?

 

He has never, ever, done something like that.

Bill Smith did something vaguely similar in overpaying for "proven closer" Matt Capps, so I guess whether or not we can put that on Terry Ryan depends on how tightly we think he held Smith's strings. 

 

Bill Smith did something vaguely similar in overpaying for "proven closer" Matt Capps, so I guess whether or not we can put that on Terry Ryan depends on how tightly we think he held Smith's strings. 

VERY vaguely similar.  So vaguely similar one has to squint really hard and tilt one's head. :-)

Edited July 25, 201610 yr by jimmer

Last I read, its a 4 -1 deal for Chapman

 

"Yankees that will send Aroldis Chapman from New York to Chicago in exchange for shortstop prospect Gleyber Torres, right-hander Adam Warren and minor league outfielders Billy McKinney and Rashad Crawford."

Sellers market.  Cmon Twins.....

VERY vaguely similar.  So vaguely similar one has to squint really hard and tilt one's head. :-)

Yeah, Chapman has a career 2.17 ERA and struck out over 15 per 9. Chapman does not deserve the quotes around established closer. Capps not so much.

 

I'm guessing Billy McKinney falls off most lists this offseason. He's hitting .252 with 1 HR and 2 stolen bases in 88 games at AA this year. He's still only 21 though and is coming off a strong season. 

I actually like him. I was hoping he'd be someone the Twins could snag.  Sure, the power hasn't shown up yet but the eye looks really good.  Only 21 but already 165 games in AA.  That's something.

It's a good trade for both clubs.

 

The Cubs are a favorite to win it all this year, you gotta go for it when you have the shot. Plus they can always resign Chapman after the season (but will have quite a bit of competition), they also have a ton of up the middle youngsters, so while they gave up a good prospect, it's not going to kill them.

The Yankees desperately need to get younger, this was a good first step. Trading Miller and Beltran for more young talent would be some great next steps.

Chapman is so much more than a "proven" closer. He is one of the most lethal bullpen weapons the game has seen in some time. He very easily could be the difference for the Cubs in winning it all vs not winning it all.

 

VERY vaguely similar.  So vaguely similar one has to squint really hard and tilt one's head. :-)

The intent was a very lite version of the Chapman deal.  Capps was no Chapman (and not a great trade target), and Ramos, while he was a good prospect, doesn't match up to the haul the Evil Empire is getting.

Very good haul for a guy that does no good for the Yankees right now.

I realize that Perkins was never in Chapman's league, so he wouldn't have gotten the same haul, but this is exactly what the Twins should have done with Perkins when he was good.

 

Very good haul for a guy that does no good for the Yankees right now.
I realize that Perkins was never in Chapman's league, so he wouldn't have gotten the same haul, but this is exactly what the Twins should have done with Perkins when he was good.

 

Amen......that's what a rebuild team does. 

Joe Nathan also is on the Cubs, he looked good in his one appearance so far: 1 IP, 3 k's

The Cubs could have a pretty amazing bullpen set up for the playoffs:

Chapman

Rodon

Cahill

Nathan

Strop

Wood

 

Wow!

Holy crap. I don't care how good Chapman is, that's a massive haul for two months of a reliever.

Holy crap. I don't care how good Chapman is, that's a massive haul for two months of a reliever.

The Cubs moved players that were blocked for quite awhile. There is no reason the Twins can't do the same. Berrios and Chargois are quality prospects with no apparent route to MLB due to solid highly regarded veterans blocking them!

 

Holy crap. I don't care how good Chapman is, that's a massive haul for two months of a reliever.

Massive haul? Are we talking about the same trade? Torres was the only prospect of value and he's blocked at the MLB level by a 22yo (Russell) and a 23yo (Baez), it's a position of strength we had.  The other "haul" was McKinney and he's nothing to write home about.  Plus contact, plus eye, below average power,fringe arm/glove, history of injuries but he's a corner OF so he's blocked.  Adam Warren is what the Yankees thought he was, a swingman.

 

Would it have been great to hold onto Torres and McKinney for a longer term trade asset? Yes probably.  Problem is the rotation is strong for the 2016 season, there is no other glaring oversight issue for the 2016 playoff run other than bullpen help, and left reliever and guess what Chapman fits the bill for both of those.

 

Now when the Cubs play the Nationals come October, Maddon doesn't have to contempt whether going to Richard/Wood to face Harper or Murphy with the game on the line.

 

Also, the market has now been set for a Wade Davis or a Andrew Miller type reliever..your move Washington and Texas. 

 

 

Edited July 26, 201610 yr by Bob Sacamento

How do some of these teams get all these great SS? You would think dumb ass luck would allow us one on occasion?

 

For sending a bunch of no name prospects to the Reds New York has turned it into 2 top 100 prospects and the player they traded to get Castro. Cashman did well

That's exactly why there's a fine and dangerous line between "fire sale" and "rebuilding".

 

How do some of these teams get all these great SS? You would think dumb ass luck would allow us one on occasion?

The Yankees haven't had a great SS in like 10+ years

 

Massive haul? Are we talking about the same trade? Torres was the only prospect of value and he's blocked at the MLB level by a 22yo (Russell) and a 23yo (Baez), it's a position of strength we had.  The other "haul" was McKinney and he's nothing to write home about.  Plus contact, plus eye, below average power,fringe arm/glove, history of injuries but he's a corner OF so he's blocked.  Adam Warren is what the Yankees thought he was, a swingman.

It was a massive haul.

 

Aroldis Chapman is a reliever who will pitch for the Cubs 20-ish times in the regular season and the Cubs gave up a prospect rated between #28-41 by major publications.

 

That, in itself, it quite a haul. Whether Torrres is blocked or not has absolutely nothing to do with his value as a player.

 

No, the other players aren't great... But they're still worth something. It's a haul for the Yankees any way you look at it.

 

I commend the Cubs for going big in this way. I also acknowledge they gave up a hell of a lot to do it.

It was a massive haul.

 

Aroldis Chapman is a reliever who will pitch for the Cubs 20-ish times in the regular season and the Cubs gave up a prospect rated between #28-41 by major publications.

 

That, in itself, it quite a haul. Whether Torrres is blocked or not has absolutely nothing to do with his value as a player.

 

No, the other players aren't great... But they're still worth something. It's a haul for the Yankees any way you look at it.

 

I commend the Cubs for going big in this way. I also acknowledge they gave up a hell of a lot to do it.

That is a good summation.

 

How do some of these teams get all these great SS? You would think dumb ass luck would allow us one on occasion?

In regard to the Twins, could say that for quite a few positions. Starting pitching comes to mind.

Edited July 26, 201610 yr by jimmer

 

How do some of these teams get all these great SS? You would think dumb ass luck would allow us one on occasion?

The Twins have a couple! Unfortunately they're all still 3-4-5-10 years away....

 

The Twins have a couple! Unfortunately they're all still 3-4-5-10 years away....

yeah, I' m sure they'll be great ;-)

Brandon: Obligatory question of the day. What are the Cubs doing? A lot to give up for a rental closer….

 

 

Eric A Longenhagen: I’m not quite as high on Torres as some, but yes if you’re doing value-based analysis he is a lot.

 

 

Eric A Longenhagen: There’s also something to be said for adding the most explosive closer of all time, the best in the game right now, in effort to end a historic drought of winlessness.



Q: How much of a step back does the Cubs system take after the Montgomery and Chapman trades?

 

Eric A Longenhagen: A moderate but not devastating one.  Vogelbach had no place on the big club and it's likely Torres would not have either.  This is exactly what a farm system is for when you're a contending team...

Fangraphs has another long article, on the value of RP to playoff teams....

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/valuing-relievers-correction-or-bubble/

 

Dave comes out on the side of "overpay", but that the Cubs didn't have a lot of other ways to improve their chances, they had the resources, and they did it.

I wonder if he'd still lean towards "overpay" if Chapman helps the Cubs win a WS title this year... Theo is going for GOAT status this year trying to break 2 of the longest title droughts in MLB history. I don't think he cares one bit giving up future WAR when they're a front runner to win a title this year. 

 

I wonder if he'd still lean towards "overpay" if Chapman helps the Cubs win a WS title this year... Theo is going for GOAT status this year trying to break 2 of the longest title droughts in MLB history. I don't think he cares one bit giving up future WAR when they're a front runner to win a title this year. 

This trade, along with the Montgomery one, doesn't really hurt them. And, who knows, maybe they keep Chapman. 

 

I wonder if he'd still lean towards "overpay" if Chapman helps the Cubs win a WS title this year... Theo is going for GOAT status this year trying to break 2 of the longest title droughts in MLB history. I don't think he cares one bit giving up future WAR when they're a front runner to win a title this year. 

 

Good point.  There's always the other scenario as well....they fail in October, don't resign him and he re-ups with the Yankees again the off-season.

 

Good point.  There's always the other scenario as well....they fail in October, don't resign him and he re-ups with the Yankees again the off-season.

That could happen too. In that worst-case scenario, I'd imagine they tagged Chapman with a QO, and they draft another Torres type with their comp pick.