Article: Updates On The Front Office Search

[Mike Sixel]

What I find somewhat perplexing is how the search firm did not know that Cherington, or others(?), did not want to interview. That really is their job to vet candidates and to find out those that are interested in the position, including their willingness to interview. I'm not sure how much value to give to these reports that don't have named sources

That would preclude you from trusting nearly every piece of confidential news. Pretty high standard...

[Vanimal46]

 

What I find somewhat perplexing is how the search firm did not know that Cherington, or others(?), did not want to interview. That really is their job to vet candidates and to find out those that are interested in the position, including their willingness to interview. I'm not sure how much value to give to these reports that don't have named sources

The search firm most likely knew and made it clear to the Twins that Cherington was interviewing for other teams... A couple of things could have happened:

- The Twins sat on him too long without any movement, resulting in Cherington moving on to the Blue Jays.
- The search firm working with Cherington saw the position and responsibilities he was interviewing for with the Blue Jays and realized this was a step up compared to the opportunity presented with the Twins, and withdrew him from the interview process. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

My brother went to four different high schools, one year apiece.  He didn't enjoy it one bit. it likely cost him a full baseball scholarship.

Yeah, moving in high school is rough. I moved after my freshman year, lost all my friends, had to start anew, and was derailed off an AP track (ie. college credits in high school) through laziness/inattentiveness from my CA high school counselor (who was a moron). I was 15 and had no idea the long-term effects that would have on college.

 

In short, moving your high school kids halfway across the country can and should have a big impact on parents' job choices.

 

(not that I resent any of that happening, but it did happen and should be acknowledged)

[Mike Sixel]

Yeah, moving in high school is rough. I moved after my freshman year, lost all my friends, had to start anew, and was derailed off an AP track (ie. college credits in high school) through laziness/inattentiveness from my CA high school counselor (who was a moron). I was 15 and had no idea the long-term effects that would have on college.

 

In short, moving your high school kids halfway across the country can and should have a big impact on parents' job choices.

 

(not that I resent any of that happening, but it did happen and should be acknowledged)

But that is not about coming to Minnesota....it would preclude any move...yet some here are convinced, apparently, that it is a Minnesota problem. Or, I am reading it wrong

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

But that is not about coming to Minnesota....it would preclude any move...yet some here are convinced, apparently, that it is a Minnesota problem. Or, I am reading it wrong

Sure, but sticking within an hour flight (and hell, even driving distance) of your kids for large chunks of the year could have played a role in the decision.

 

But really, it's all speculation.

 

I'm mildly concerned that "people" have reportedly declined interviews but I need a few more actual names before I consider it a real problem.

 

I really hope this is just a lot of noise surrounding two legitimate candidates who liked their current (or coming) deals and not an ownership meddling problem.

[Mike Sixel]

Having recently moved, as bad as delta can be, Minneapolis might be one of the best places to fly from....but yes, being close to family is important and is likely a factor for any move.

[big dog]

Well, just to quiet a little of the speculation, I will go on record and let people know that I, big dog, have withdrawn my name from consideration of the Twins' job.  They agreed to respect my privacy and not release any information, but I think I owe it to people to let them know.  It looks like a great job, but frankly, they don't allow dogs to have access to the clubhouse and I just can't support that kind of attitude.  So I'm out.  I do wish them well with their search however.

Edited September 15, 2016 by big dog

[gocgo]

 

Well, just to quiet a little of the speculation, I will go on record and let people know that I, big dog, have withdrawn my name from consideration of the Twins' job.  They agreed to respect my privacy and not release any information, but I think I owe it to people to let them know.  It looks like a great job, but frankly, they don't allow dogs to have access to the clubhouse and I just can't support that kind of attitude.  So I'm out.  I do wish them well with their search however.

Word on the street is that you were out when you lifted your leg during the interview.

[jimmer]

 

Word on the street is that you were out when you lifted your leg during the interview.

I heard it was the constant humping of St Peter's leg that did it :-)

[big dog]

 

Word on the street is that you were out when you lifted your leg during the interview.

It's fair to say that both sides were somewhat surprised by different aspects of the interview process.  I thought the Twins would be a little more broad-minded about bathroom usage, for example.

[beckmt]

 

Sure, but sticking within an hour flight (and hell, even driving distance) of your kids for large chunks of the year could have played a role in the decision.

 

But really, it's all speculation.

 

I'm mildly concerned that "people" have reportedly declined interviews but I need a few more actual names before I consider it a real problem.

 

I really hope this is just a lot of noise surrounding two legitimate candidates who liked their current (or coming) deals and not an ownership meddling problem.

That would depend on the age of the children.  Would think it would be harder on the 8-12 range as all they know are family and friends.  Teenagers would only be if they are in sports and good. 

I went through some of it as a youngster and only found a teacher in my senior year who started new activities and helped.

[Mr. Brooks]

I mean, unless it's an emergency, is a 1 hour flight really that different than a 2 hour flight?

 

And do those saying that it might be because he already was in talks for the Toronto job realize that this is not a lateral move?

He is 3rd in line in Toronto. Nobody in the world is going to fault him for pulling out of that job because he got offered a top spot somewhere.

 

Mackey and Judd just discussed this a few minutes ago.

Mackey heard that the reason several candidates have declined is because our organizational infrastructure is several years behind that of many clubs.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

That would depend on the age of the children.  Would think it would be harder on the 8-12 range as all they know are family and friends.  Teenagers would only be if they are in sports and good. 

I went through some of it as a youngster and only found a teacher in my senior year who started new activities and helped.

Obviously every situation is different, but it seems a lot of K-5/6 schools merge around grade 7 anyway, and again 6/7-8 middle schools merge at grade 9.  And as a non-athlete, I found that a lot of my preferred extracurriculars didn't start in earnest until grade 9 too.  So most moves before grade 9 could be weathered just fine.

 

Moving between grades 9-12 would be tough.

[alarp33]

 

Mackey and Judd just discussed this a few minutes ago.
Mackey heard that the reason several candidates have declined is because our organizational infrastructure is several years behind that of many clubs.

 

It might take more work, but couldn't that be seen as a positive (assuming Pohlad gives complete control and a budget thats plenty big)?  A total blank slate to work with

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It might take more work, but couldn't that be seen as a positive (assuming Pohlad gives complete control and a budget thats plenty big)?  A total blank slate to work with

Any situation is a "total blank slate" if you are willing to completely clear house and you are allowed to do so.

 

It's also a lot of work to completely clear house, and not particularly desirable work.  Anthropolous and Cherington never had to do that before either -- they spent a number of years in the Toronto and Boston front offices, respectively, before ascending to those GM spots.

[Vanimal46]

 

It might take more work, but couldn't that be seen as a positive (assuming Pohlad gives complete control and a budget thats plenty big)?  A total blank slate to work with

Someone will see that as a positive. There's a job out there for everyone as they say.... AA hasn't had the experience building an entire front office/scouting/evaluation department before. Maybe the tasks are too daunting for a person like him. 

[kenbuddha]

 

I heard it was the constant humping of St Peter's leg that did it :-)

Intermittent would have been okay, but constant... yeah, that's a deal breaker.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

Ummmmm, I really do not think moving or living situation/standards have ANYTHING to do with any candidates who have or may pull their names out of the hat. My fear is that anyone pulling their names out have or would do so because they did not see the position to be a good one, or better than other options they have.

 

That could be a handful to several reasons such as, the lack of expected control with the position compared to others with same or similar titles, not liking or thinking highly of the FO or on field staff in various levels and areas (player development, analytics, coaches, owners, etc.), might not like future chances due to payroll (TV deals and owners) compared to competitors future payrolls, might not think very highly of our young talent in the majors or minors (on the whole have been quite overrated by national and especially local media in recent years), and many other small to large considerations....could be some or several of these combined that bring an overall lack of respect or shine to this position....and system as a whole.

 

We should probably keep this in mind wherever we think we are close or that Buxton, Keppler, Gonsalves, Gordon, etc. are guys that will bring us to the upper tier of the league. It is also silly in my mind to believe that these guys simply felt they HAD to honor any such workings or loyalties to other clubs. If there is a better opportunity, it is generally completely understood that the person has every right and should take it....unless, it is not a vertical climb. This scares me to what others are thinking of our system, future, and or lack of faith in what this change really means for real change for this team top to bottom. Just my thoughts and could be wrong, but just thinking what really is the situation.....it has nothing to do with living in Minnesota, so lets stop pretending that has anything to do with at all.

[The Wise One]

The Twins job has several limitations. The team with not a great potential for a cable deal will always be a lower budget team.  Target Field already has more expensive seats than most, again I would not see revenue growth there.  If the organization is seen as needing an overhaul that means you need to bring in more people. If you do not have a few people to bring in it means you have a few more unknowns to deal with. The potential for short term failure  failure is greater than the potential for great success, what does that do for your career?   Not just anyone is going to want the job.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Derek Falvey, assistant GM with Cleveland, is a "finalist" (suggesting a decision soon?):

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/09/twins-considering-indians-agm-derek-falvey-for-front-office-job-finalist.html

[diehardtwinsfan]

My 2 cents, I'll forgive the Cherrington thing.  Simply put, when you're job seeking, you'll be looking at both options, and while the search firm may or may not have known that, Cherrington is going to play both sides of that.  He's going to want to see the better opportunity, which I'm sure is a combination of salary, family, likeliness to succeed, etc. 

 

AA is a bit different here, in that he only cites family. Perhaps that is true.  He wouldn't be the first to turn down a good opportunity for things like that. It also may be a convenient excuse.  The problem is that we see a lot of smoke with the owner (Nolasco signing, Molitor comments, etc.) that indicates that Pohlad has more control than perhaps he should. That does concern me.

 

As for the Twins FO being a bit behind, well yeah. That's probably at least part of the reason why we are looking at 100 losses this season. I would think that this wouldn't a deterrent to a perspective applicant. If anything, it's an opportunity to make your mark so to speak. That said, there is a real issue with a competing job (say Toronto) looking more appealing in that sense (easier to succeed), but the only way it's a deal breaker is if the owner is coming out and saying that they cannot modernize it, because he doesn't want to double his scouting staff or something like that. That would be a big problem.

 

Not sure I buy the Minnesota winters thing.  Yeah, they suck. Yeah, they are worse than Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, etc.  But I don't see the deterrent there, unless Pohlad keeps the heat at 62 in the winter.  The team HQ is in Fort Myers.  I'm guessing they spend a lot of time there in the winter anyways.

[markos]

Piggy-backing on diehardtwinsfan, I am definitely adjusting my priors based on the past few weeks of rumors. At the start of this process, I felt very strongly that:

 

1) There are only 30 jobs available, so almost by definition this position would be desirable. 

2) I didn't expect that many candidates would turn the position down, and I didn't think anyone who wasn't currently a GM or POBO would decline to be interviewed.

3) I thought that the vote of confidence for Molitor in 2017 was essentially meaningless and at worse an extremely minor point. 

 

I am starting to seriously doubt all three.

 

I am shocked - SHOCKED! - that both Cherrington and AA not just turned down the position but declined to even be interviewed. Individually they are kind of understandable - Cherrington more so - but I'm still very surprised. 

 

There has been a lot of rumors from various media sources that have really muddled the idea of what the position will actually be. Some have indicated that the new POBO would report to Dave St. Peter. Maybe the reason so many qualified candidates are declining the position early in the process is because the role being presented is very different than what the title would indicate. Similarly, the obsession with Molitor has made me wonder if the expectation is that the manager would have more voice in the player acquisition/development process than most organizations currently employ (and this would play into my own suspicions that Gardy had significant sway in decisions when Bill Smith was GM). 

 

In all, this is starting to feel a bit like the Angels GM position last year, where it was very clear to everyone that the new GM would be limited by a meddlesome owner and a powerful manager. 

[DJL44]

Maybe they found out what the Pohlad's are willing to pay as a salary....

 

Seriously though, there are many reasons to not take a job. The Twins are not just hiring one guy, they want two - a President of Baseball Ops and a General Manager. Which job did each guy turn down?

[Willihammer]

I'm not too discouraged by a couple big names turning down interviews. I kinda prefer they pull an up and coming no-name out of the ranks somewhere anyways. Maybe someone like this:

http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/59830/unknown-hero-helps-make-giants-world-series-champions/

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

My 2 cents, I'll forgive the Cherrington thing.  Simply put, when you're job seeking, you'll be looking at both options, and while the search firm may or may not have known that, Cherrington is going to play both sides of that.  He's going to want to see the better opportunity, which I'm sure is a combination of salary, family, likeliness to succeed, etc. 

 

AA is a bit different here, in that he only cites family. Perhaps that is true.  He wouldn't be the first to turn down a good opportunity for things like that. It also may be a convenient excuse.  The problem is that we see a lot of smoke with the owner (Nolasco signing, Molitor comments, etc.) that indicates that Pohlad has more control than perhaps he should. That does concern me.

 

As for the Twins FO being a bit behind, well yeah. That's probably at least part of the reason why we are looking at 100 losses this season. I would think that this wouldn't a deterrent to a perspective applicant. If anything, it's an opportunity to make your mark so to speak. That said, there is a real issue with a competing job (say Toronto) looking more appealing in that sense (easier to succeed), but the only way it's a deal breaker is if the owner is coming out and saying that they cannot modernize it, because he doesn't want to double his scouting staff or something like that. That would be a big problem.

 

Not sure I buy the Minnesota winters thing.  Yeah, they suck. Yeah, they are worse than Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, etc.  But I don't see the deterrent there, unless Pohlad keeps the heat at 62 in the winter.  The team HQ is in Fort Myers.  I'm guessing they spend a lot of time there in the winter anyways.

Yep, I agree with everything in this post. We can speculate all day and choose whichever narrative best fits our viewpoint but at the end of the day, there are so many variables and so little public information available that we don't have the slightest idea what we're talking about.

[Mike Sixel]

Cross posting from the thread on other sites....at least he admits he's guessing....

 

JTT
9:21 Why does nobody seem to want the twins job? The team is basically begging for people to interview and guys are turning them down. I realize the team sucks and ownership is less than ideal but the Angels/mariners jobs were considered difficult and they got their guys pretty easily. Hell even the Marlins went relatively smooth

 

Jeff Sullivan
9:23 I'm going to guess this is more a case of just a few people saying no, and generating headlines. The Twins are going to fill their jobs and they will presumably fill them with quality candidates. It's mostly a desirable spot to work -- low expectations, great ballpark, loyal fan base. There are some issues people will have about working with ownership, and that might make it a little similar to when the Orioles had trouble finding a GM, but I can't imagine ownership is *that* off-putting
9:24 If you're a potential GM, you come in and figure you'll inherit an improving Sano, Buxton, and Berrios. There are worse places to start

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I am shocked - SHOCKED! - that both Cherrington and AA not just turned down the position but declined to even be interviewed. Individually they are kind of understandable - Cherrington more so - but I'm still very surprised. 

I view this as a positive, relatively speaking.

 

If you decline an interview, it's likely you have personal reasons to decline even considering the position. You haven't met with ownership, you don't have a real idea of the inner workings of the company, and you're declining to even learn and consider if the position is right for you. There's something outside the company that is preventing you from meeting with them at all. The reasons for this happening are as long as my arm: family, current positional happiness, general quality of life, etc.

 

If you decline after an interview, that generally means there's something about the company that's wrong and you want no part of it.

 

Who here hasn't taken an interview mostly out of curiosity, only to walk away and say "nopenopenope"? I've done it several times.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I am shocked - SHOCKED! - that both Cherrington and AA not just turned down the position but declined to even be interviewed. Individually they are kind of understandable - Cherrington more so - but I'm still very surprised. 

I'm not shocked.  Neither of them "needed" this job -- they've been there before, presumably they have some money in the bank.  Moreover, reports suggest we didn't reach out to Cherington until recently, when he was already pretty far along with Toronto.

 

I still share some of your worry, though.  Hopefully we don't see a guy like McLeod turn us down, that would be a bad sign.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I view this as a positive, relatively speaking.

 

If you decline an interview, it's likely you have personal reasons to decline even considering the position. You haven't met with ownership, you don't have a real idea of the inner workings of the company, and you're declining to learn more and see if the position is right for you. There's something outside the company that is preventing you from meeting with them at all.

 

If you decline after an interview, that generally means there's something about the company that's wrong and you want no part of it.

I don't think that quite works at this high level, though.  The Twins aren't some random unfamiliar company to Cherington and Anthropolous, even if they've never met with the owner before.  Add in what they probably heard from the search firm and other industry contacts recently, and they probably have enough information to be comfortable making a judgement without an interview.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I don't think that quite works at this high level, though.  The Twins aren't some random unfamiliar company to Cherington and Anthropolous, even if they've never met with the owner before.  Add in what they probably heard from the search firm and other industry contacts recently, and they probably have enough information to be comfortable making a judgement without an interview.

Sure, the Twins are a bit more of a known commodity but unless those guys know something really damning about Twins ownership, don't you think they'd at least take an interview if they were interested in a POBO position right now?

 

All it requires is one day of their time and zero dollars spent on their part, after which they'd walk away fully comfortable in whatever decision they decide to make.

 

It seems really weird to refuse meeting with someone for a highly sought after position if you're interested in filling that role with one of just 30 teams in the league. The risk is virtually zero to sit down and hear out the other party.