. 

 

Hope that you end up with several OFers that can play at the ML level and trade from that position of strength.

 

That wasn't what I was arguing....not even close.

 

I was arguing that if your reason for not having him here is that he would sit and not play, that is probably the case the following year also. Heck, I even said that.....unless you trade Rosario, Granite is probably always a 4th OF. so, if your argument is don't call him up because he's a 4th OF, well, I don't think that argument can ever be overcome.

 

Not sure your point.

126 games at AA with a .729 OPS and 347 OBP AA hardly screams that the guy should be here right now. Plus, he is not a good replacement for Grossman given he is a LHH. Grossman may suck defensively but that bat should be in the linepup vs LHP. He is really a better replacement for Rosario. IMO Rosario has a higher ceiling than Granite. If Rosario can develop his approach, he could be a very good MLB player. Personally, I am not too optimistic but why would you take ABs away from Rosario next year for a guy who is not ready to play at the ML level? At a minimum, give Rosario / Grossman the 1st half of the season with Granite, Palka and Walker at AAA.

 

Hope that you end up with several OFers that can play at the ML level and trade from that position of strength.

Where should Grossman play when you get his bat into the lineup vs LHP? Don't we already have enough DH candidates? Grossman shouldn't play another inning in the OF, barring 2 or more OF injuries in the same game.

 

That wasn't what I was arguing....not even close.

 

I was arguing that if your reason for not having him here is that he would sit and not play, that is probably the case the following year also. Heck, I even said that.....unless you trade Rosario, Granite is probably always a 4th OF. so, if your argument is don't call him up because he's a 4th OF, well, I don't think that argument can ever be overcome.

 

Not sure your point.

The point was I thought the reason he is here had nothing to do with the point you were making..  He has  modest offensive numbers in 127 games at AA.  Why would you think he is a guy to jump right from AA.  It makes absolutely no sense and you were complaining about "if the reason" when it should be very clear that is not the reason.  

Where should Grossman play when you get his bat into the lineup vs LHP? Don't we already have enough DH candidates? Grossman shouldn't play another inning in the OF, barring 2 or more OF injuries in the same game.

It'll never happen, but I'd keep him as a first inning (on the road) bat at the top of the lineup. Take him out in the bottom half of the inning for a defensive replacement. Yeah you blow your bench early but so what? He had .100 points of OBP over Rosario and Rosario had about 100 points of UZR over Grossman.

At least, I think it would be fun to see happen.

 

In home games, when you're down 2+ and need baserunners late, there's another spot for him.

 

Then the ocassional day after night / spot start. That's 200 or so PAs without exposing his defense too badly.

 

The point was I thought the reason he is here had nothing to do with the point you were making..  He has  modest offensive numbers in 127 games at AA.  Why would you think he is a guy to jump right from AA.  It makes absolutely no sense and you were complaining about "if the reason" when it should be very clear that is not the reason.  

 

Well, I was responding to this, hence I was responding to the point I thought he was making that Granite shouldn't be up because he'd sit on the bench most of the time, which, assuming Rosario, Buxton, and Kepler are good, is true in 2 years or 3 years also....I don't know how to make that more clear, frankly.

 

"letting Granite sit on the bench most days as a role player? .... and guys like Granite can play every day at AAA to at least start the year?"

 

No place was I actually arguing he was ready.....I was arguing that it was not sufficient to say he shouldn't come up because he'd sit.

Edited October 18, 201610 yr by Mike Sixel

 

Well, I was responding to this, hence I was responding to the point I thought he was making that Granite shouldn't be up because he'd sit on the bench most of the time, which, assuming Rosario, Buxton, and Kepler are good, is true in 2 years or 3 years also....I don't know how to make that more clear, frankly.

 

"letting Granite sit on the bench most days as a role player? .... and guys like Granite can play every day at AAA to at least start the year?"

 

No place was I actually arguing he was ready.....I was arguing that it was not sufficient to say he shouldn't come up because he'd sit.

I see where you are coming from now.  A little context always helps.

It'll never happen, but I'd keep him as a first inning (on the road) bat at the top of the lineup. Take him out in the bottom half of the inning for a defensive replacement. Yeah you blow your bench early but so what? He had .100 points of OBP over Rosario and Rosario had about 100 points of UZR over Grossman.

At least, I think it would be fun to see happen.

 

In home games, when you're down 2+ and need baserunners late, there's another spot for him.

 

Then the ocassional day after night / spot start. That's 200 or so PAs without exposing his defense too badly.

You are burning a spot on your 25 man roster for that? No thanks. I look forward to the day when he is not needed.