Have to think the Twins could command significantly more for Span, given that he's younger, having a better year and under contract for multiple seasons.

Have to think the Twins could command significantly more for Span, given that he's younger, having a better year and under contract for multiple seasons.

Agree. But I'm just not seeing anyone giving up high-ceiling young pitching for anyone. Have I missed something? Looks like teams are not letting go of that kind of guy.

The Twins honestly may have gotten just as good of a package for Liriano.

Looking at what the Dodgers gave up for Victorino (from Tim Dierkes MLBTR), let me ask this... if this is the going rate for a CF and is comparable to what TR is getting offered for Span, do you take it? (Personally... I don't think so):

The Twins should be able to get more for Span, but Martin isn't chopped liver so I wouldn't complain.

I wonder if the fact that Stubbs has been killing the ball since June change the Reds thinking of how much they'll give up?

The Twins should be able to get more for Span, but Martin isn't chopped liver so I wouldn't complain.

Martin has been a huge bust ever since getting drafted and still walks way to many people. He isn't anything special at this point, sure he has some upside but it is very unlikely that he will reach it. He was the 17th rated prospect in the org for a reason.

Victorino is a rental. Span is under a good team friendly contract for a while. He has to be more valuable and return at least a B+ prospect plus.

Have to think the Twins could command significantly more for Span, given that he's younger, having a better year and under contract for multiple seasons.

This is probably right, but it all seems to come down to what another organization has on offer. Span SHOULD get more, but if they trade him just to trade him, he probably WON'T get more. Waiting for real value is the way to go here, regardless of whether that's at 3:00 PM or in the winter meetings.

Martin has been a huge bust ever since getting drafted and still walks way to many people. He isn't anything special at this point, sure he has some upside but it is very unlikely that he will reach it. He was the 17th rated prospect in the org for a reason.

A huge bust, he's lowered his walk rate and still maintained a solid K-rate at AA. He's still got some work, but I wouldn't call him a bust by anymeans and is a damn solid pickup for 2 months of the dirty Hawaiian.

This is probably right, but it all seems to come down to what another organization has on offer. Span SHOULD get more, but if they trade him just to trade him, he probably WON'T get more. Waiting for real value is the way to go here, regardless of whether that's at 3:00 PM or in the winter meetings.

I guess this was my point (made much better than I managed to). I'm not seeing teams willing to give up top pitching prospects in any deals so far, so I'm not sure why we should think someone will for Span today. If that's the case, there's no reason not to wait until the offseason to see what the market is then.

Giants acquire Hunter Pence. When the details come out for this trade, this should give a better idea of what we should be looking for with a Span trade.

 

TR, you get the details and make some calls. You have 3.5 hours to get a great deal in place and have it approved by the commissioner. But only pull the trigger if it is a great deal.

 

Edit: I hope TR is actually on the phones trying to make some deals and not reading my posts on this site right now.

I guess this was my point (made much better than I managed to). I'm not seeing teams willing to give up top pitching prospects in any deals so far, so I'm not sure why we should think someone will for Span today. If that's the case, there's no reason not to wait until the offseason to see what the market is then.

I disagree with this.

 

Because there are more teams in contention with the extra wild card, Span's value is higher now than it will be in the offseason.

 

If you want to wait to build up some more value, you wait until the 2013 trade deadline.

I disagree with this.

 

Because there are more teams in contention with the extra wild card, Span's value is higher now than it will be in the offseason.

 

If you want to wait to build up some more value, you wait until the 2013 trade deadline.

I don't think any team who's just in contention for a one-game WC play-in game will give away top pitching talent. Only those teams contending for Division titles will even consider it.

If a team is willing to trade a starting pitcher straight up for a position player, best look closely at the pitcher or the player. (There's a reason why Tampa was willing to trade Delmon for Garza)

 

Anyway, Span is very good at his position and is on track to play how many games this year? Versus how many games a starting pitcher will pitch in a year?

 

Starting position players should never be traded straight up for a starting pitcher. An even worse trade is Span straight up for a minor league pitcher. Doesn't matter how highly rated the pitcher is, still not an established starter, unlike Span.

I don't think any team who's just in contention for a one-game WC play-in game will give away top pitching talent. Only those teams contending for Division titles will even consider it.

You may have a point, but if that's the case, do you think any team will give away top pitching talent in the offseason if the Twins look to trade Span then?

Giants acquire Hunter Pence. When the details come out for this trade, this should give a better idea of what we should be looking for with a Span trade.

Pence's value will have nothing to do with Span.

 

Philly should be happy as hell to get rid of him so they don't have to pay him 15 million next season.

I wonder if the fact that Stubbs has been killing the ball since June change the Reds thinking of how much they'll give up?

Yeah, I was wondering if the Reds recent hot streak (10 straight wins or so) would make them content. That could be a big problem for them b/c they aren't that good and do need to upgrade or they'll get bounced in the playoffs again. And Hamilton makes it hard for them to take on Span (I think). Not that they'd have to trade him but rather that if he doesn't stick at short, they'll have to move him to CF. So they'd rather rent than own a CFer.

Pence's value will have nothing to do with Span.

 

Philly should be happy as hell to get rid of him so they don't have to pay him 15 million next season.

I would think that the Pence deal would be a closer comparison than the Victorino deal. That's all. I don't think that it will improve Span's value.

I would think that the Pence deal would be a closer comparison than the Victorino deal. That's all. I don't think that it will improve Span's value.

Pence is gonna make 15 million next season, I don't think Span will make 15 over the remainder of his contract while being a more valuable player then Pence. It's just not a good comp for any potential Span deal.

 

Funny how Pence goes from fetching two very good prospects in Singleton and Cosart to now people realizing that he's not that good of a player.

You may have a point, but if that's the case, do you think any team will give away top pitching talent in the offseason if the Twins look to trade Span then?

The likelihood of OVERpaying isn't any better, but teams that think they may be able to improve in 2013 may kick the tires on Span (Mariners, Cubs, etc.). But you're right... I just don't think many teams will part with top pitching prospects for anyone, so expecting TR to make that kind of deal is a bit unrealistic.

Pence is gonna make 15 million next season, I don't think Span will make 15 over the remainder of his contract while being a more valuable player then Pence. It's just not a good comp for any potential Span deal.

 

Funny how Pence goes from fetching two very good prospects in Singleton and Cosart to now people realizing that he's not that good of a player.

After I saw what Philly got in return for Pence, I retract my previous comments about Span comparison.

So just throwing it out there, both of those propsects would have been nice gets for this organization.... if they had throw in a similar 3rd prospect or MI prospect, would you deal Span for that?

So just throwing it out there, both of those propsects would have been nice gets for this organization.... if they had throw in a similar 3rd prospect or MI prospect, would you deal Span for that?

They actually got 3 prospects. The 3rd one is Twin Cities (and U of M) own Seth Rosin who is pitching pretty well in the Giants' organization. But Span should bring more.... The C is the best prospect in this deal and Span needs to bring a SP who is at least that good a prospect ( or better likely.

Cingrani and Gregorious

 

for Span and Casilla

 

GET IT DONE TR!!!

So just throwing it out there, both of those propsects would have been nice gets for this organization.... if they had throw in a similar 3rd prospect or MI prospect, would you deal Span for that?

I'm not sure if you're referring to the Victorino return or the Pence return, but either way, my answer is "no". The Twins don't need volume, they need quality. They have plenty of mid level prospects who may or may not turn in to serviceable infielders or back of the rotation starters. At this point, if they aren't able to get high-ceiling starting pitching, regardless of current level of play, there's no point in trading away a starting position player with several years left on a reasonable contract.

there's no point in trading away a starting position player with several years left on a reasonable contract.

Sure there is if that player is at the peak of his value and the Twins have a ready in-house replacement. Both of those things are true for Span. Assuming that his value will continue to be steady or rise in the off-season is not true. Injuries etc happen. Got to trade high. But have to get better returns that what Pence and Victorino brought

The Marlins just got Zack Cox, BA's preseason #88 for RP Edward freaking Mujica. Ha! Good luck to any of us trying to predict trade scenarios now.

Sure there is if that player is at the peak of his value and the Twins have a ready in-house replacement. Both of those things are true for Span. Assuming that his value will continue to be steady or rise in the off-season is not true. Injuries etc happen. Got to trade high. But have to get better returns that what Pence and Victorino brought

You're assuming you know he's at peak value now. That's no more "true" an assumption than any other assumption. Could he get injured? Sure. He could also go on a tear and increase his value even more. Just because one possibility fits your desire to see him traded now more than the other possibility doesn't make your assumption any more valid. It's a crapshoot either way and taking a lesser deal now just because he might get injured before the offseason would be foolish.

Just saw an MLB Network that Span "Declined" a trade to the Reds. Huh?

Just saw an MLB Network that Span "Declined" a trade to the Reds. Huh?

Yeah saw that Tweeted, too, and "huh?" was my first reaction.

 

Maybe TR got an offer that he didn't feel was a "must do", but offered Span a choice if he wanted to go to a contender right now? No idea what else it might be. Not aware he had even any partial no-trade rights.