Article: Twins Designate Oswaldo Arcia

[alarp33]

 

I wasn't necessarily trying to say it was. Beresford or the 12 guys on waivers aren't on the 40 man, so that complicates things further (unless they did the smart thing and not claimed Ramirez).  If that happens, then you have two guys that can do the same thing on the 40 man.  That doesn't make sense either.

 

Fact of the matter is that the Park signing and a long list of other roster mismanagement led to this point.  It always goes back to the pieces of this roster puzzle not fitting.  I for one don't mind that they chose to move on from him.  I do mind how they got here.  

 

I'm not understanding your argument. DFA'ing Danny Santana instead of Arcia would've opened a 40 man spot for Bereford or a random waiver utility guy

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm beginning to understand what it felt like to be a Pirates or Royals fan through the 2000s.

[wsnydes]

 

I'm not understanding your argument. DFA'ing Danny Santana instead of Arcia would've opened a 40 man spot for Bereford or a random waiver utility guy

Ah, it was me who didn't understand your argument.  That makes more sense.  Sorry for the confusion.

 

I'm not sure Beresford has any greater future with this team than Santana, but I can at least buy the argument that he deserves more of an opportunity in the Show.  At this point, that is what this team should be doing.  They need to figure out who is in the long term plans.  Arcia obviously wasn't.  I'm not overly bent out of shape about that, but I do think how this went down reeks of mismanagement as well.

[wsnydes]

 

I'm beginning to understand what it felt like to be a Pirates or Royals fan through the 2000s.

When you're right, you're right.

[alarp33]

 

Ah, it was me who didn't understand your argument.  That makes more sense.  Sorry for the confusion.

 

I'm not sure Beresford has any greater future with this team than Santana, but I can at least buy the argument that he deserves more of an opportunity in the Show.  At this point, that is what this team should be doing.  They need to figure out who is in the long term plans.  Arcia obviously wasn't.  I'm not overly bent out of shape about that, but I do think how this went down reeks of mismanagement as well.

 

It was another poster who brought up Beresford.  I think his point was... there's no need to keep Danny Santana around because there are plenty of players always available capable of his production.  Beresford was just one example (not saying the team needs him now, just that he's a guy you could use in a pinch)

[Mike Sixel]

That took longer than I thought it would. 

 

Not a Santana fan at all. He isn't good at one thing, imo.

 

Me? I would have sent Park or Kepler down, and found a way for Arcia to play every day for a month. I don't think he'll be a Twin in 10 days. I do think he'll hit for someone.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

That being said, this timing makes little sense.  They knew Santana was coming back in a matter of days when they signed Neil Ramirez.  They simply could have not signed a guy that was waived by two teams in three weeks and let Chargois get another inning or two.  Then when Santana was ready to come back, they send Chargois down.  I wouldn't be that bothered with carrying 12 pitchers, Molitor just has to use them more efficiently.  But the best answer was to let Santana sit in Rochester for a bit while you worked out a trade for one of the big league position players.  Development to win more games later on should be the focus, not necessarily winning games now.

I'd be interested to know if TR even tried to trade him first.

Good point on the pitching staff.  I attended a game last week where Molitor used 3 consecutive relievers to face 1 batter each, throwing a total of 6 pitches:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN201606080.shtml

 

Having a 13 man pitching staff in a lost season is far from a necessity (same for multiple bench players whose primary positive attribute is positional flexibility).  God forbid we fall below .300 winning percentage again because we can't use multiple relievers for one batter each, or someone has to play out of position for a few innings...

[Dman]

 

Arcia only started in 12 of the Twins 24 games in April.

In his first 3 games, Arcia went 0-9, so he didn't start out hot, but for the month, he had an OPS of .724 in 12 starts. which was 5th best on the team.

Arcia started 11 of 28 Twins games in May.

 

It's pretty hard to argue that Arcia got any sort of extended look. And even with irregular play, his offensive output was much better than many established regulars and some metrics indicate that he had made strides in improving his plate approach.

 

People keep bringing up Arcia's struggles vs. LHPs. In point of fact, Arcia has done extremely well against lefties relative to his career numbers against southpaws- in a small sample size, he actually significantly outperformed his 2016 numbers vs. RHPs .  .702 OPS 115 OPS+

 

As I said above, It's hard to maintain that Arcia got a fair shot as a starter and blew it. It was extremely strange roster construction on Terry Ryan's part to start the season with Arcia as a 4th or platoon OFer, as well as the # 4/5 option on the DH depth chart (Arcia DH'd one game this season). There was no way that he should have been in LF in the first place- where he had little experience, what with RF meanwhile manned by a guy who had NO OF experience- and centered by Buxton, who most of us agreed in the offseason was not going to be major league ready on April 1.

 

As usual, I agree with most everything you say here.  It is sad that we are giving him away for nothing especially given his age and potential. And yet on the other hand I don't see him as a good fit on this team.  He doesn't have a great eye at the plate. He doesn't field any position well.  Given his splits he looks like a platoon player.  So basically he could be a DH with no real position flexibility.  I just think the Twins can do better than that.  If they had a crappy farm system I would say this is a huge mistake but they have Vargas, Walker and Palka in the wings as well and if Grossman is the find he appears to be I think they all are as good if not better options than Arcia at least at this point.  

 

While I am sad to see him go and have success elsewhere we can't keep everybody.  It is a waste that they did not develop him properly and will get nothing back. I cannot defend that, but at the same time I think it is time to move on.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It's hard to get too worked up about this right now, like the Perkins surgery, it's been a long time coming.

 

Not a lot of strong parallels to the Ortiz situation, except it does seem to be another example of the Twins having trouble developing or relating to young Latin American players (and young sluggers in general).  And we cut both to add a second utility player to our bench.  Ortiz was obviously a better performer at the time we cut him, I believe Ortiz had a minor league option left, and his second year arb salary made it more likely we could pass him through waivers if we wanted him off the roster but still in the org for depth.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

And yet on the other hand I don't see him as a good fit on this team.  He doesn't have a great eye at the plate.

Doesn't have a great eye at the plate?  Sounds like he is a perfect fit on this team, unfortunately.

[wsnydes]

 

Good point on the pitching staff.  I attended a game last week where Molitor used 3 consecutive relievers to face 1 batter each, throwing a total of 6 pitches:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN201606080.shtml

 

Having a 13 man pitching staff in a lost season is far from a necessity (same for multiple bench players whose primary positive attribute is positional flexibility).  God forbid we fall below .300 winning percentage again because we can't use multiple relievers for one batter each, or someone has to play out of position for a few innings...

I was at that game as well.  All I could do was shake my head, especially because of the scenario that preceded it.  The 5th and 6th innings were just managerial folly.  It's become comical with how inefficiently he uses the bullpen.  It's no wonder these guys wear down.

[Twinfan & Dad]

Just because I am on the anti Front Office bandwagon I am hoping for the sequel David Ortiz II and that it cements TR legacy. Sorry but this year has just pissed me off with a poorly constructed roster to start the year and head scratching, mind numbing, WTF desperate moves.TR assembled the roster to start the year and has shown us by the recent moves he has no plan but is DESPERATE. Tick tock tick tock time is running out TR and hope retirement and becoming a viewer of this site suits you better than pretending to be a Bottom ranked baseball executive.

[Thrylos]

 

 

What other options did GM Terry Ryan have in this case?

 

Let me count them:

 

A1. Send a reliever down

a. Demote Kepler whose OPS and OPS+ is less than Arcia's

b. Ditto Buxton

c. Trade Plouffe

d. Trade Dozier

e. Trade Abad

f. Trade another reliever

 

and a few more.

 

Pretty horrible move from the guy who got rid of another power left hander.

 

Ryan has to go.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Thrylos

[tobi0040]

Good point on the pitching staff. I attended a game last week where Molitor used 3 consecutive relievers to face 1 batter each, throwing a total of 6 pitches:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN201606080.shtml

 

Having a 13 man pitching staff in a lost season is far from a necessity (same for multiple bench players whose primary positive attribute is positional flexibility). God forbid we fall below .300 winning percentage again because we can't use multiple relievers for one batter each, or someone has to play out of position for a few innings...

Exactly this. We would need a CF or SS to get hurt mid game and their replacement to also get hurt to run into an issue of a guy out of position. The next day you have Mastro or Beresford here.

 

That is literally the last scenario a team that is losing 70 percent of their games should be remotely concerned with. Let alone DFA-ING guys

[alarp33]

 

Let me count them:

 

A1. Send a reliever down

a. Demote Kepler whose OPS and OPS+ is less than Arcia's

b. Ditto Buxton

c. Trade Plouffe

d. Trade Dozier

 

 

and a few more.

 

Pretty horrible move from the guy who got rid of another power left hander.

 

Ryan has to go.

You missed option Park who is 5 years older than Arcia

Edited June 17, 2016 by alarp33

[Thrylos]

 

You missed option Park

 

That's included in the "few more".  The team is going nowhere, Park needs to adjust to MLB pitching so the team is better with him in the majors right now.

[nicksaviking]

Pretty disappointing, for all his warts, I think his cock-sure attitude is something this club needs actually. Arcia is the kind of youthful player with potential that if another team DFA'd him, we'd all be clamoring for the Twins to pick him up.

 

Ryan better think long and hard about his roster moves coming up, because if Buxton, Park or Kepler get optioned any time the rest of the year, he's going to have a lot of explaining to do.

 

Good luck to Arcia, I hope he goes somewhere that platoons him correctly and he goes on a tear. Perhaps that will spur changes for the Twins.

 

Also, I'd guess this means that Ryan isn't currently shopping Plouffe, Dozier or Nunez. Also disappointing.

[tobi0040]

Let me count them:

 

A1. Send a reliever down

a. Demote Kepler whose OPS and OPS+ is less than Arcia's

b. Ditto Buxton

c. Trade Plouffe

d. Trade Dozier

e. Trade Abad

f. Trade another reliever

 

and a few more.

 

Pretty horrible move from the guy who got rid of another power left hander.

 

Ryan has to go.

F. Shorten the bench and really live on the edge with just one utility OF and INF

[alarp33]

 

That's included in the "few more".  The team is going nowhere, Park needs to adjust to MLB pitching so the team is better with him in the majors right now.

 

I'm fine with Park being in the Majors, the team is awful so why not.  But sending him to AAA for a few weeks > Letting go of Arcia.  

[wsnydes]

 

Let me count them:

 

A1. Send a reliever down

a. Demote Kepler whose OPS and OPS+ is less than Arcia's

b. Ditto Buxton

c. Trade Plouffe

d. Trade Dozier

e. Trade Abad

f. Trade another reliever

 

and a few more.

 

Pretty horrible move from the guy who got rid of another power left hander.

 

Ryan has to go.

add to the list:

 

g) not sign a guy who was previously waived by two teams in 3 weeks.

[Mike Sixel]

This was inevitable, when they kept Plouffe and moved Sano after signing a DH......

 

Now, I wouldn't do it to keep Santana around, but for some reason they are in love with him.

[HitInAPinch]

 

"If Sano's glove don't fit..."


You set that one up for me, didn't you

Hanging in the weeds for that response, weren't ya   

 

Well played!

[troyhobbs]

Pretty sure this move is also a strong indication that they plan on running Sano back in RF when he returns. Apparently Plouffe ain't going nowhere and look for a Robbie Grossman extension coming soon, right before he reverts back to the real Robbie Grossman.....

[Vanimal46]

I don't really understand the irrational love for D Santana in this organization. As others have mentioned, defensive flexibility and speed, D Santana's only positive traits, are found every day on the waiver wire...

 

Hated Arcia's bone headed plays in the OF, but still loved the potential. This team is not that talented where they can afford to give away someone with 20+ HR potential like this. His talents were utilized very poorly on the Twins. It may take another year or 2 a la Valencia, but some team is going to utilize Arcia the right way and reap the benefits.

[Steve Lein]

I don't hate that this happened (Oz hasn't earned anything from the Twins), but also am disappointed as it was set up by all the poor roster management before it. Not just this season, but in prior ones as well.

 

What a lot of people who are hating this move should be aware of, is Ozzie never earned a full-time spot on BAD teams. Is not an outfielder, huge flaws in his approach... I've always thought he's been way overvalued around here because he a hit a few dingers that one time.

 

I was saying trade Arcia three years ago (which pretty much everyone here disagreed with me on) when he was probably worth quite a bit. I said it at that time for the exact reason this DFA is happening now. There was never going to be a place for him in the Twins OF in the timeframe of when they were supposed to be turning it around (which is theoretically now, last year kind of screwed that up a little).

 

How bad is it going to get for the Twins the rest of this season? From what I've seen and stuff like this, there's no limit...

[Blake]

 

Arcia is a flawed player. He was terrible last year, but he absolutely can play at the major league level. I'm not sure how many organizations can just throw away 30+ HR power but I know the Twins aren't in a position to do that. Its frustrating that they'll give up talent and get nothing back. Its going to be even more maddening to watch him hit homers for another team. The most infuriating part though is the fact that a 20-46 team couldn't find a way to get Arcia consistent ABs before making a final decision on him. It blows my mind. Buxton and Kepler were both sent down this year, while Sano and Santana have been hurt. Grossman was signed less than a month ago, and yet Arcia couldn't sneak in some relatively consistent playing time? To top it off you have multiple position players with options (Park, Kepler) and a handful of scrub pitchers (Boshers, Ramirez) who nobody will lose sleep over if they're gone. I don't think Arcia is going to be Ortiz 2.0, but I do think he's a talented player who shouldn't be tossed out. 

Arcia is a victim of poor management of the 40 man roster. I think Arcia was further victimized by poor lineup management by Paul Morlitor.

 

I wish Arcia nothing but the best. 

 

Gad, could we be looking at Ortiz 2.0?

[TheLeviathan]

Let's count the number of guys currently on the 25 man roster that have less potential to help this team going forward than Arcia:

 

Mauer

Abad

Boshers

Dean

Jepsen

Kintzler

Nolasco

Ramirez

Centeno

Suzuki

Escobar

Dozier

Plouffe

 

Those are the "for sures" - you could add a "might be less useful" group that would include: Park, Santana, Nunez, Tonkin, Duffey, Gibson, and Santana.

 

So, just 20 out of 25 that are either for sure less valuable to a team in this position or arguably so.  

 

Yeah.  Do you think the Cubs would be mad if I hopped the ol' bandwagon?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

add to the list:

 

g) not sign a guy who was previously waived by two teams in 3 weeks.

Or, just put Ramirez back on waivers again.  The 7 worst teams in MLB passed on him just two weeks ago.  And as we know, the 8th worst team claimed him, only to waive him again about 10 days later.  Decent odds he might have cleared this time and could have been outrighted to AAA.  (And if he didn't, obviously our interest in him wasn't too great since we passed on him the first time around too.)

[Blake]

 

I don't really understand the irrational love for D Santana in this organization. As others have mentioned, defensive flexibility and speed, D Santana's only positive traits, are found every day on the waiver wire...

Hated Arcia's bone headed plays in the OF, but still loved the potential. This team is not that talented where they can afford to give away someone with 20+ HR potential like this. His talents were utilized very poorly on the Twins. It may take another year or 2 a la Valencia, but some team is going to utilize Arcia the right way and reap the benefits.

I don't get it either.

[twinssouth]

Read all the post, but still say it's the right decision to cut strings with Arcia. He is no Ortiz. Ortiz with Twins was batting 270's but hurt a lot. Letting him go at the time was and is the biggest fubar of all time. My son in law huge Red Sox fan constantly reminds me.