Article: Change At The Top?

[davidc3915]

If the idea is to restructure the front office, I would think Ryan and St. Peter both go.  In order to usher in a "New Era" I think new people should be at the head of that restructuring.  

[Nick Nelson]

 

What, exactly, is his job and how has he excelled at it?

Mostly behind the scenes stuff. For one thing, he has been deeply involved in creating the constantly improving ballpark experience at Target Field, which he deserves much credit for. 

In general I don't think any of us are really qualified to judge his merits as a business exec, and that's not what this article about. It's about the idea of redefining his role and creating a new structure of organizational accountability -- one that doesn't involve Terry Ryan standing on an island when it comes to baseball decisions. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't know the complete list of things that Dave St. Peter is responsible for as the President of the Twins. I believe that it has little if anything to do with baseball. I may be wrong. But I think the stadium is nice, they do good updates each year, the food selections are strong, the gameday experience is great.

Really?  I enjoy baseball just about anywhere, but there doesn't seem to be anything particularly special about Target Field that should earn the Twins or St. Peter special credit.  They were basically handed a golden goose, on many levels.  And it seems every "upgrade" to the stadium has been related to exclusive seating areas and alcohol sales -- which I am sure is profitable, but doesn't involve a whole lot of creativity.  (Indeed, Target Field is generally considered one of the least kid/family friendly stadiums in MLB.)

[nicksaviking]

 

He is not responsible for the circumstances that have led to this outcome, no. The Twin Cities have a low cable subscriber rate and there isn't really any competition with FSN to drive up demand/cost for TV rights. There's no grounds for this being continually cited as an example of poor negotiating. 

 

The Twins were stuck crawling back to FSN mid-season though after their own TwinsTV (or whatever it was called) failed to get picked up by broadcasters. There's no way the team was in a strong position to negotiate when they currently weren't able to reach 95% of their target audience.

 

Not that I'm saying St. Peter was in charge of that fiasco, I have no clue who pushed for that.

[nicksaviking]

 

 

If the idea is to restructure the front office, I would think Ryan and St. Peter both go.  In order to usher in a "New Era" I think new people should be at the head of that restructuring.  

 

Frankly, I could care less who's in charge of the business side of things. If there was a new President of Baseball Operations and St. Peter was given the new title of President of Business Operations, I wouldn't blink an eye.

 

Target Field upgrades, PR, community outreach, promotions and marketing deals; for me they all fall under the title of "Cool, but Tell Me More About the Team".

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

He is not responsible for the circumstances that have led to this outcome, no. The Twin Cities have a low cable subscriber rate and there isn't really any competition with FSN to drive up demand/cost for TV rights. There's no grounds for this being continually cited as an example of poor negotiating. 

It does seem like the Twins did their latest TV deal at the worst possible time (just before a TV deal explosion, and apparently for a fairly long term without an opt-out, as far as I have been able to tell).  It wouldn't be the first time the Twins front office failed to anticipate a trend and quickly fell behind.

 

I mean, if someone says that the Twins should have one of those crazy billion-dollar TV megadeals, sure, that's off-base, the local market wouldn't support that.  But nobody said that here.  All that was said/implied was that the Twins are probably not optimizing their TV revenue.  Of which there is plenty of evidence (the timing of their current deal, their past poor handling of Victory Sports, etc.).

[DaveW]

 

Really?  I enjoy baseball just about anywhere, but there doesn't seem to be anything particularly special about Target Field that should earn the Twins or St. Peter special credit.  They were basically handed a golden goose, on many levels.  And it seems every "upgrade" to the stadium has been related to exclusive seating areas and alcohol sales -- which I am sure is profitable, but doesn't involve a whole lot of creativity.  (Indeed, Target Field is generally considered one of the least kid/family friendly stadiums in MLB.)

I agree 100%

My nearest ballpark is Citi Field, and they have done a much better job overall then the Twins, not only in the adult/food/drink game, but in the kid/family friendly "game" as well.

[Thrylos]

 

Because he seems good at some things. 

 

Can you enumerate them?

[Thrylos]

I have been banging the drum about a need for a President of Baseball Operations for a while now...

 

RE: St. Peter.  He gets a lot of credit for things that Jerry Bell did (like the ballpark).  All I have seen St. Peter talk with some sort of authority are:

 

1. concerts at TF

2. food at TF

3. some Dakota school athletics

 

The Twins can do better in that regard as well 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I think Bill Smith was bad as a GM, but he's good at what he's doing now which is also important.

So you admit Bill Smith was bad as a GM, but you are on record elsewhere saying Rob Antony is a good GM candidate?

 

I mean, I understand defending these guys personally, and believing they are capable in their current limited roles, but this seems like a willful ignorance of history, or any kind of critical examination of how promotions and assignments (and probably a whole host of other decisions) happen in this front office.

[Mike Sixel]

In fairness to Seth, he knows these people personally. It's pretty hard to say bad things in public about people you know.......

[d-mac]

 

Really?  I enjoy baseball just about anywhere, but there doesn't seem to be anything particularly special about Target Field that should earn the Twins or St. Peter special credit.  They were basically handed a golden goose, on many levels.  And it seems every "upgrade" to the stadium has been related to exclusive seating areas and alcohol sales -- which I am sure is profitable, but doesn't involve a whole lot of creativity.  (Indeed, Target Field is generally considered one of the least kid/family friendly stadiums in MLB.)

 

TF is geared toward being an "entertainment venue," not a place to go see a baseball game. In other words, the stadium isn't geared toward us, the actual fans.

 

Maybe I'm feeling a bit nostalgic for the Metrodone, but I can't say I've ever been to to game at TF where the folks sitting around me are actually interested in watching the game. It's starting to feel like a Minnesotan version of the Chicago Cubs' stereotype- the fans don't go to Wrigley to watch a baseball game. 

Edited May 31, 2016 by d-mac

[Thrylos]

 

The Twins were stuck crawling back to FSN mid-season though after their own TwinsTV (or whatever it was called) failed to get picked up by broadcasters. There's no way the team was in a strong position to negotiate when they currently weren't able to reach 95% of their target audience.

 

Not that I'm saying St. Peter was in charge of that fiasco, I have no clue who pushed for that.

 

Pohlad

[TheLeviathan]

Mostly behind the scenes stuff. For one thing, he has been deeply involved in creating the constantly improving ballpark experience at Target Field, which he deserves much credit for. 

In general I don't think any of us are really qualified to judge his merits as a business exec, and that's not what this article about. It's about the idea of redefining his role and creating a new structure of organizational accountability -- one that doesn't involve Terry Ryan standing on an island when it comes to baseball decisions.

 

I agree with your premise, I'm trying to figure out how they are currently using it as well.

 

And count me among the chorus that finds the "improvements" a dubious claim. Beautiful park, but not really improved on for this father who likes to bring his kid.

[Seth Stohs]

 

So you admit Bill Smith was bad as a GM, but you are on record elsewhere saying Rob Antony is a good GM candidate?

 

I mean, I understand defending these guys personally, and believing they are capable in their current limited roles, but this seems like a willful ignorance of history, or any kind of critical examination of how promotions and assignments (and probably a whole host of other decisions) happen in this front office.

 

I don't see how Smith and Anthony are lumped together, other than they were both Assistant GMs under Ryan. 

 

I mean, I think saying that Anthony was responsible for Kubel and Bartlett making the Opening Day roster (And that's all I've heard/read people say) is 1.) too small of a sample size, and 2.) he was in contact with Terry Ryan every single day. He was being the assistant and the voice at that time. And that's all people have on him, so that means pretty much nothing. Do I think he is smart and could be a good GM? I do. Do I know that with certainty? Of course not. But I won't base it off of just the one situation.

[Riverbrian]

Frankly, I could care less who's in charge of the business side of things. If there was a new President of Baseball Operations and St. Peter was given the new title of President of Business Operations, I wouldn't blink an eye.

 

Target Field upgrades, PR, community outreach, promotions and marketing deals; for me they all fall under the title of "Cool, but Tell Me More About the Team".

This is exactly how I feel... Right now I simply don't have the room available to care about St. Peter.

 

I want immediate supervision for Terry Ryan and the advocates he has assembled.

 

I don't know what the problem is exactly but there is a problem.

 

I've personally been wrong for many years when I've stated let the man (Terry Ryan) do his job.

 

My personal clock has run out.

 

SP is a mess

Bullpen is a mess... Actually there wasn't even an attempt to fix it.

The Veterens have been average at best and well below average for the most part

The Youth hasn't been ready and it has over run the 40 man roster.

 

The enormity of the missed assessments in total is off the charts and nobody should survive it. Nobody would in most businesses.

 

I'm simply at the point where I don't trust the collective room and the decisions coming out of that room and I want immediate outside supervision.

 

Does anybody here feel comfortable letting that collective room make a trade in July or June to improve this club for 2017?

 

Does anyone believe there is no way Buxton would be traded and if he was... would you trust the return with the current track record of return on trades?

 

Does anybody feel comfortable letting this room decide when Rosario is ready to come back... Berrios... Meyer... Kepler... Any of them after looking at what the room came up with for opening day 2016?

 

Does anybody here feel 100% sure that this collective decision making room isn't capable of setting us back even further before this season is done?

 

Decisions for 2017 and beyond are important right now and so the search for a Preisdent of Baseball Ops must began now.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

In fairness to Seth, he knows these people personally. It's pretty hard to say bad things in public about people you know.......

I don't think anyone is asking Seth to say bad things about these people.  But there is a difference between saying "Antony is fine at his job" and saying "Antony is a fine MLB GM candidate" -- the former is pretty reasonable (given his likely limited duties, and our limited knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes), while the latter suggests someone who isn't even interested in looking at the situation critically.

[nicksaviking]

 

Pohlad

 

It could be, but Carl was 91 when it was conceived and it was launched after his death.

 

I'm not saying he wasn't the person in charge, but I'd think there was someone(s) else behind it.

[alarp33]

 

I don't think anyone is asking Seth to say bad things about these people.  But there is a difference between saying "Antony is fine at his job" and saying "Antony is a fine MLB GM candidate" -- the former is pretty reasonable (given his likely limited duties, and our limited knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes), while the latter suggests someone who isn't even interested in looking at the situation critically.

 

He also said Jack Goin would be a solid GM candidate... There could be 100 Major League Baseball teams, Goin and Antony wouldn't have a prayer at landing a GM job anywhere but MN.  Those aren't real candidates in any sense of the word. 

[Kwak]

I view the replacement of StP as a "trial balloon" to see if this will mollify the fan base. It won't work for me!  StP wasn't running the baseball team.

 

Let me revisit the Pohlad quote of "...total system failure...". If we are to take him at his word (we should!) then he has reduced his choices to three actions to be consistent with his statement. They are: replace the administrators of "the system" because they erred massively; or, replace "the system" because it doesn't work anymore (implying new people to devise/administer a new system); or sell the team because the cost of fixing everything is too high. Trial balloons of mock change won't work!

Edited May 31, 2016 by Kwak

[nicksaviking]

 

 

I've personally been wrong for many years when I've stated let the man (Terry Ryan) do his job.
 

 

Maybe, but just because Ryan is the wrong guy now, doesn't mean you were wrong about the guy yesterday.  Well, I mean literally yesterday you would have been wrong, but perhaps not some time in the past.

 

Having a job this long no doubt engenders a huge level of attachment both to colleagues and players. Human nature would seem to indicate that the longer someone is with you, the harder it is to see them go. Everyone is so entrenched their roots have wrapped around the foundation of the organization. Getting rid of anyone is hard and painful, doubly so in a situation where men and women have bonded for decades.

 

We need someone new even if for the sole purpose of doing the dirty work and severing the ties of sentimentality.

[Mr. Brooks]

I think Bill Smith was bad as a GM, but he's good at what he's doing now which is also important.

 

I don't know that any of the front office types, etc. are bad at their jobs. I think the results right now are really bad, and I understand that many think that means everyone is doing bad. I tend to look at it differently.

 

I generally like most of the people themselves, so I'm not going to sit and badmouth them as people. I also believe that every move, or non-move, deserves to be judged on its own. Everyone is going to have their "good" moves and everyone is going to have their "bad" moves. Just like all of us in our jobs. I believe in judging process, and that certainly differs than judging just big league results. There are just so many layers to it.

It sounds like you are saying that someone can only be deemed as poor at their job if they get every single decision wrong.

Of course they all make some good moves and some bad moves.

They need to be judged by how those moves stack up against their peers.

Right now the proof is in the pudding, and it ain't good.

 

Whoever said it earlier in the thread is right. This is a business. Results matter, not just the process.

 

It's just not possible that an organization could be this bad for this long without at least one current member of Management being poor at their job.

[Thrylos]

 

I think Bill Smith was bad as a GM, but he's good at what he's doing now which is also important.

 

I think that Bill Smith did a first rate job with the whole Twins' Spring Training / Player Development facilities at Fort Myers.

 

If you think that Bill Smith "was bad as a GM", wouldn't that mean that Terry Ryan (under whom the Twins had a worse record than under Bill Smith,) is worse, or at least that bad?

The bottom line got to matter a bit, regardless whether Ryan busts his tail off...

 

Loveable losers for 25 years has become a tad old, regardless the blasé approach towards the Twins' ownership, front office, and management.

[Riverbrian]

 

 

 

We need someone new even if for the sole purpose of doing the dirty work and severing the ties of sentimentality.

 

Exactly

 

 

[LaBombo]

There's a moment in the movie version of Moneyball where Art Howe insists that Billy Beane postpone an off season meeting with scouts and work with him on a new contract.   In refusing, Billy points out that   "At this moment,   if a grounder is hit to first,   nobody's gonna be there to stop it from rolling".

 

At this moment,   the Minnesota Twins lack a person to stop their baseball operations failures from rolling past first and into right field.

 

That person is not Jim Pohlad.     That's a problem,   to put it mildly,   because as things stand today,   Jim is the only person empowered to make a change at the top of the Twins' baseball operations chain of command.

 

Despite that,   when pressed by Chip Scoggins about the team's struggles and the possibility of taking a new direction at the top,   Pohlad responded with an acknowledgement of "total system failure",   followed by what amounted to a shoulder shrug and a   'Waddaya gonna do?',   as if he were merely an ordinary disgruntled fan.

 

That person is not Dave St. Peter.   While Mr.  St. Peter may be a big Twins fan,   his exchanges with the media make it clear that he's simply not knowledgeable about the baseball operations side of the equation,   and that he is not trending upward in that department.

 

That person is not Terry Ryan.   Terry Ryan is too busy figuring out how to fix the Twins to have either the time or the distance from the problem to figure out whether he should be the guy fixing the Twins.

 

As a franchise,   the Twins are flailing like Byron Buxton in the majors.   They connect occasionally and show signs of promise,   but the results overall are now objectively,  undeniably bad.

 

If Dave St.   Peter really is good at sampling bratwurst and cajoling cable execs,  let him keep doing that in a more narrowly defined role.    But Jim Pohlad needs to find somebody else to really run the Twins,   without a single precondition of retaining ANYONE in their current role.

 

Otherwise that 90-loss ground ball is going to just keep on rolling as long as momentum carries it.

Edited May 31, 2016 by LaBombo

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't see how Smith and Anthony are lumped together, other than they were both Assistant GMs under Ryan.

Both started in business/marketing, both have been here forever, and both got promoted together in 2007 when TR stepped down and the franchise started to go off the rails.  Which is also a key piece of evidence against Antony -- he was the #2 in charge while the franchise fell apart (and he has remained #2 in charge during a long slow rebuild).

 

Even if Antony was a more passive #2 during that time, that doesn't bode well for him as a potential GM -- knowing who to say "no" to, and how to effectively communicate that, are huge skills for a GM.  And even among Antony's known responsibilities like "negotiating player contracts", the Twins haven't exactly demonstrated much success or innovation in that area during Antony's years of service.

 

I have nothing against Antony personally, and I am sure he performs the duties of his job just fine, but the idea that he could be a viable MLB GM is exactly the kind of mindset that produced Bill Smith among a host of other issues.

[BK432]

It feels like this thread has gotten a little off topic, but whatever. The original article talked about a hierarchical shakeup, which is interesting indeed. The ongoing conversation about replacing St. Peter, Ryan etc has also been interesting.

 

Like Riverbrian, I was (too?) patient with Ryan. I think he's likely a very good talent evaluator. His roster formulation and decision-making leaves quite a bit to be desired. But it is clear that the organization needs fresh leadership, and that isn't going to happen with an internal promotion to replace Ryan.

 

For all this, bringing in a heavy hitter to lead all may be the best solution, and if that means St. Peter loses his job too, then that is a necessary consequence. I personally am more positive about his contributions than others (while we all admit we don't know the day to day of his performance) but sometimes good people lose jobs to circumstances. If it's for the greater good of this organization, than so be it.

[Riverbrian]

 

Decisions for 2017 and beyond are important right now and so the search for a Preisdent of Baseball Ops must began now.

 

Private Message to Jim Pohlad:

 

This is one of those moments that you don't want to screw up. 

 

Pick a good one. 

[Mike Sixel]

On topic, I agree, they should hire a President of Baseball, or whatever the old GM is now called.....yes. Agreed. 

 

No idea what that means for everyone else in the organization, but it should mean Ryan and many baseball types are replaced.

 

Terry Ryan has done many great things for this org. I just think it is time for a new voice.

[dxpavelka]

Just to clarify:  The 3 teams you identified as examples of using this two tiered approach, while admittedly trending in a positive direction--at least one of them is, and lets be honest one of the others is two games over .500 with a $223 million payroll, have thus far combined for ZERO World Series rings using this approach.