Article: Twins Fire General Manager Terry Ryan

[d-mac]

 

I guess the first concern I have about this is that you ignore the successes that these folks have.  I do agree that the org needs new blood, but fire for the sake of firing is not a good thing either.  Smith did bring some value to the org, just not as a GM.  Putting a guy like that back in a position to which they were competent in is not bad practice.  Bad practice is firing a competent guy b/c he/she was part of the old regime, not due to the quality of his/her work. 

 

No doubt, things need to change in the org, but believe it or not, they can get worse. 

 

If the culture in the FO is toxic, you might not have any choice but to fire competent people if they've been infected with the bureaucratic malaise of the country club. 

[mazeville]

 

No one is arguing the need to bring in fresh blood.  We are arguing the idea that everyone in the org should just be canned. That was the implication here.  Smith was a good administrator.  His role in administration at this point has nothing to do with baseball operations.  If he's to be canned, it's because he's not doing a good job in that role, not because of his failures as a GM.

 

Oh, and one side note: If the Twins do bring in fresh blood, the result will almost certainly be a major organizational shakeup as many people leave the team. That always happens whenever a company appoints new leadership or when a city elects a new mayor or when a new president is inaugurated. New leaders ALWAYS bring in their own people. 

[gunnarthor]

Some of the insular stuff should be taking down a notch.  The Twins almost entirely cleared their organizational coaching staff since Ryan got back and hired the majority of new coaches from other organizations.  True, they do have some long termed people but most orgs do.  Seth can speak on it better but the minor league coaches under Smith are almost all gone.  And Ryan created a new analyst department that didn't exist before and hired one of the younger farm director's in baseball in Brad Steil (who hopefully sticks around after the new GM comes in).  He also hired away dozens of new scouts from other teams as well and added resources in Canada.  

 

Sure, Dave St Peter is still there but his impact on the baseball operations in nil.  

[Danchat]

 

I thought the tweet said the oppo.

Wait, I read the tweet wrong. Forget I said anything.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

 

 

It's indicative of a bigger problem in the organization. At that point it becomes too country club-like. It also demonstrates a real fear of making the hard decisions these guys often have to make. 

 

So yes, hard as it may be -- and no, I don't like firing anybody and it always makes me sad when it happens -- those are the things that good organizational leaders have to do. And professional sports is way too competitive for wimpy decision makers. 

 

I'm not going to argue that the organization is a bit too much on the country club side.  I am going to argue the idea of the reverse Peter principle (if such a name exists).  People rise to those jobs b/c they were good at their former jobs.  Turning around and simply canning them on principle is the wrong answer.  No doubt that the front office needs some cleaning, but if you want the best end results, then the org as a whole needs to be smart about the cleaning.  Gardy teaching baseball fundamentals and Smith continuing to push paperwork is not what is wrong with this organization unless each of these individuals still retain far more power outside of their skillsets. 

 

Based on my observations, the org needs a clearer direction at the top, and it needs some significant help on the development side.  Only Gardy is really in the cross hairs there, and I'd argue he was added b/c the FO recognized this to some extent, whether Gardy in particular is the right guy for that job, I'm not sure, but I'm responding more to the fire for the sake of firing mentality. 

 

Things can get worse.  They really can. 

[Loosey]

 

No experienced GM is going to want this job.  It's either Antony or some other first time GM.

First of all I disagree.  The club has a lot of youth with potential to be excellent in the coming years.  A new GM can use those pieces as he sees fit to make the team better and mold into his own vision.  And with any amount of success the new GM will always have a job due to the ownership's loyalty.  To fans that loyalty is a fault, to a person getting hired that is a huge plus in my opinion.

 

Why do you think that no GM would want to come here?

 

Also, I kind of want a guy with no experience who is an up and comer.  Jeremy Nygaard tweeted out the Asst GM in St. Louis.  That guy is interesting. . .

[gunnarthor]

 

If you're going to fire someone, fire someone. Don't short-arm the move by giving Smith or Gardy a "special assistant" position somewhere else in the organization. If they are as talented as you say they are, they'll find positions elsewhere. 

 

Someone please name another organization in major professional sports that gives recently fired managers and general managers the title of "special assistant" somewhere else in the organization because of their "talents." 

 

 

I think it's actually pretty common.  Off the top of my head you have Ned Colletti former Dodgers GM now the Senior Advisor and Doug Melvin, former Brewers manager who is now a senior advisor.  Both were fired from their GM and managing duties.  

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

If the culture in the FO is toxic, you might not have any choice but to fire competent people if they've been infected with the bureaucratic malaise of the country club. 

 

Toxic cultures are a bit different to deal with, and having worked in a few, I can personally attest that there's some truth to that.  Usually though, the toxicity is most noted by the competent folks who are usually the ones being held accountable for that bureaucracy b/c they don't know how to play the blame game.  This gets more difficult b/c it becomes exponentially harder to figure out who is and is not competent.

 

That said, I don't think toxicity is the problem here.  The org doesn't behave like one.  You want to see an organization that behaves in a dysfunctional manner, go look at the NFL front office.  I don't see that style of behavior in MN with the most obvious exception being the occasional media leaks clearly targeted at specific people.  I would just expect there to be more evidence of a toxic FO if that's the case.   I could be wrong there.

[d-mac]

 

I thought the tweet said the oppo.

 

I think you're right, but it wasn't very clear. I had to re-read it and think about it.

[HitInAPinch]

 

I think the Pohlads can finally sell the team this year or next and no longer have to share proceeds with the public.  This article on the ballpark plan said they couldn't sell without sharing until 2016, although it also referenced a 2009 ballpark opening, not sure if those two dates were related:

 

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20050425&content_id=1028208&vkey=pr_min&fext=.jsp&c_id=min

 

 

Just because they don't love baseball doesn't mean they don't love the money and opportunities that come with owning a team. The only reason to sell would be because they can get a better return on their investment elsewhere. Hard to beat out a sports franchise in terms of growing value.

 

Also, when does the penalty for selling the team run out? That was a stipulation of the shiny new ballpark we bought them.

"In addition, the plan, which requires no state funding, calls for the Twins to assume all operation and maintenance costs, as well as any cost overruns on the ballpark. The Twins must also commit to a 30-year, no-escape use agreement. Additionally, should the Twins be sold prior to 2016, the public will share in the proceeds of the sale."

 

I read that as the Pohlad's can sell now.  Carl paid $44M for the Twins in 1984.  Current value according to Forbes is $490M.  If I'm a businessman like Jim Pohlad, I'd find around 450 million+ reasons to sell. 

[mazeville]

 

I'm not going to argue that the organization is a bit too much on the country club side.  I am going to argue the idea of the reverse Peter principle (if such a name exists).  People rise to those jobs b/c they were good at their former jobs.  Turning around and simply canning them on principle is the wrong answer.  No doubt that the front office needs some cleaning, but if you want the best end results, then the org as a whole needs to be smart about the cleaning.  Gardy teaching baseball fundamentals and Smith continuing to push paperwork is not what is wrong with this organization unless each of these individuals still retain far more power outside of their skillsets. 

 

Based on my observations, the org needs a clearer direction at the top, and it needs some significant help on the development side.  Only Gardy is really in the cross hairs there, and I'd argue he was added b/c the FO recognized this to some extent, whether Gardy in particular is the right guy for that job, I'm not sure, but I'm responding more to the fire for the sake of firing mentality. 

 

Things can get worse.  They really can. 

 

The Twins from the get-go told both Smith and Gardy they have roles in the organization if they want them. 

 

If someone can point me to the management book that says it's a good idea to take a major voice in your organization and keep him there even after you "fired" him I'd like to see it. 

 

Again, I get they have talents. Gardenhire was a good manager for a long time. Smith should not have been hired in the first place. But the fact is, they failed the team and as sad as it is, their departures were necessary. At that point, you have to get them out of the organization. You need to send messages to people throughout the organization that there are actual penalties for failure. You also don't want any mixed messages in the organization, either. 

[BobAzar]

 

He has briefly handled GM duties in the past, when Ryan was absent while battling skin cancer in 2014

 

Total semantics, but TR had throat cancer (squamous cell can be skin or otherwise). it doesnt really matter, but it was more of a battle than just skin cancer. 

[mazeville]

 

I think it's actually pretty common.  Off the top of my head you have Ned Colletti former Dodgers GM now the Senior Advisor and Doug Melvin, former Brewers manager who is now a senior advisor.  Both were fired from their GM and managing duties.  

 

I'll give you Ned Colletti. But Doug Melvin left on his own. Regardless, I don't like it. 

[Deduno Abides]

It has to be about a disagreement about the trade deadline, doesn't it? Otherwise, why now?

 

I am still stunned.....

Either that or a disagreement about Molitor. Many of TR's moves and statements over the last several months seemed to prioritize self-preservation and explaining why the fault was either someone else's or out of his control. I wouldn't be surprised if "total system failure" originated from his office, then Pohlad got embarrassed when he realized how silly he sounded. Something small could have happened now, but it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Loosey]

 

Oh, and one side note: If the Twins do bring in fresh blood, the result will almost certainly be a major organizational shakeup as many people leave the team. That always happens whenever a company appoints new leadership or when a city elects a new mayor or when a new president is inaugurated. New leaders ALWAYS bring in their own people. 

Also other people in leadership roles reporting to the new leader (usually under performing people) leave on there own because they fear the new leader will see what the previous leader did not.  And that is a good thing for all parties.

[gocgo]

I'll try to kill 3 birds with one stone - Why wouldn't an experienced GM want this job?

 

Because of the handcuffs put on by the Pohlad family.  I know they said there wasn't a budget, but I don't think it's a secret that the Pohlad's target is 52 percent of revenue for a salary base.  That's actually not a bad target based on some other similar teams (throwing out Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees) and some other teams like Detroit (69 percent in 2015).  The Twins were at 49 percent in 2015 and I haven't seen what this year is yet.  However, when your revenues are 8th lowest in the league and are falling as any reasonable person would expect the Twins revenue to be, you can see where the handcuffs come into play.  So, how do the Twins lure an experienced GM away from another team?

 

Well, you either throw a pile of cash at them (not likely to happen), or you find another floundering franchise to pick off their GM (not a smart thing to do if you think the GM is part of the problem).  So, perhaps I should have revised my statement by saying that no quality experienced GM is going to want the job.

Edited July 18, 2016 by gocgo

[mazeville]

 

Some of the insular stuff should be taking down a notch.  The Twins almost entirely cleared their organizational coaching staff since Ryan got back and hired the majority of new coaches from other organizations.  True, they do have some long termed people but most orgs do.  Seth can speak on it better but the minor league coaches under Smith are almost all gone.  And Ryan created a new analyst department that didn't exist before and hired one of the younger farm director's in baseball in Brad Steil (who hopefully sticks around after the new GM comes in).  He also hired away dozens of new scouts from other teams as well and added resources in Canada.  

 

Sure, Dave St Peter is still there but his impact on the baseball operations in nil.  

 

Many of the managers hired in the minors are people who grew up with the Twins, so to speak. And simply creating an analyst department at a time when literally every team in the majors has one is hardly indicative of an organization that is not insular.

 

All of the top jobs are the same but for Steil's. The same team has been at the top of this organization for many years. And even when Terry Ryan left the organization, he was a "special assistant" helping out.

 

Yes, this organization is insular. Just because they've hired a few people does not make that untrue. 

[Loosey]

 

Either that or a disagreement about Molitor. Many of TR's moves and statements over the last several months seemed to prioritize self-preservation and explaining why the fault was either someone else's or out of his control. I wouldn't be surprised if "total system failure" originated from his office, then Pohlad got embarrassed when he realized how silly he sounded. Something small could have happened now, but it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

I think this was happening behind the scenes for a while.  A few weeks back Pohlad did an interview and was less than pleased with Ryan.  It's the first time he hasn't been anything but supportive in my memory.   I wonder if he hasn't been talking to other baseball people, owners etc to figure out who might be available who to use as a search firm to get a new GM. 

[Mike Sixel]

Interesting that they can sell next year......w/o sharing in profits.....

[Taildragger8791]

 

"In addition, the plan, which requires no state funding, calls for the Twins to assume all operation and maintenance costs, as well as any cost overruns on the ballpark. The Twins must also commit to a 30-year, no-escape use agreement. Additionally, should the Twins be sold prior to 2016, the public will share in the proceeds of the sale."

 

I read that as the Pohlad's can sell now.  Carl paid $44M for the Twins in 1984.  Current value according to Forbes is $490M.  If I'm a businessman like Jim Pohlad, I'd find around 450 million+ reasons to sell. 

 

Even though the penalty period has expired it doesn't mean it makes business sense to cash out. It only makes sense if they think the Twins valuation has maxed out or is slowing in growth to the point that they can reallocate that investment elsewhere for a bigger return. $450 million in the bank doesn't do anything for you and they have plenty of other assets to play with. I don't see them selling unless they just don't want to put the energy into the team anymore.

[d-mac]

 

Toxic cultures are a bit different to deal with, and having worked in a few, I can personally attest that there's some truth to that.  Usually though, the toxicity is most noted by the competent folks who are usually the ones being held accountable for that bureaucracy b/c they don't know how to play the blame game.  This gets more difficult b/c it becomes exponentially harder to figure out who is and is not competent.

 

That said, I don't think toxicity is the problem here.  The org doesn't behave like one.  You want to see an organization that behaves in a dysfunctional manner, go look at the NFL front office.  I don't see that style of behavior in MN with the most obvious exception being the occasional media leaks clearly targeted at specific people.  I would just expect there to be more evidence of a toxic FO if that's the case.   I could be wrong there.

 

I think it's really an asymmetric information problem. It becomes difficult from a management or ownership perspective to determine who is and isn't part of the problem. 

[PseudoSABR]

I wonder if a GM search has been going on for some time, and as the process necessarily needs to go through more public avenues, the time to dismiss TR was now.  If that's the case, perhaps we could see a new GM sooner rather than later; certainly an incoming GM would rather have control of the organization prior to the trade deadline. 

 

In any case, really glad to see the Twins made this move sooner rather than later; I was worried they would be too gun shy to pull the trigger at all.   This also probably suggests that Molitor might not be safe, as the new GM I bet will want the authority to make the final decision on a manager.

[twinsfanstreif]

So weird, I would've thought a forced retirement would be in order for a guy who has served this organization for as long as he did. It needed to happen but honestly he never should've came back after Smith was canned, that set us back several years

[Deduno Abides]

The Twins from the get-go told both Smith and Gardy they have roles in the organization if they want them. 

 

If someone can point me to the management book that says it's a good idea to take a major voice in your organization and keep him there even after you "fired" him I'd like to see it. 

 

Again, I get they have talents. Gardenhire was a good manager for a long time. Smith should not have been hired in the first place. But the fact is, they failed the team and as sad as it is, their departures were necessary. At that point, you have to get them out of the organization. You need to send messages to people throughout the organization that there are actual penalties for failure. You also don't want any mixed messages in the organization, either.

 

Probably agree that Bill Smith should not have been a GM in this era, but everyone should remember that no Bill Smith = no Jim Thome, no Sano, no Kepler, probably no Berrios and possibly no Buxton. A lot of bad decisions happened under his watch, sure, but he was the driver for obtaining the most positive parts of the team's future and the continuation of bad decisions after his removal suggests that he should get a break.

[tobi0040]

I also think the timing could have been based on the playing time/quick leash of young prospects and the fact that guys like Nolasco are still around. It would not shock me if this has been a source of disagreement between Terry and ownership. The job of the GM is to quickly shift gears when you drop out of contention and focus on the future. By almost any measure, Terry gets a really bad grade here.

 

We will likely never know for sure, but if we see a rash of promotions (Berrios, Chargios, etc.) and a few more DFA’s in the coming days then I think this could be the case.

[wsnydes]

 

Even though the penalty period has expired it doesn't mean it makes business sense to cash out. It only makes sense if they think the Twins valuation has maxed out or is slowing in growth to the point that they can reallocate that investment elsewhere for a bigger return. $450 million in the bank doesn't do anything for you and they have plenty of other assets to play with. I don't see them selling unless they just don't want to put the energy into the team anymore.

That's a good point.  Now probably isn't the optimal time to sell a franchise after five 90+ loss seasons in six seasons.  They may be trending up, but now hardly seems like the best time to sell.

[Deduno Abides]

I think this was happening behind the scenes for a while.  A few weeks back Pohlad did an interview and was less than pleased with Ryan.  It's the first time he hasn't been anything but supportive in my memory.   I wonder if he hasn't been talking to other baseball people, owners etc to figure out who might be available who to use as a search firm to get a new GM.

 

I agree. Pohlad leans to being hands-off, but he's probably felt compelled to be more hands-on and the more he looked, the less he liked.

[gmarais66]

 

I'll try to kill 3 birds with one stone - Why wouldn't an experienced GM want this job?

 

Because of the handcuffs put on by the Pohlad family.  I know they said there wasn't a budget, but I don't think it's a secret that the Pohlad's target is 52 percent of revenue for a salary base.  That's actually not a bad target based on some other similar teams (throwing out Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees) and some other teams like Detroit (69 percent in 2015).  The Twins were at 49 percent in 2015 and I haven't seen what this year is yet.  However, when your revenues are 8th lowest in the league and are falling as any reasonable person would expect the Twins revenue to be, you can see where the handcuffs come into play.  So, how do the Twins lure an experienced GM away from another team?

 

Well, you either throw a pile of cash at them (not likely to happen), or you find another floundering franchise to pick off their GM (not a smart thing to do if you think the GM is part of the problem).  So, perhaps I should have revised my statement by saying that no quality experienced GM is going to want the job.

The fatal flaws with your argument are that you are equating the amount of money a team spends with their on-field success, which we all know is a myth; and that you are suggesting you know how much the Pohlads are willing to spend, which you don't. I think the Twins' GM job would be attractive for many qualified candidates, because of the young talent pool and the possibility for short-term and long-term success.

[Mike Sixel]

I think it is too early to guess that Ryan was not for what you want this trade deadline and Pohlad was for what you want (no matter what you want)........or vice versa.

[gunnarthor]

 

I also think the timing could have been based on the playing time/quick leash of young prospects and the fact that guys like Nolasco are still around. It would not shock me if this has been a source of disagreement between Terry and ownership. The job of the GM is to quickly shift gears when you drop out of contention and focus on the future. By almost any measure, Terry gets a really bad grade here.

We will likely never know for sure, but if we see a rash of promotions (Berrios, Chargios, etc.) and a few more DFA’s in the coming days then I think this could be the case.

Wouldn't the playing time/quick hooks on our younger players be on Molitor, not Ryan?