Article: Setting Up For The Second Half

[jimmer]

 

Consider that TR may have thought this team wasn't going anywhere and that they over-achieved last year.  He would have been highly unlikely to go after a big name FA reliever or veteran outfielder, exactly what happened.  He also could not embrace a total rebuild (nor would that have been wise before seeing how quickly our young talent can develop).  As such, TR may have viewed this season as a season of patience.  If so, we need to continue to be patient.  If not, TR probably should go and that should be priority 1.

Well, in the interview with Pohlad, he said the organization believed the team would be better this year than last and that there was no flaw in that logic.  So yeah, your last sentence applies.

Edited June 27, 2016 by jimmer

[Pardon My Dinger]

Does anybody want to see what a Buxton trade could bring in yet? Take the sure thing, maybe? 

[Blackjack]

 

Leaving him in the pen is silly. He has made it clear, crystal, that the lack of days off make it physically difficult for him. He's been down twice already for that reason. While I realize ho difficult it is to break into this stellar rotation, they need to figure out something,

He needs to pitch some innings and build up arm strength before they can start him.  

[Blackjack]

Nick,

 

I like all five of your steps!!

 

6) I would also add trade Nolasco (to the Dodgers?) so Berrios could be brought up.

7) Trade E. Santana to open up another starting spot so some of the other minor league starters can get some innings, they need to see what they have - but only trade him if they can get good value in return, I still think Santana can provide some stable innings next year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Buxton has played his best ball when Walker was in the outfield with him.  Haha

 

Just joking but true.

I know this is the part of the "find anything positive about Adam Brett Walker" joke/meme, but I'm not sure the evidence supports it anyway.  Buxton has played both with and without Walker at only two levels:

 

A+ without Walker (2013): 155 wRC+

A+ with Walker (2014): 106 wRC+

 

AAA without Walker (2015): 190 wRC+

AAA with Walker (2016): 189 wRC+

[alarp33]

There seems to be a lot of people in this, and other threads that want to trade Ervin Santana.  I'm not a big fan of his, and understand he might have some value (at least compared to the Plouffe's, Suzukis, etc.).. but if he is traded, who in the hell is in the 2017 rotation? 

 

If Terry Ryan is back (shudders at the thought)

 

Berrios

Gibson

Duffey - Not exactly someone I want to write in stone, but compared to the other options, sure. 

Hughes? Maybe I guess, but hopefully not

Nolasco? - No

May? No. This staff has no interest in him starting

Meyer? No

Pat Dean, Jason Wheeler?  God I hope not

 

Are we wanting to trade Santana's last 2 years so TR can overpay another #5 starter this offseason, with 4 years?

 

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

 

Walker would be fun in September.

 

Walker makes Delmon look like Willie Mays on the field, and Buxton look like Barry Bonds as far as Ks and BBs go at the plate.

Would be fun to see Walker traded within the division in September... 

[troyhobbs]

 

There seems to be a lot of people in this, and other threads that want to trade Ervin Santana.  I'm not a big fan of his, and understand he might have some value (at least compared to the Plouffe's, Suzukis, etc.).. but if he is traded, who in the hell is in the 2017 rotation? 

 

If Terry Ryan is back (shudders at the thought)

 

Berrios

Gibson

Duffey - Not exactly someone I want to write in stone, but compared to the other options, sure. 

Hughes? Maybe I guess, but hopefully not

Nolasco? - No

May? No. This staff has no interest in him starting

Meyer? No

Pat Dean, Jason Wheeler?  God I hope not

 

Are we wanting to trade Santana's last 2 years so TR can overpay another #5 starter this offseason, with 4 years?

Despite how bad their lineup is the pitching staff is way worse and the main reason it doesn't pay to hold on to anybody pushing 30 regardless of the ROI. 5 years into TR's rebuild and they still have the worst staff in baseball. There is a lot of work to do there.....

[jorgenswest]

He needs to pitch some innings and build up arm strength before they can start him.

 

They have an opportunity to do that in rehab. Edited June 27, 2016 by jorgenswest

[HitInAPinch]

 

Does anybody want to see what a Buxton trade could bring in yet? Take the sure thing, maybe? 

No.  And at his stage of development, nobody should. 

 

I keep pointing back to the Strib article about the Red Sox letting your players develop:

http://www.startribune.com/phil-miller-s-sunday-insider-red-sox-show-how-patience-with-prospects-can-be-rewarded/383534181/

 

This is what the Twins should be doing with Buxton.  I actually got to see Bradley Jr. playing in those days.  My god he was awful.

[Kwak]

 

There seems to be a lot of people in this, and other threads that want to trade Ervin Santana.  I'm not a big fan of his, and understand he might have some value (at least compared to the Plouffe's, Suzukis, etc.).. but if he is traded, who in the hell is in the 2017 rotation? 

 

If Terry Ryan is back (shudders at the thought)

 

Berrios

Gibson

Duffey - Not exactly someone I want to write in stone, but compared to the other options, sure. 

Hughes? Maybe I guess, but hopefully not

Nolasco? - No

May? No. This staff has no interest in him starting

Meyer? No

Pat Dean, Jason Wheeler?  God I hope not

 

Are we wanting to trade Santana's last 2 years so TR can overpay another #5 starter this offseason, with 4 years?

This.

Posters can complain about Nolasco, Hughes, and Santana all they want--but they need to have 5 in the rotation. We have found that etching names in stone is pointless. Every prospect has his own cheerleader squad but that doesn't make him a fixture on the staff. Basically everyone that gets promoted is soon followed by "whatinhell did people see in this bum?"

[Vanimal46]

 

Does anybody want to see what a Buxton trade could bring in yet? Take the sure thing, maybe? 

I'd be interested to find out. But this is Minnesota, where there is an irrational fear that everyone who leaves will develop into a future HOF player. 

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

No.  And at his stage of development, nobody should. 

 

I keep pointing back to the Strib article about the Red Sox letting your players develop:

http://www.startribune.com/phil-miller-s-sunday-insider-red-sox-show-how-patience-with-prospects-can-be-rewarded/383534181/

 

This is what the Twins should be doing with Buxton.  I actually got to see Bradley Jr. playing in those days.  My god he was awful.

I'm not calling Buxton a bust. I'd just be interested if there were a way to know what kind of a haul he could bring back. We have more needs than just CF. 

[Thrylos]

 

Does anybody want to see what a Buxton trade could bring in yet? Take the sure thing, maybe? 

 

It would bring less that it would had (let's say) 2 off-seasons ago... 

[Jham]

 

Well, in the interview with Pohlad, he said the organization believed the team would be better this year than last and that there was no flaw in that logic.  So yeah, your last sentence applies.

I would guess you're probably right.  I'm not sure what more TR could really have done without making it look like we were punting after putting together a decent season.  I'm willing to see if he makes any changes in scouting, player development, and rebuilding now that he has an excuse to do so without public backlash.  Time to bring back the Get to Know Em t-shirts maybe...

[nytwinsfan]

Yup, agree 100% with all 5 plus bring Berrios up in next two weeks.

[Blackjack]

 

They have an opportunity to do that in rehab.

What I was thinking and didn't explain very well was:

 

People are complaining about him pitching in a relief role in Rochester,

 

He needs to pitch some innings and build up arm strength before they can start him. 

 

Whether those starts come in Rochester or Target Field is debatable but to me the process should be like spring training, longer relief outings each time in Rochester, a couple of starts in Rochester, then bring him back up.  Bitching about a relief appearance in Rochester is stupid, at this point he just needs to pitch.

 

[HitInAPinch]

 

I'm not calling Buxton a bust. I'd just be interested if there were a way to know what kind of a haul he could bring back. We have more needs than just CF. 

Uff da, that's a tough one.  Well, you could market Buxton on prospect status, recent stellar performance at AAA and youth.  Maybe a couple prospects in return?

[Nick Nelson]

 

Whether those starts come in Rochester or Target Field is debatable but to me the process should be like spring training, longer relief outings each time in Rochester, a couple of starts in Rochester, then bring him back up.  Bitching about a relief appearance in Rochester is stupid, at this point he just needs to pitch.

The problem is that May has shown a tendency to go all-out, full bore in shortened relief stints. I heard reports that he was touching 95/96 in yesterday's appearance. I would prefer that he worked less intensely over longer outings.

[MileHighTwinsFan]

Not sure saying Grossman does not fit into the long term plans makes sense.  While not a flashy player - he is a mature and stable presence in the lineup right now.  He takes walks, can hit with power and is a solid if not stellar defender.  In many respects he is everything Rosario is not.  

 

I think left-field is Grossman's for the foreseeable future.   With Kepler proving to be a far more consistent and reliable player than either Rosario and Buxton - it appears that the issue is between Eddie and Byron.   Both have a huge upside, but I am beginning to think there may not be room for two young, talented, strikeout prone outfielders on this team.    

 

I am sure the team still sees Buxton as having the bigger upside between the two. I also think the team is pretty comfortable with Santana as the fourth outfielder.

 

I would not be surprised to see Rosario wearing a different uniform either this season or next.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

I don't see any chance Buxton is traded. I know it's not gold....but he was barely in the top 50 most valued assets on Fangraphs trading value chart, last year.....he's a year older, and has shown that, SO FAR, he can't hit MLB pitching.

 

I think he's worth a lot less than his upside right now, and I just can't see how he could possibly be dealt for value. Who is going to give up multiple highly regarded prospects for him right now? 

[mazeville]

Twins could make room in the bullpen by trading Abad. They'd get something in return and it would be a nice flip for Terry Ryan.

 

All that said, I'd also consider some offseason moves, notably a Brian Dozier trade -- or perhaps by trading Jorge Polanco for another pitching prospect that's nearly major league ready, though I'd prefer a Dozier trade personally. 

 

Frankly, I think this team needs a major overhaul during the trade deadline and the offseason. That overhaul probably needs to start in the front office. 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

My preference is to keep Santana, but if they get a decent offer, I think they trade him.  I'd prioritize Nolasco for the moment, and possibly Hughes, though I think he's untradeable.

 

My 2017 rotation would be as follows.  That means Milone and Nolasco aren't around and Hughes is still in the pen (or gone as well).  At least with that one there's young talent taking some lumps, and you'll likely be seeing Gonsalves/Stewart/Romero and company pushing for a spot in AAA at some point next year. 

 

Gibson

May

Berrios

Santana

Duffy/Meyer

 

Rochester/emergency starters:

Pat Dean/Taylor Rogers

 

Rotation isn't too exciting, but May, Berrios, and Meyer all have upside.  Duffy has shown he can be decent in stretches, and while he might top out as a 3/4 guy, I'd be fine letting him learn on the job. 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

What I was thinking and didn't explain very well was:

 

People are complaining about him pitching in a relief role in Rochester,

 

He needs to pitch some innings and build up arm strength before they can start him. 

 

Whether those starts come in Rochester or Target Field is debatable but to me the process should be like spring training, longer relief outings each time in Rochester, a couple of starts in Rochester, then bring him back up.  Bitching about a relief appearance in Rochester is stupid, at this point he just needs to pitch.

I don't think anyone is really complaining just because his first rehab appearance was in relief.

 

I think people are complaining that there has been no mention of a plan for him to start again this season, which should be a rather obvious objective by now.

Edited June 27, 2016 by spycake

[wsnydes]

 

My preference is to keep Santana, but if they get a decent offer, I think they trade him.  I'd prioritize Nolasco for the moment, and possibly Hughes, though I think he's untradeable.

 

My 2017 rotation would be as follows.  That means Milone and Nolasco aren't around and Hughes is still in the pen (or gone as well).  At least with that one there's young talent taking some lumps, and you'll likely be seeing Gonsalves/Stewart/Romero and company pushing for a spot in AAA at some point next year. 

 

Gibson

May

Berrios

Santana

Duffy/Meyer

 

Rochester/emergency starters:

Pat Dean/Taylor Rogers

 

Rotation isn't too exciting, but May, Berrios, and Meyer all have upside.  Duffy has shown he can be decent in stretches, and while he might top out as a 3/4 guy, I'd be fine letting him learn on the job. 

I like how you laid that out.  I'd prefer to hang on to Santana as well, but am not opposed to dealing him.  With the group that you mentioned that are already here or waiting in the wings, it would be nice to have at least one veteran in the group.  Gibson has the years, but Santana has the experience.

[Winston Smith]

Pitching, pitching and more pitching. Until that is fixed, and I've seen nothing from Terry in the past that says he can fix it, this team isn't going to be serious playoff team.

What Terry does best is nibble around the edges with fringe players. This team needs a whole lot more than nibbling around the edges, imo.

[Thrylos]

 

Not sure saying Grossman does not fit into the long term plans makes sense.  While not a flashy player - he is a mature and stable presence in the lineup right now.  He takes walks, can hit with power and is a solid if not stellar defender.  In many respects he is everything Rosario is not.  

 

 

.196 /.315/.304:

 

Grossman's slash line the last 2 weeks

 

 .300/.345/.480:

 

Rosario's slash line the last 2 weeks.

[Blackjack]

 

.196 /.315/.304:

 

Grossman's slash line the last 2 weeks

 

 .300/.345/.480:

 

Rosario's slash line the last 2 weeks.

I think they brought Buxton back too soon - granted, it was because of an injury, but lets not repeat the mistake. Leave Rosario in AAA for a few more weeks to make sure the 'take good at bats and play smarter' lesson is learned. Plus it gives Grossman a few more weeks to prove whether he was a flash in the pan or a serviceable player.  It was almost too good to be true to think that two other teams had released him yet he was a keeper for the Twins.

[laloesch]

 

There seems to be a lot of people in this, and other threads that want to trade Ervin Santana.  I'm not a big fan of his, and understand he might have some value (at least compared to the Plouffe's, Suzukis, etc.).. but if he is traded, who in the hell is in the 2017 rotation? 

 

If Terry Ryan is back (shudders at the thought)

 

Berrios

Gibson

Duffey - Not exactly someone I want to write in stone, but compared to the other options, sure. 

Hughes? Maybe I guess, but hopefully not

Nolasco? - No

May? No. This staff has no interest in him starting

Meyer? No

Pat Dean, Jason Wheeler?  God I hope not

 

Are we wanting to trade Santana's last 2 years so TR can overpay another #5 starter this offseason, with 4 years?

 

Why wouldn't the Twins trade Santana if the right offer came along and they could get something of value for him?  He's been busted for PED's, he's 33 and he's only under contract for two more years.  The Twins aren't going to extend him beyond age 35/36.  This team is a 100 loss team with or without him.    

Edited June 27, 2016 by laloesch

[Blackjack]

 

I don't think anyone is really complaining just because his first rehab appearance was in relief.

 

I think people are complaining that there has been no mention of a plan for him to start again this season, which should be a rather obvious objective by now.

Not going to bother going back to 3 pages but the impression I got was that people were complaining about him pitching in relief again.