Article: Eddie Rosario Is Raking In Rochester

[Nick Nelson]

What to do with Eddie Rosario?

 

There's no easy answer to that question, but it's one that should be on the minds of Twins decision-makers as the 24-year-old outfielder torches Triple-A.Following his May 19th demotion, Rosario got off to a slow start at Rochester, with only two hits in 21 at-bats over his first five games. He was frustrated and swinging out of his shoes.

 

Then, he flipped the switch. Since that opening cold stretch, he has collected multiple hits in 10 of 17 games, batting .400 with a 1.097 OPS in the process. Rosario had only one multi-hit game in his six weeks with the Twins.

 

Clearly, he has turned a corner. He's still a free swinger, as ever, but he has gotten back to making hard contact, and has even taken a couple of walks in his past few games, a sadly noteworthy feat.

 

The Twins were utterly exasperated with Rosario by the time they shipped him to the minors a month ago, and with good reason. But there is no denying the young outfielder's talent, which is flashing again right now as it did during his time with the Twins last year.

 

We all know his aggressiveness can be a hindrance, but when Rosario is on his game – slashing tough pitches all over the field, laying off the truly unhittable stuff, playing dynamic defense – he is a player. While it may be tempting to pass off his hot streak in the International League as a pure reflection of the inferior pitching, he has shown before that he can hit in the majors, unlike fellow Triple-A bashers Byron Buxton and Max Kepler.

 

Rosario's 2015 season in Minnesota can't be passed off as a total fluke. You don't lead the league in triples while playing 120 games by accident. And before you categorize him with fellow sophomore slumpers Danny Santana and Kennys Vargas, understand that Rosario was always in another prospect class. When an 18-year-old Miguel Sano blasted hit 20 home runs in his first year at Elizabethton, he didn't lead the league. Rosario did, with 21.

 

This isn't to say that Rosario is not a very flawed player – he is. I do get the sense (from the responses to this tweet, for instance) that some fans are so down on him they have forgotten about his considerable strengths.

 

The Twins surely have not, and must recognize that there's not much value in letting him pummel minor-league pitching. Their hands are tied, though.

 

Buxton and Kepler have yet to find a sustained groove, but both deserve more time. Sano has been hitting off a tee and jogging, and should be back within a couple of weeks. Robbie Grossman is tough to take out of the lineup right now and Oswaldo Arcia needs at-bats unless the club is ready to give up on him.

 

There's a pecking order for playing time in the Twins outfield and Rosario pushed himself pretty far down it over the first month and a half. He'll get another crack, but when? And at whose expense?

 

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[mlhouse]

YOu have to bring Rosario up.  Play an outfield of Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, and Gassman.  Play them, play them, and play them.   I know the Twins are just itching to have a 29 year old waiver wire guy like Clete Thomas become available so they have an excuse to send Kepler and/or Buxton down to the minors.  That is just the way they do it. 

 

I would rather lose the games now and find out if these guys can play.  

 

I was looking at the entire positional players in the minor leagues and it really is in shambles.  To be fair, most of the talent is now up and struggling at the major league level.  But, the fact is, behind it the cupboard is almost completely bare.

 

Position by position we have little left in the system.  

 

Catcher -  Only two marginal prosects  Garver (25) and Turner (24) both at AA.  

First Base   -  Kenys Vargas (25) a minor failed prospect  at AAA

Second Base  Nick Gordon (20)  Solid prospect at A+

SS    -  Engeleb Vielma  21 AA

3B   Polanco (22)  AAA

OF   Rosario (24)  AAA, Walker (24) AAA, Santana (25) AAA, Harrison 23 (AA) Palka (24) AA, Wade (22) A-

 

That is it for the entire organization.  The remaining players are mostly filler, lots of other organizations castoffs, and low draft picks that dont have much future. 

 

They have really neglected the positional aspects in the draft and put too much empahsis on pitching that has simply not panned out either (mainly because the idea of drafting college relief pitchers and turn them into starting pitchers was probably not the smartest to start with).

[Vanimal46]

It's good that Rosario is finding his bat again. However, I'm not sold calling him up yet.

 

Are we giving up all hope of him ever learning how to work a count and earn a walk? We're still talking about a guy who has 2 walks in 91 ABs since the demotion. If he rides this hot streak to the majors, great! If he cools off against MLB pitching, it's still the same free swinging Eddie we saw in April.

[Rosterman]

 

YOu have to bring Rosario up.  Play an outfield of Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, and Gassman.  Play them, play them, and play them.   I know the Twins are just itching to have a 29 year old waiver wire guy like Clete Thomas become available so they have an excuse to send Kepler and/or Buxton down to the minors.  That is just the way they do it. 

 

I would rather lose the games now and find out if these guys can play.  

 

I was looking at the entire positional players in the minor leagues and it really is in shambles.  To be fair, most of the talent is now up and struggling at the major league level.  But, the fact is, behind it the cupboard is almost completely bare.

 

Position by position we have little left in the system.  

 

Catcher -  Only two marginal prosects  Garver (25) and Turner (24) both at AA.  

First Base   -  Kenys Vargas (25) a minor failed prospect  at AAA

Second Base  Nick Gordon (20)  Solid prospect at A+

SS    -  Engeleb Vielma  21 AA

3B   Polanco (22)  AAA

OF   Rosario (24)  AAA, Walker (24) AAA, Santana (25) AAA, Harrison 23 (AA) Palka (24) AA, Wade (22) A-

 

That is it for the entire organization.  The remaining players are mostly filler, lots of other organizations castoffs, and low draft picks that dont have much future. 

 

They have really neglected the positional aspects in the draft and put too much empahsis on pitching that has simply not panned out either (mainly because the idea of drafting college relief pitchers and turn them into starting pitchers was probably not the smartest to start with).

Okay.....Twins have Park and possibly Kepler in the long-run at first. Or maybe it will be the future home of Sano in 3-4 years.

 

Polanco is more of a second baseman. Decision time on Dozier is soon.

 

The Twins have half-a-dozen guys for shortstop, but none will start in 2017. 2018 MIGHT see Vielma, or maybe Regilatto or Walker, with Gordon in 2018.

3B future could be Cabbage or Blankenhorn, but both are 3+ years away.

 

Right now, an outfield of Grossman, Santana and Rosario with Arcia as the fourth. That is assuming that Sano can play somewhere other than the outfield when he returns. Build up the value of Rosario and Santana and maybe Arcia. Kepler and Buxton are the future and should be there fulltime by August end. Walker in the wings, as well as Palka at this point. Santana can always nudge out as a ultility guy.

 

It is such a tough call with the team. Do you play guys NOT in plans to get their worth a tad higher, or just write them off. Like, flip Park to the minors for a month and give Vargas some at bat? Bring back Milone and let Dean start at AAA. How much do you invest in chips that you really aren't investing in except to spend for something, which may be less than...nothing.

 

[DocBauer]

I've never given up on him despite the poor start to this year. He is not Buxton talented, but he remains a tremendouslyrics talented young player. The walks are definately an issue. He will always be a free swinger probably. And that's OK when you realize what he is capable at the plate, on the bases and in the field. And we saw a glimpse of that last year after his sudden promotion. I've always believed that once he actually settles in at a level, like the ML, 20 HR might be a norm. But even high teens with 30+ doubles, triples, SB, etc, he could be effective and dangerous as a 7 hitter.

 

What I find frustrating though, is that when you look at his milb career previously, I believe he never had an OB% that wasn't at least 43 points higher than his BA. So while he was a free swinger, and did SO quite a bit, his walk rate wasn't this poor. I keep thinking he's trying to hard to hit and mash his way back the Twins.

 

I am pleasantly surprised and impressed by Grossman. But I'd love to see him play a lot, but as a 4th OF with a Twins OF of Rosario, Buxton and Kepler.

 

Right now though, I'm still thinking I'd keep Rosario down at Rochester for a while longer and just try to get him to relax, and beat it in to his head that we know how talented he is, and what he is capable of, but even a little more patience will take him further and make him that much better of a ballplayer.

[drivlikejehu]

Rosario's plate discipline flaw is probably a fatal one for his MLB future, unfortunately. Against big league pitching, he is just too vulnerable. This is the first time he's even hit in the high minors. It's frustrating because his other tools are so good, but it is what it is.

[Jham]

 

YOu have to bring Rosario up.  Play an outfield of Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, and Gassman.  Play them, play them, and play them.   I know the Twins are just itching to have a 29 year old waiver wire guy like Clete Thomas become available so they have an excuse to send Kepler and/or Buxton down to the minors.  That is just the way they do it. 

 

I would rather lose the games now and find out if these guys can play.  

 

I was looking at the entire positional players in the minor leagues and it really is in shambles.  To be fair, most of the talent is now up and struggling at the major league level.  But, the fact is, behind it the cupboard is almost completely bare.

 

Position by position we have little left in the system.  

 

Catcher -  Only two marginal prosects  Garver (25) and Turner (24) both at AA.  

First Base   -  Kenys Vargas (25) a minor failed prospect  at AAA

Second Base  Nick Gordon (20)  Solid prospect at A+

SS    -  Engeleb Vielma  21 AA

3B   Polanco (22)  AAA

OF   Rosario (24)  AAA, Walker (24) AAA, Santana (25) AAA, Harrison 23 (AA) Palka (24) AA, Wade (22) A-

 

That is it for the entire organization.  The remaining players are mostly filler, lots of other organizations castoffs, and low draft picks that dont have much future. 

 

They have really neglected the positional aspects in the draft and put too much empahsis on pitching that has simply not panned out either (mainly because the idea of drafting college relief pitchers and turn them into starting pitchers was probably not the smartest to start with).

But you forgot to add in Kepler MLB, Sano, MLB, Buxton, MLB, and even JR Murphy and Juan Cento have to be considered some sort of prospects given their position.  Zack Granite is tearing it up.  Add them in, and you're looking at a decent pool of players to move forward with.  No one home-grows a championship.  You develop a nucleus.  If we can't make a nucleus out of that talent, we've gotten really unlucky, our players have failed, or our development has failed.  Terry Ryan's rightfully taken a lot of heat for some of the issues with the MLB team, but we're not so short sighted to go from "this team has one of the best farm systems in the game" to "cupbord is running pretty empty" in a single year based on seemingly slow progress are we?  Especially when we're simultaneously making a case to be patient with the young players?  If we want to be patient with the talent, should we not also be patient with the guys coaching the talent and the one who assembled it?  By the way, I strongly disagree that as an organization, the only way or best way or even a good way to evaluate talent is just to throw kids in for a season and hope for the best.  The so called "see what we've got" argument is lost on me since a lot of other teams seem to be able to bring players up when they're actually ready.  I also don't think perpetual losing or going full on youth movement is a great way to develop players.  I think it puts too much pressure on each young player to be "the guy" rather than letting them relax and find their role.  I think it's human nature to want to see the guys we've followed for years in box scores play in person.  That's where MiLBTV comes in.  But the fact of the matter is we need a much better system of evaluating when players are ready and much better process for getting them ready.  Also, Tyler Jay, reliever turned starter, is probably the closest thing to an Ace the Twins have in their entire system.  Duffey has been by far our best young arm to come up.  The problem isn't the relievers we draft to be starters.  The problem is the relievers we draft to be releivers.

[tobi0040]

I don't think it is too tough to take Grossman out.

 

Hopefully though Rosario forcing his way back is enough to end the Sano in RF experiment, in the event Sano's injury want already enough

[Otto von Ballpark]

Has this same article been written before about Arcia? Parmelee? Those guys raked in Rochester too. Plouffe eventually did too. None of them have ever generated enough offense to hold down a corner OF spot in MLB.

[Taildragger8791]

 

YOu have to bring Rosario up.  Play an outfield of Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, and Gassman.  Play them, play them, and play them.   I know the Twins are just itching to have a 29 year old waiver wire guy like Clete Thomas become available so they have an excuse to send Kepler and/or Buxton down to the minors.  That is just the way they do it. 

 

I would rather lose the games now and find out if these guys can play.  

 

I was looking at the entire positional players in the minor leagues and it really is in shambles.  To be fair, most of the talent is now up and struggling at the major league level.  But, the fact is, behind it the cupboard is almost completely bare.

 

Position by position we have little left in the system.  

 

Catcher -  Only two marginal prosects  Garver (25) and Turner (24) both at AA.  

First Base   -  Kenys Vargas (25) a minor failed prospect  at AAA

Second Base  Nick Gordon (20)  Solid prospect at A+

SS    -  Engeleb Vielma  21 AA

3B   Polanco (22)  AAA

OF   Rosario (24)  AAA, Walker (24) AAA, Santana (25) AAA, Harrison 23 (AA) Palka (24) AA, Wade (22) A-

 

That is it for the entire organization.  The remaining players are mostly filler, lots of other organizations castoffs, and low draft picks that dont have much future. 

 

They have really neglected the positional aspects in the draft and put too much empahsis on pitching that has simply not panned out either (mainly because the idea of drafting college relief pitchers and turn them into starting pitchers was probably not the smartest to start with).

 

You're going to have to pick and choose which of the young players you want to give MLB time. You've argued to have everyone from Buxton to Kirilloff playing with the big club right now. This isn't beer league softball so someone has to sit. Buxton, Kepler, Rosario, Sano, Arcia, and I'll throw in Grossman (he's shown potential value and is actually performing) all need to play as much as possible. 

[Kwak]

 

You're going to have to pick and choose which of the young players you want to give MLB time. You've argued to have everyone from Buxton to Kirilloff playing with the big club right now. This isn't beer league softball so someone has to sit. Buxton, Kepler, Rosario, Sano, Arcia, and I'll throw in Grossman (he's shown potential value and is actually performing) all need to play as much as possible. 

Amen. Ryan has to decide who's "it"--and stick with them long enough to show whether a guy "belongs" or not. He's too concerned about "options". GMs get paid to make the tough decisions (correctly hopefully). Wavering back and forth (Chargois is the latest casualty) is counter-productive. 

[Shaitan]

He'll get his chance. Sano will be back. Kepler will go down. Somebody will probably get hurt (or traded) within a month of that.

 

I like the conservative, make them really earn it approach. It worked with Hunter and Span. It didn't work out so well with Liriano. There's no hard and fast rule as each prospect has their own personalities, but I think it helps with the psychological side of the game.

 

[TNTwinsFan]

Rosario needs to learn to take a walk. If he can get his walk percentage closer to say even 8%, then he's learning to be more patient and wait for his pitch some. His MLB walk rate this year is 2.6%. Even a moderate increase to 8% would be a huge indicator that he's seeing pitches, having (and executing) a plan, and getting more pitches he wants to hit. It seems like a lot of young hitters have this hyper-aggressive approach withing the Twins org, especially once they hit MLB. Maybe this is a little bit of a coaching issue, but, its seemingly systemic.

[TNTwinsFan]

Based on his Minor League stats, by getting his walk rate to 8%-9% his OBP is around .430 and his average jumps to .340. I'm sure those would normalize a bit over the couse of an entire season (as those adjusted stats would be based on just 89 AB). With his speed he can certainly be a 280/340/450 kind of guy; that along with his level of defense, that's a nice guy to have on your roster.

[Twodogs]

Tommy Milone is lighting up AAA also, so when do they have to call him up?

[diehardtwinsfan]

I haven't checked that close of late, but last I did, Rosario has yet to take a walk.  Has that changed?  I don't mind him being aggressive, but ML pitching isn't going to throw him many good ones if he cannot lay off the bad ones. 

[Pitz]

 

I haven't checked that close of late, but last I did, Rosario has yet to take a walk.  Has that changed?  I don't mind him being aggressive, but ML pitching isn't going to throw him many good ones if he cannot lay off the bad ones. 

He has three walks in his last four games, including one to lead off the ninth inning last night which led to his scoring the game winning run.

[jay]

2 weeks is nothing. 2+ months of raking AND an improved BB rate? Bring him back.

[dbminn]

Grossman has earned his starting role. He's 26 years old, has had more than 1500 PA at AAA and a .379 OBP throughout the minor league career. This year, he's successfully worked on increasing his power at both AAA and the majors. He should start unless he goes cold for a month.

 

Buxton was sent back to the minors to work on his timing and aggressiveness. He showed progress and was recalled to the Twins. His OPS has been a tick over .700 since his return. He's made enough progress to keep his spot, at least for the next month.

 

Kepler has shown flickers of what could be a bright future. He still looks outmanned at the plate and will be sent down to make room for Sano, at least until Plouffe is (hopefully) traded. I'm sure he'll be given specific tasks to work on at Rochester. He's 23 and has had less than 150 AAA PA. 

 

Rosario is 23 years old and has a ton of talent. He was sent back to AAA because MLB pitchers now realize he has no concept of the strike zone. Doesn't really matter what he hits at Rochester - he won't hit in the majors until he learns to lay off bad pitches. Give him time at AAA to figure it out. He's young and has a chance to be a big part of the future.

 

Out of the four OF, Grossman is the only one with experience. The other three are more gifted but none are fully developed. It's going to take time and work but I'm confident all three will be fine major leaguers. For now, they are still prospects.

[mikelink45]

The issue is the Twins player development.  Do we have the right coaches to lift the players to the MLB level?   Buxton and Kepler are close, but should be better.  Other teams bring  up 21 - 22 year olds (even a few teens) and they transition.  Why do our players from the top MiLB system fail to make the jump with style?  Rosario and Santana do great and then fall flat their second year (is this just sophmore slump or coaching?) Kepler and Buxton continue to struggle showing a flash at bat, but no consistency.  I hope Duffey does well today, but his last six games are not promising, Berrios and Chaguois have been handled poorly and had their confidence shaken, we keep picking up dregs instead of moving minor league relievers up.  Why does it take players to reach near their peak ages in the Twins system before they shine?  

[adorduan]

Until he shows he has learned to take a walk, he shouldn't be back up. It's as simple as that.

[jorgenswest]

Let's see where he is at 200 PAs. Once there look at strike out rate, walk rate and ISO as well as pitch level data. How often is he staying in the zone? What is his contact rate? Chase rate? Ignore slash stats. They are useful in full season samples.

[TheLeviathan]

 

2 weeks is nothing. 2+ months of raking AND an improved BB rate? Bring him back.

 

This.  He's there to be working on a deficiency, his batting average isn't what I'm worried about.  

 

Do what's right for him and work with him on taking walks and improving his plate discipline.  Those stats will bear out over a larger sample.

[dbminn]

 

Why does it take players to reach near their peak ages in the Twins system before they shine?  

 

It is very rare that players hit well before 24 years old. Machado and Bogaerts stuck because of their gloves. It took them at least 1000 PA at high minors and MLB to start hitting. Harper, Trout and now Lindor and Betts are the exceptions. That's four out of out of 400 MLB position players.

 

Kepler, Sano and Buxton have all missed more than a year of MiLB experience due to injuries. Sano has been fine, Buxton is taking the route of Machado and Bogaerts and Kepler needs time. Nothing unusual.

[mazeville]

This team needs to make a lot of changes. 

 

My guess is that this team will send down Kepler once Santana is eligible to come off the DL. I think that would be a mistake. But I think most of what this front office does is a mistake.

 

I would release Santana or try trading him shortly after putting him back in. He's not a good enough defender to warrant his weak bat.

 

I would trade Plouffe and put Sano there once he gets off the DL. You could trade Plouffe now, in fact, and use Santana as a super utility until Sano gets off the DL. 

 

I would strongly consider trading Dozier so I could open up a spot for Jorge Polanco, who has demonstrated an ability to hit at the major league level. Maybe Dozier's recent improvement at the plate will generate some interest. Maybe monkeys might fly out of my butt.

 

Once you get rid of Santana, bring back Rosario and rotate your four outfielders - Buxton, Kepler, Rosario and Grossman -- with Arcia playing every so often but mostly spelling Park at DH while Kepler gets a time or two at first base.

 

Also, release Kurt Suzuki and call up John Ryan Murphy. It's time to focus on the future.

 

 

[Vanimal46]

I said this in a minor league thread as a joke at the time. Now I'm kind of serious about it. I wouldn't call up Rosario until he hits double digits for walks. If it takes 400 ABs in AAA to do that, so be it.

[Thrylos]

 

What to do with Eddie Rosario?

 

 

Based on a lot of MLB vs AAA records for pretty much every young hitter who made the trip, and the shape of the team's hitting, as a whole, the better question to ask is 'what to do with Tom Brunansky'.

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

I said this in a minor league thread as a joke at the time. Now I'm kind of serious about it. I wouldn't call up Rosario until he hits double digits for walks. If it takes 400 ABs in AAA to do that, so be it.

 

This. There is no hurry to get him up here, I don't think he's out of options (Polanco, Arcia)....why the rush on this guy? There are guys to rush, there are guys to work on. 

 

I'd rather they rotate the 4 guys that are up here, and see what Arcia can or cannot do. If anyone should be up, it is Polanco. But, once again, they appear to have a guy nearly out of options that they have very little MLB information on. Hard to believe.

[bird]

 

It is very rare that players hit well before 24 years old. Machado and Bogaerts stuck because of their gloves. It took them at least 1000 PA at high minors and MLB to start hitting. Harper, Trout and now Lindor and Betts are the exceptions. That's four out of out of 400 MLB position players.

 

Kepler, Sano and Buxton have all missed more than a year of MiLB experience due to injuries. Sano has been fine, Buxton is taking the route of Machado and Bogaerts and Kepler needs time. Nothing unusual.

 

It's important to note that all of those guys were among the top 5 prospects in all of baseball. If we did an honest comparison across the league, we're just not going to see any teams regularly bringing up a bunch of less-heralded guys at age 21-22, and when they do,  they tend to "transition" similarly, meaning they struggle for awhile. Pick a few random teams and check out the histories of their first and second year players, including those back in AAA. This is a league-wide thing.

[troyhobbs]

Max Kepler is arguably now the Twins' hottest prospect and Rosario's minor league numbers are better than Kepler's so no reason to give up on the kid this early. I believe he's always been a bit streaky throughout his career so I'd give him another shot real soon.