Article: Oswaldo Arcia And The Limits Of Patience

[KirbyDome89]

 

Yes, but "supposedly" to whom?  Arcia and Santana BOTH stink.  Arcia was deemed most expendable…for now.  The Arcia/Santana debate is a bit like the Dean/Zach Jones thread; a lot of teeth gnashing over fringe players.  Given Dean's modest mediocrity vs. Jones frustrating ineffectuality, I'd say Ryan and crew guessed correctly on that move.

 

My biggest takeaway from the Arcia deal is a positive--the Twins didn't demote Kepler in order to hang onto an "asset" with "potential."

The comparison is actually pretty good but I would argue it the other way. The Twins knew what they had in Dean, a AAAA player who could get a few guys out in the big leagues if needed in a pinch. Jones is a hard thrower who has struggled with command but if he settled down could be a big league asset. Pitchers like Dean are readily available, just like middle IF with below average hitting and defense (Santana) are. Arcia might have a limited skill set but the skill he does possess is hard to find. You know what you're getting with Santana and it isn't good. Why not roll the dice on Arcia and actually give him consistent ABs? Even if he flames out, at the end of the day you're in the same position you were with Santana, a bad player holding a spot on the 25 man roster.

 

As a side note I don't think the move should be viewed as Arica vs. Santana. There were plenty of other options available where the Twins could have kept both players. To me its another example of the Twins seeking comfort in the evil they know. 

[mazeville]

 

There's no way Arcia should be playing over Kepler, Buxton, and even Grossman right now. Miguel Sano is going to be coming back to take up the DH spot soon too. That is focusing on young players.

 

And Danny Santana is going to be playing probably once, maybe twice, a week.

 

Not saying that. But you could rotate the four easily, especially with Buxton flailing at the plate, while giving Santana playing time in the infield and outfield.

 

You could also rotate Arcia into the DH spot to face righthanders. Hell, one of the better options would be to send Park down to rediscover his swing and so Arcia could be the everyday DH. 

 

Give the guy some regular playing time. It doesn't have to be every day. But work with him and put him in good situations. 

 

[wsnydes]

 

As a side note I don't think the move should be viewed as Arica vs. Santana. There were plenty of other options available where the Twins could have kept both players. To me its another example of the Twins seeking comfort in the evil they know. 

I would agree with that.  There is a list of guys I'd rather have seen DFA'd than Arcia.  Santana is on there, but a few bullpen guys are on the list ahead of him.  Moli just needs to learn to be more efficient with his bullpen use so that they can go down to 12 pitchers.  I think Arcia vs Santana kind of misses the point.  It's the pitching that are the worst offenders of keeping this team out of games.

[mazeville]

 

I don't disagree with any of your points either.  Perhaps the team was trying to find out how much he wants it?  Maybe they didn't feel like he was working hard enough?  I don't know.  For whatever reason, they kept him in AAA and he didn't react well.  At that point, you certainly can't call him up whether he earned it or not prior to that season.  

 

Keep in mind that I'm not questioning how hard he worked, merely stating that perhaps he needed to work even harder to get back.  That's what I would have done in that situation, but that is my mentality.  Like I said, life isn't always fair.

  

The Twins shouldn't and don't deserve to get a pass on him, but I can't say that Arcia is blameless either.  

 

Arcia is definitely not blameless here. Something isn't clicking.

 

But as a fan, I've watched as players like David Ortiz, Carlos Gomez, Danny Valencia, Chris Colabello, Francisco Liriano and JJ Hardy leave for other teams and thrive. I'm tired of it. 

 

Given that history, this team deserves zero -- ZERO -- benefit of the doubt when it comes to someone like Arcia. Not one bit. 

 

That's why so many people on here are angry. We have a garbage team. And you could field a very, very good team with our castoffs who went and became all stars on other teams. 

[bluechipper]

 

Not saying that. But you could rotate the four easily, especially with Buxton flailing at the plate, while giving Santana playing time in the infield and outfield.

 

You could also rotate Arcia into the DH spot to face righthanders. Hell, one of the better options would be to send Park down to rediscover his swing and so Arcia could be the everyday DH. 

 

Give the guy some regular playing time. It doesn't have to be every day. But work with him and put him in good situations. 

Sano should be back soon and taking up the DH spot. Rotating the 3 outfielders doesn't solve much because Buxton and Kepler should be playing every single game and Grossman has been the team's best hitter for a month.

[LaBombo]

 

Nick wrote a thoughtful, well-written article that raises some valid points. Arcia is still a very one-dimensional player. He hasn't done much in his past two (extremely limited) looks in the bigs. And he's often been plagued by absolutely ridiculous hair styles (ok, maybe Nick didn't mention that one).

 

And probably when Nick wrote the passage below, he was speaking in broader terms about the game in general rather than just the Twins and Arcia.

 

But as the kids say, O... M... G...:

 

All of the hand-wringing over the decision to designate Arcia overlooks the basic realities of the situation. You need to earn things on merit in Major League Baseball and he wasn't doing it

 

 

Merit ?!?! The 2016 Minnesota Twins are a virtually merit-free zone! They are empirically and indisputably the most merit-less team in baseball as measured by W/L record.

 

If merit were rocket fuel, the Twins wouldn't have enough for a manned mission to Walmart.

 

Oswaldo Arcia batted .231/.300/.452 and compiled a defense-hobbled 0.9 WAR in 410 PA's. He was the best power hitter on that team. It was enough to earn him exactly 65 more plate appearances in 2015 - two weeks' worth.

 

I can think of half a dozen Twins who did less than Arcia did in 2014 yet somehow 'earned' far more of an opportunity to play through their struggles.

Edited June 20, 2016 by LaBombo

[mazeville]

 

Sano should be back soon and taking up the DH spot. Rotating the 3 outfielders doesn't solve much because Buxton and Kepler should be playing every single game and Grossman has been the team's best hitter for a month.

 

No. Sano should be playing third -- and he won't be back for two weeks at the very least. 

 

I don't know what the heck this team is going to do about Trevor Plouffe and his .636 OPS and his gigantic contract. But it should no longer block Sano at third base. Not at all. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

And Danny Santana is going to be playing probably once, maybe twice, a week.

Even though he has played in all three games since he came off the DL

[alarp33]

 

Sano should be back soon and taking up the DH spot. Rotating the 3 outfielders doesn't solve much because Buxton and Kepler should be playing every single game and Grossman has been the team's best hitter for a month.

 

Sano is not back. Sano has not DH'd this year. The GM has said he will play 3rd. And you did not HAVE to release Arcia. I think that's the point you are missing.  Freaking Buddy Boshers was kept instead of Arcia

[bluechipper]

 

Even though he has played in all three games since he came off the DL

Well he only started 2 of the 3. I highly doubt he'll continue seeing that much playing time.

[Bob Sacamento]

 

I agree, what happened last year is a head scratcher.  There may be something behind the scenes, but didn't the kid earn some rope with the effort he clearly made to change his body and put in the work?

 

I'd have liked, in a lost season like this, to see what he could do for a full season.  Then make a decision.

The hip (hip flexor) was worse last year than what was led on, he said it hurt everytime he swung the bat. I'll be surprised if he doesn't get claimed by one of the cellar dwellers (Atlanta, Philly, Brewers, etc) He'll get another shot with another organization who doesn't have a glut of OFs and that can give a LH power bat a full season tryout.  You'd think with the Twins sucking as bad as they are they'd give all the kids as many shots as possible but instead seem content with trying out other teams' castoffs.  Best thing for Arcia is a change of scenery at this point.

[alarp33]

 

Well he only started 2 of the 3. I highly doubt he'll continue seeing that much playing time.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's started all but 4 games this season (when he hasn't been on the DL.  The 1st 2 games of the year, May 8th vs CHW, and Friday vs the NYY.  

 

He was worth -2.2 WAR last season

[bluechipper]

 

Sano is not back. Sano has not DH'd this year. The GM has said he will play 3rd. And you did not HAVE to release Arcia. I think that's the point you are missing.  Freaking Buddy Boshers was kept instead of Arcia

So Trevor Plouffe is going to be benched immediately when Sano comes back? Or is he going to be traded? I'm not very optimistic that either of those will happen anytime soon.

[bluechipper]

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's started all but 4 games this season (when he hasn't been on the DL.  The 1st 2 games of the year, May 8th vs CHW, and Friday vs the NYY.  

 

He was worth -2.2 WAR last season

Kepler, Buxton, and Grossman should be playing basically every day now.

[LaBombo]

 

He was worth -2.2 WAR last season

 

Don't sell Danny short, no pun intended. He compiled that team-worst WAR in less than half a season's worth of at bats! Gotta respect that kind of efficiency.

Edited June 20, 2016 by LaBombo

[jimmer]

 

Kepler, Buxton, and Grossman should be playing basically every day now.

we'll see....

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Maybe this has been corrected already too, but Kepler is not out of options next year -- he is eligible for a fourth option year.  The earliest he will be out of options will be spring 2018.

 

Speaking of Kepler, his OPS is now sitting around .750 after that nice night yesterday.  If I were to put money on someone turning the corner, it might be Max. 

[alarp33]

 

Kepler, Buxton, and Grossman should be playing basically every day now.

 

I'm not disagreeing with that. But what should happen and what does happen have rarely lined up this year. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by alarp33

[jimmer]

 

Speaking of Kepler, his OPS is now sitting around .750 after that nice night yesterday.  If I were to put money on someone turning the corner, it might be Max. 

So I was coming out of my slumber yesterday in time to see Kepler stroke a ball to the OF.  The stroke, along with him running, I thought they were showing a Morneau flashback.

[LaBombo]

 

 

Kepler, Buxton, and Grossman should be playing basically every day now.

Agreed.  The Red Wings are in first place in the IL North and don't need a Buxton dragging them down. 

 

And the more Grossman plays the more likely we'll know the exact second that his Faustian bargain expires.

[jimmer]

 

Speaking of Kepler, his OPS is now sitting around .750 after that nice night yesterday.  If I were to put money on someone turning the corner, it might be Max. 

I'm a fan of Kepler, think he'll be a good MLB player, but before last night's game his OPS was about 100 points lower than how it finished last night.  With such SSS it's hard to really do anything other than say he had a good game and hope he keeps it up.

[alarp33]

 

Don't sell Danny short, no pun intended. He compiled that team-worst WAR in less than half a season's worth of at bats! Gotta respect that kind of efficiency.

 

Tight race this year, with Rosario sitting at -0.8 bWAR, but down in AAA unable to add to that total.  I have faith with Molitor hitting DanSan (-0.6) 2nd many nights he'll catch him in no time.  

[wsnydes]

 

Well he only started 2 of the 3. I highly doubt he'll continue seeing that much playing time.

I viewd his PT as a means to rest the OF'ers that haven't had a day off for a while.  Even so, that's too much.  I'm also probably being overly optimistic.

Edited June 20, 2016 by wsnydes

[mazeville]

 

Well he only started 2 of the 3. I highly doubt he'll continue seeing that much playing time.

 

Have you watched any Twins games this year? Danny Santana is going to get a lot of playing time.

 

And I don't even have much of a problem with that. He's young. He had an .800-plus OPS his rookie year. Give him a shot to figure it out. 

 

I do not think this is an either-or, Santana-Arcia thing. I think there's room on the roster for both. 

 

 

[jimmer]

 

Have you watched any Twins games this year? Danny Santana is going to get a lot of playing time.

 

 

I do not think this is an either-or, Santana-Arcia thing. I think there's room on the roster for both. 

I agree a ton with this.

[alarp33]

 

Have you watched any Twins games this year? Danny Santana is going to get a lot of playing time.

 

And I don't even have much of a problem with that. He's young. He had an .800-plus OPS his rookie year. Give him a shot to figure it out. 

 

I do not think this is an either-or, Santana-Arcia thing. I think there's room on the roster for both. 

 

Danny Santana has been the worst player in baseball since the start of 2015 by WAR, and is hitting .226/.254/.305 in that time frame.  

[bluechipper]

 

Have you watched any Twins games this year? Danny Santana is going to get a lot of playing time.

 

And I don't even have much of a problem with that. He's young. He had an .800-plus OPS his rookie year. Give him a shot to figure it out. 

 

I do not think this is an either-or, Santana-Arcia thing. I think there's room on the roster for both. 

Playing time over who? If Buxton hits even a little bit, he's playing. Kepler is playing and Grossman is playing.

[mazeville]

 

So Trevor Plouffe is going to be benched immediately when Sano comes back? Or is he going to be traded? I'm not very optimistic that either of those will happen anytime soon.

 

Neither am I, to be perfectly honest. 

 

He is rapidly devolving into a non-tender candidate in the offseason -- which is really, really frustrating, given that many people thought the Twins should have traded him last offseason.

[mazeville]

 

Playing time over who? If Buxton hits even a little bit, he's playing. Kepler is playing and Grossman is playing.

 

Buxton, probably. Because unless Buxton starts hitting again, he's the one who gets sent down when Sano comes back. And then you're going to see a whole hell of a lot of Danny Santana. But Molitor will play Danny a lot. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Oswaldo Arcia batted .231/.300/.452 and compiled a defense-hobbled 0.9 WAR in 410 PA's. He was the best power hitter on that team. It was enough to earn him exactly 65 more plate appearances in 2015.

 

I can think of half a dozen Twins who did less than Arcia did in 2014 yet somehow 'earned' far more of an opportunity to play through their struggles.

 

I think this is a valid complaint.  Even before Arcia got injured in 2015, he wasn't getting as much playing time as his record and numbers warranted.  He only started 18 of 25 games, and was trending down, getting benched in 4 of his 9 games up here.

 

And it wasn't as if Arcia was being forced out in a crowded outfield -- his 7 games sitting at that point were to Escobar 4 times, Nunez twice, and Robinson once.  And this was with Jordan Schafer starting in CF.  Arcia also got zero starts at DH up to that point, while Escobar got one and Nunez 3, so getting cut for Danny Santana now isn't the first time he's been replaced by utility players.

 

And Arcia wasn't struggling that much at that point -- the power was a bit light, but his K% was the lowest it had ever been.

 

Then, flash forward to his rehab stint, where he started 0-for-11 and was then optioned.  Despite that rough start, he was up to an .830 AAA OPS at the all-star break, but by that point, Rosario, Hicks, and Buxton had entered or re-entered our outfield picture, plus Sano at DH, and he was mostly crowded out.  Although I will note that had we activated Arcia from his rehab assignment just to be a bench bat last year, in place of Shane Robinson, we'd still have a minor league option on Arcia for 2016, albeit in his first year of "super two" arbitration eligibility.