Article: Catching Grief

[Nick Nelson]

Terry Ryan and the Minnesota Twins foresaw the upcoming predicament at catcher. They knew they had only one more season on Kurt Suzuki's contract, with a bare cupboard in the minors. And so they made their move last November, acquiring John Ryan Murphy from the Yankees.

 

Unfortunately, it was essentially their only move, and it has worked out about as poorly as one could imagine. Now, the club is once again scrambling for answers.When they swapped Aaron Hicks for him, the Twins spoke of Murphy's upside with the bat. Indeed, it was his offensive potential that made Murphy a second-round pick out of high school back in 2009, when questions still surrounded his defensive position.

 

At the time of the trade, Murphy was coming off a season in which he posted a .734 OPS over 172 plate appearances as New York's backup catcher. He was also reasonably productive in the minors, so Murphy looked like a safe bet to at least hold his own in the batter's box.

 

At no point since coming over to Minnesota has he even come close to doing so.

 

Murphy endured an awful spring, going 5-for-36 with zero extra- base hits in the Grapefruit League. OK, only exhibition games, no reason for panic. Then, the season started, and he went 3-for-40 over the first month. A bit more concerning, but still a small sample for a guy maybe pressing with his new team.

 

He was sent to Triple-A in early May, and his performance there is what truly saps any sense of enthusiasm surrounding his abilities. In 68 games with Rochester, Murphy owns a horrendous .209/.264/.279 slash line. In 239 plate appearances, he has mustered one homer and 12 doubles. After showing some signs of life in June (.802 OPS) he has gone back in the tank, with a .195 average and .438 OPS since July 1st.

 

Because the Yankees kept Murphy up as their backup catcher for the entirety of 2015, he still has an option left for 2017, meaning the Twins can afford to be patient with him in terms of control. But, in other regards, they really can't.

 

They've watched him flail away as a 25-year-old in the International League for four months now. And this week they promoted Mitch Garver to Rochester. Garver is one of the organization's most legit internal options and needs reps behind the plate, so he figures to get at least an equal timeshare the rest of the way. That leaves Murphy as an aging part-time minor-league catcher -- clearly not any kind of credible solution for next year.

 

So what is Rob Antony, or whoever succeeds him at GM, to do? Kurt Suzuki has no chance at reaching the 465 PA threshold that would have activated his 2017 option, so he's set to become a free agent. If he finishes strong he'll be one of the better options in a thin catching market so he'll likely require another multi-year deal.

 

Going down that road with a 33-year-old who has nearly 10,000 innings logged at the game's most punishing position would be unwise. Going all-out for one of the top free agents like Wilson Ramos or Matt Wieters would be out of character, but perhaps a nice opportunity for the newly arranged front office to make a statement. We'll see about that one.

 

If there's one thing that has played out favorably with Minnesota's dire catching situation this year, it has been the emergence of Juan Centeno. The 26-year-old came up when Murphy was sent down and has shown all the traits of a quality backup. He's a solid receiver, he makes contact at the plate and he's even got a bit of pop.

 

But a backup is not what the Twins are seeking. It's not what they were seeking when they dealt for Murphy. They were hoping to sneakily pluck away a starter from another organization, and sadly that approach fizzled. Now, it's back to the drawing board, with an even greater sense of urgency than they felt a year ago.

 

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[Otwins]

I don't see them going for Wieters or Ramos.  They would require multi years probably at least four and they would block Turner and Garver. I think it will be Suzuki again and again (probably a two year deal)

[Homer Hanky]

Any chance we could get one of the 4 catchers on the Rays top 30 list for Arcia? 

 

Why did we not keep Hicks... the Catcher longer then we did? 

 

 

[dgwills]

The J.R. Murphy trade could of been worse. Hicks has been terrible. His absence has given other people a chance to play and they have played well. Addition by subtraction.

I'm against signing any catchers long term. High end pitching is what this team is going to need to be a contender. We need to save our pennies for free agency in 2018.

The longest I'd go on Suzuki would be two years. Other than that, sign a veteran on a one year deal and see if anyone else steps up. I'd also look at using our first round draft pick on a college catcher next year. It's looking like there will be a couple near the top of the draft.

[The Wise One]

Is Weiters having a down year? Do people expect him to be the pre injury catcher he was ? That is not going to happen.   Ramos  5/82 (Russell Martin money) would be the starting point.  Twins  are not going to do that. 

 

Aaron Hicks. OPS+ of 50. The John Ryan Murphy trade looks almost equal.  When the Twins hire a hitting coach there will be improvement.

 

 The question becomes who do you trade for and what is the cost.  Don't bother if you think Kohl Sewart  and Trevor Plouffee and 2 other prospects on your sourpuss list are going to get you a top ranked catching prospect unless Stewart no hits ta AA team a couple of times  this year and the parent club takes notice. club  hotshot prospect

At some point the decision is what is the cost of a gain from Suzuki versus paying Suzuki his couple million

[nytwinsfan]

Let's platoon Garver and Centeno next year. Then look at the market the year after.

[troyhobbs]

Centeno doesn't seem to be much of a downgrade from Suzuki so think I'm moving on from Suzuki in any case. They should probably go for a FA or make a trade. Maybe Centeno could hold it down for a year or 2 though too....? Basically, I'm not sure.

[big dog]

I believe the Hicks referenced above was not Aaron Hicks, but was John Hicks, the catcher we picked up from Seattle who was waived to make room for the outfielder who retired rather than get called up (Murphy?- too many Murphys and Hicks's in this thread).  John Hicks was picked up by Detroit and currently has an OPS of .858 in AAA Toledo.

[big dog]

 

Centeno doesn't seem to be much of a downgrade from Suzuki so think I'm moving on from Suzuki in any case. They should probably go for a FA or make a trade. Maybe Centeno could hold it down for a year or 2 though too....? Basically, I'm not sure.

I'd like to see Centeno catch a ball that bounces in front of the plate once before settling on him.  He does some things well, but man is he weak on balls in the dirt.

[Jack Torse]

Guys like Gleeman were critical of not moving him.  For the reasons pointed out here is why they couldn't. 

[nytwinsfan]

 

Guys like Gleeman were critical of not moving him.  For the reasons pointed out here is why they couldn't. 

 

Umm, nope. The reasons pointed out here apply to next season. Trading him would have had no affect on our ability to resign him next year.

[Old Twins Cap]

Murphy hits one 3-run jack at Target Field in 2015 and for that, he became la desiderata of Terry Ryan's catching fantasy.

 

And Suzuki, his lack of arm doesn't mean much this year, during a down year, but put the Twins in some close games and a pennant race ... that's when it will be a glaring weakness.

 

Only need a shortstop, a catcher and a CF'er at this point.  LOL.  Oh and a pitching staff.

[jimmer]

 

 

 

Only need a shortstop, a catcher and a CF'er at this point.  LOL.  Oh and a pitching staff.

I'm fine with having Polanco at shortstop.

[Winston Smith]

Maybe they could move Sano to catcher, he's very athletic.

[Comrade Bork]

Good to see Garver make the jump to AAA.

[Platoon]

I am not as versed in the abilities of MiLB catchers as some are here. But I always hear that Turners defense is MLB ready? If so, could we not have a good defensive catcher, and let our 6 corner IF and DH types carry the offense. I am far from a Suzuki fan, but watching Centeno whiff on the low balls over and over, mitigates some of my Suzuki angst. It's hard to throw the low breaking ball late in the count, when you have no idea if your catcher will block it.

[TheBoofIsLoose]

The odds have to be low for Suzuki being as offensively capable next year and we know his defensive range. Centeno can potentially be a temporary stopgap until some of these younger guys get their shot. It's a tough market, there is a dearth of catching talent across the league.  

[Vanimal46]

This team is between a rock and a hard place for the C position. Don't want to keep hitching our wagon to Suzuki every year, but there's nothing too intriguing available on the market, and I'm not sold on Murphy or Centeno. 

That being said, I'd be more intrigued with a Jason Castro or Nick Hundley signing and see who out of Garver/Turner/Centeno/Murphy steps up for the backup spot. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

They've watched him flail away as a 25-year-old in the International League for four months now. And this week they promoted Mitch Garver to Rochester. Garver is one of the organization's most legit internal options and needs reps behind the plate, so he figures to get at least an equal timeshare the rest of the way. That leaves Murphy as an aging part-time minor-league catcher -- clearly not any kind of credible solution for next year.

Nick, while I agree with the overall message of the article, this made me chuckle.

 

Garver is a few months older than Murphy.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Murphy hits one 3-run jack at Target Field in 2015 and for that, he became la desiderata of Terry Ryan's catching fantasy.

I don't think that's true at all. The Twins and Yankees swapped flawed players in hopes it would work out for both teams.

 

It has failed miserably for both teams.

 

I wasn't fond of the trade but saw why it was made. Murphy's ceiling was/is "competent starter". His likely landing spot is "competent backup". The same can be said for Aaron Hicks.

 

After 110+ games in 2016, neither player has even hit his likely landing spot.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't know how to get out of this one.

 

I am not in love with long term deals for catchers, but I'd seriously look at Castro in the off season and see what he costs. 

 

Probably what I'd do:

1. Get Garver up here after the AAA season ends, and start him every other dayish.

2. If he does well, I roll the dice on him and Centeno

3. If not, and by not I mean I have ANY questions at all.....I try to sign Suzuki to a 1 year deal, with Garver in AAA getting ready.

4. Sign Castro, if I can keep it under 4 years (hahahahahaha).

5. 100% assume Murphy is not a MLB player. If he surprises me, great, but he's not in my plans.

6. Hope that one of the elite catchers in the next draft drops and he races thru the system (hope is not a strategy, btw).

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't think that's true at all. The Twins and Yankees swapped flawed players in hopes it would work out for both teams.

 

It has failed miserably for both teams.

 

I wasn't fond of the trade but saw why it was made. Murphy's ceiling was/is "competent starter". His likely landing spot is "competent backup". The same can be said for Aaron Hicks.

 

After 110+ games in 2016, neither player has even hit his likely landing spot.

 

I hated the trade. It was a buy low opportunity, that had a very low likelihood of success. But, it kept them doing something else that had a higher probability of success. To me, it was the kind of move a team makes that keeps it bad long term. 

[Shaitan]

I'd like to see if Suzuki can throw out one base stealer the rest of this season before I consider resigning him.

[alarp33]

I hope the Twins take a hint, from apparently no team wanting Suzuki at the deadline, and move on after the season.  

 

I'm on record of trying to sign Ramos, but even if they don't go that route, they can do better than Suzuki 

[Thrylos]

 

I am not as versed in the abilities of MiLB catchers as some are here. But I always hear that Turners defense is MLB ready? If so, could we not have a good defensive catcher, and let our 6 corner IF and DH types carry the offense. I am far from a Suzuki fan, but watching Centeno whiff on the low balls over and over, mitigates some of my Suzuki angst. It's hard to throw the low breaking ball late in the count, when you have no idea if your catcher will block it.

 

Turner is worse than Butera with the stick.  Just sayin'...

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I hated the trade. It was a buy low opportunity, that had a very low likelihood of success. But, it kept them doing something else that had a higher probability of success. To me, it was the kind of move a team makes that keeps it bad long term. 

I thought it was a mildly interesting trade but not likely to be a long-term solution. I thought Suzuki would get the majority of PAs to start the season and Murphy would transition into a larger role as the season progressed.

 

I felt it was a short- to mid-term "fix" that didn't really *fix* the problem, just kicked the can down the road.

 

Unfortunately, even that didn't happen.

 

I imagine the Yankees feel very similarly about the trade.

[Thrylos]

Suzuki should be gone, any way you see it:

 

a. if the Twins plan to compete in 2017, he is not good enough, he has been part of the problem

b. if the Twins plan to rebuild in 2017 with new competent leadership, there is no place for Suzuki

 

Frankly, I'd go for b. Let's see what Garver & Murphy can do.  Murphy played only in 11 games with the Twins this season in a colder than usual April.  Hard to judge.   Got to rebuild.

 

I'd be very disappointed in Antony if Suzuki is wearing a Twins' uniform on September 1st...

[mazeville]

The Twins are hardly the only team in this predicament. Anybody who plays fantasy baseball knows that it's next to impossible to find decent catchers. I can only imagine it's much harder finding good two-way catchers.

 

The problem, especially now, is that anybody who shows any decency at the plate is converted to some other position early in his career.

 

That said, I'd like to see the Twins trade Suzuki and then call up Garver or Murphy and then the one who didn't get called up in September. I'd then switch both of them the rest of the year - mixing in Centeno every now and then. 

 

At the very least, you can get some idea of what you have before you make your offseason free agency plans. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I don't know how to get out of this one.

 

I am not in love with long term deals for catchers, but I'd seriously look at Castro in the off season and see what he costs. 

 

Probably what I'd do:

1. Get Garver up here after the AAA season ends, and start him every other dayish.

2. If he does well, I roll the dice on him and Centeno

3. If not, and by not I mean I have ANY questions at all.....I try to sign Suzuki to a 1 year deal, with Garver in AAA getting ready.

4. Sign Castro, if I can keep it under 4 years (hahahahahaha).

5. 100% assume Murphy is not a MLB player. If he surprises me, great, but he's not in my plans.

6. Hope that one of the elite catchers in the next draft drops and he races thru the system (hope is not a strategy, btw).

I'd probably sign another middling veteran for 1-2 years (this time, pursue more of a defense-first guy) and just run with it.

 

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that sinking big money into the catching position is a fool's errand.

 

The Twins have enough potency around the diamond where they can live with a bad offensive catcher, provided he gives the team solid defense behind the dish.

 

I don't think a big-money catcher fits into the Twins' plans well at all. If you buy a big-name catcher, you want that guy playing 150-ish games, sliding into DH when he's not behind the plate.

 

The problem there is the Twins already have Vargas, Mauer, Sano, Park, etc. consuming those offense-first positions. If you sign Wieters to a big deal (let's ignore his underwhelming 2016 for now), is he really good enough to supplant those others guys at DH or first on occasion?

 

It seems a bit like throwing bad money at a problem to me. I'd rather see the Twins sink money into pitcher and just hold their nose when the catcher is at the plate.

[Mike Sixel]

I'd probably sign another middling veteran for 1-2 years (this time, pursue more of a defense-first guy) and just run with it.

 

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that sinking big money into the catching position is a fool's errand.

 

The Twins have enough potency around the diamond where they can live with a bad offensive catcher, provided he gives the team solid defense behind the dish.

 

I don't think a big-money catcher fits into the Twins' plans well at all. If you buy a big-name catcher, you want that guy playing 150-ish games, sliding into DH when he's not behind the plate.

 

The problem there is the Twins already have Vargas, Mauer, Sano, Park, etc. consuming those offense-first positions. If you sign Wieters to a big deal (let's ignore his underwhelming 2016 for now), is he really good enough to supplant those others guys at DH or first on occasion?

 

It seems a bit like throwing bad money at a problem to me. I'd rather see the Twins sink money into pitcher and just hold their nose when the catcher is at the plate.

Agreed.