I thought Ryan said he never entertained offers for Plouffe, not that they got no good offers. That said, 3B were cheap this off season......

 

I agree, other than Abad (who would have guessed), and Santana (not Danny), I don't see any viable trade candidates on this roster (though if Gibson comes back and is good, he is, but I would not deal him).

If Milone is a MLB average pitcher, why did no one claim him? I don't get it.....but they didn't. So, either every team but a handful (who have 5 SPs) are wrong, or we are.

 

I could keep going, but what all this adds up to is a GM painted into a corner.  If you cut those players lose, it is admitting failure...not going to happen.  If he continues to keep those players on the payroll, it blocks the future.  I just don't see a way out of this one.

There's nothing wrong with admitting failure.  It happens.  Not admitting failure and making it worse trying to avoid admitting it is a much bigger problem that only makes things worse.

 

 

Right now the Twins need starters that can give them innings and salvage the beleaguered bullpen. Even with this terrible W/L record that is still a significant priority. Going with someone like Berrios over Milone is simply not an option right now for that reason.

 

Fair point, but not giving them innings and taxing that same beleaguered bullpen was exactly what got him outrighted to begin with.  That's why he's is in AAA and not on the 40 man.  That wasn't even a month ago.  You're more confident in him providing that than I.  

 

Walker = Dave Kingman.  Wish it were Walker = Jim Thome

I'll take it!

 

Walker = Dave Kingman.  

 

In his wildest dreams. We are talking about a 3 time All-Star

 

Right now Walker < Steve Balboni

I don't think it matters what they do with their roster at this point. They got nothing on the farm that is MLB ready that could remotely salvage this season. No one that is tradeable besides, Santana and Plouffe maybe. Just eat contracts and do whatever it takes to get all the bums off this roster by next year and hope the young guys make some nice strides for next season.

Whilst everyone mocks ABW's K-rate, have you been watching Sano lately? I read where he leads MLB in total strikeouts.  Last night:   3Ks, a hustle beat-the-throw to 1B (well done!) force out, and the game-ending (sacrifice) fly out to CF (and Sano represented the winning run!).  Combine his lack of defensive value, why is he still with the Twins rather than in Rochester?  Is it because Kepler is injured? Or, does Sano have a "scholarship"?

 

Despite striking out in a whopping 44% of his plate appearances, Walker has a better OBP thaaaaan

Park
Escobar
Plouffe
Dozier
Suzuki
Santana
Centeno
(Rosario)
(Button)

 

You are comparing his ob% to actual MLB players?   I get what you are trying to say, but it is not apples to apples.   

 

I don't disagree with anything you said here.  I'm not suggesting that you bring up the same guys that have struggled unless they've earned another shot already.  I'm merely stating that we know what we have in Milone.  He provides no hope in my mind.  He's not going to be a part of the future and is more of the same with what this team already has in the rotation.  They should be taking this time to see what they do have in the system.  Play the Polanco's and Kepler's when they're up here.  Give Meyer a real opportunity.  I would have liked to see at least one more start from Berrios.  Potentially exposing someone on the 40 man to waivers for the sake of adding Milone back makes no sense to me.

 

Wins this year mean absolutely nothing.  Work towards the future and play the youth.  That is what provides hope to me.  

Ok, I'm with you now.  Sorry about that, I misunderstood.

 

Polanco is the one that probably disturbs me the most.  He's had callups over the past few years and again this year.  And he's produced!  I've also heard he doesn't have the are for SS.  I've watched him play there:  he most definitely has the arm.  I'd definitely like to see MiLB'ers play more when called up.  If nothing else, we'd learn more about what they need to work on.

 

Sorry, but wins still count for something  

 

If Walker indeed gets the call-up, I'm setting the over/under k% at 53.5% Any takers?

 

Over, way over. He has a 47.6% strike out rate in the month of May in AAA.

 

There's nothing wrong with admitting failure.  It happens.  Not admitting failure and making it worse trying to avoid admitting it is a much bigger problem that only makes things worse.

Totallly in agreement.  Unfortunately, people in power don't often see it this way.

 

Ok, I'm with you now.  Sorry about that, I misunderstood.

 

Polanco is the one that probably disturbs me the most.  He's had callups over the past few years and again this year.  And he's produced!  I've also heard he doesn't have the are for SS.  I've watched him play there:  he most definitely has the arm.  I'd definitely like to see MiLB'ers play more when called up.  If nothing else, we'd learn more about what they need to work on.

 

Sorry, but wins still count for something  

No worries, it's been a friendly discussion.     

 

My biggest concern this year has been the mismanagement of the prospects when they're up here.  Kepler didn't get a legitimate opportunity, Polanco has been abused in my opinion, and Meyer's treatment was a disgrace.  Get these guys up and play them.  Sitting them on the bench makes no sense at all.

 

I do agree that wins still count for something, but not for the sake of playing veterans over kids just to win.  It's more fun to win, it's more fun to watch them win.  I'll take losses now to get those guys experience so that they can hopefully win a whole lot more in the coming years or even later this year.  Being 40 games or 45 games out at the end of the season isn't a whole lot different.

I have sobered up to the fact that Ryan will not shake things up and continue to bang through this miserable season without any significant changes.  Molitor will still be manager by seaons end along with bruno even though this offense will set many Twins records for futility by seasons end.  

 

On the pitching side of things, we will continue to see short stats from Nolasco whose struggled mightly his WHOLE career with the Twins despite the fact that we have younger options that will be immediately better because of FILTHY FREAKING MONEY!  

 

They will continue to sign AAA retreads for the bullpen and OF in a futile attempt to save face and avoid 100 losses instead of calling up youngsters for extended tryouts.  Guys like Buxton, Berrios, Polanco, Meyer, Chargois, etc.  Not all of them will be ready (see Buxton & Berrios), but you have to give them extended looks to see what hand you've been dealt.  Plopping them on the bench for 5-10 games and then demoting them at a convenient times is not how you handle top prospects.  This is the growing body of evidence that Molitor is impatient and not willing to go through the pain of losing in order to grow.    

 

What's needed is a manager that will mentor these callups and allow them that initial experience so that 2017 is not a total loss either.  My vote is Doug Mientkiewicz but there are other candidates too.  

 

Shakes head.  This FO is utterly clueless.  Time to blow this organization up, top to bottom.  The question is when will Jim Pohlad realize that or care.  

Edited May 25, 201610 yr by laloesch

 

Walker = Dave Kingman.  Wish it were Walker = Jim Thome

 

More like Walker= Joey Gallo, if he's lucky. Since 1945 Gallo has the highest k% of any non pitcher with a minimum of 100 PA. Buxton is 15th on that list and Sano is 21st.

 

Despite striking out in a whopping 44% of his plate appearances, Walker has a better OBP thaaaaan

Park
Escobar
Plouffe
Dozier
Suzuki
Santana
Centeno
(Rosario)
(Button)

 

Except he's in AAA. And when did we have somebody on the team named Button? Benjamin Button?

 

If Milone is a MLB average pitcher, why did no one claim him? I don't get it.....but they didn't. So, either every team but a handful (who have 5 SPs) are wrong, or we are.

 

I'd guess nobody wants to pay him $6 mil. 

I'd guess nobody wants to pay him $6 mil.

6 million would be an absolute bargain for an average starting pitcher.

 

We all seem to want the team to "bring up the kids", but who is playing well enough at AAA to justify a call up outside of Polanco or Beresford? Kepler isn't hitting all that well (.275/.812 OPS), Vargas is hitting .257 and can't field a position, and others have chronicled Walker's severe limitations.  Buxton is hitting but just spent a week on the DL and needs a little more time to get his confidence back after being over matched this year.  There's no one on the pitching staff that has shown much who isn't already here other than a recycled Milone, and maybe Buddy Boshers or Chargois (SSS on him). I could see bringing up Polanco and Beresford except that the only guys hitting on this team are the Nunez and Escobar since he came back. The best call up candidates actually turned out to be Grossman and Kintzler. 

 

I'm as frustrated as everyone else and want the FO to "do something" but there just isn't much to do. The cavalry over the hill isn't very good or at least isn't ready. This is a tough one - you promote too early and you retard progress.  Frankly, we may be stuck playing the dreck we now have for at least another month or two before we can bring up a few guys and hope for any sort of competence.  This is depressing. 

 

Yep.  The only thing i can think of is finally cut bait with Nolasco when Gibson comes back.   It is LITERALLY POINTLESS to keep Ricky on the roster anymore.

By the way, just read that the Twins called up Boshers, put Perkins on the 60 day DL and put Mastro on 15 day DL (he's still with the team?). Not sure there's much else to do.

Yep,nothing else to do.

If only we had a legit bullpen prospect who is striking out 2/3 of the hitters he faces.

 

 Kepler isn't hitting all that well (.275/.812 OPS),

 

Vargas is hitting .257 and can't field a position, and others have chronicled Walker's severe limitations. 

 

 

 Gotta check the trends:

 

Kepler is heating up in May:

 

.295/.382/.487/(.869) BB/K= 11/12

 

Vargas is on fire in May:

 

.329/.457/.616/(1.074) 6 HR 9 XBH BB/K= 18/17

 

Vargas last 10 days:

 

.395/.477/.842/(1.319)

 

 

Yep,nothing else to do.
If only we had a legit bullpen prospect who is striking out 2/3 of the hitters he faces.

 

Shag-wah has to wait his turn behind Buddy, then Runzler, then Wimmers... then, ahh what's the use?

 

We all seem to want the team to "bring up the kids", but who is playing well enough at AAA to justify a call up outside of Polanco or Beresford? Kepler isn't hitting all that well (.275/.812 OPS), Vargas is hitting .257 and can't field a position, and others have chronicled Walker's severe limitations.  Buxton is hitting but just spent a week on the DL and needs a little more time to get his confidence back after being over matched this year.  There's no one on the pitching staff that has shown much who isn't already here other than a recycled Milone, and maybe Buddy Boshers or Chargois (SSS on him). I could see bringing up Polanco and Beresford except that the only guys hitting on this team are the Nunez and Escobar since he came back. The best call up candidates actually turned out to be Grossman and Kintzler. 

 

I'm as frustrated as everyone else and want the FO to "do something" but there just isn't much to do. The cavalry over the hill isn't very good or at least isn't ready. This is a tough one - you promote too early and you retard progress.  Frankly, we may be stuck playing the dreck we now have for at least another month or two before we can bring up a few guys and hope for any sort of competence.  This is depressing. 

My only real rebuttal to your points is to give the kids they do call up an actual opportunity.  Don't sit them on the bench rotting.  Actually play them.  Every day.  Buxton is the only one that got a real opportunity in my view.  If they struggle, they struggle.  They at least get a taste.  They figure out what it takes to be a MLB player.  

 

By the way, just read that the Twins called up Boshers, put Perkins on the 60 day DL and put Mastro on 15 day DL (he's still with the team?). Not sure there's much else to do. 

Don't forget about the power signing of Sean Burnett. If Burnett can string together a few good games I'm sure TR would be pretty tempted to lock him up on something like a 5yr $20 million contract or something sneaky like that....

 

Further update: Strib reports Kepler just went on the DL with a groin strain. Give him 15 days plus at least 2 weeks to "round back into shape" - no chance of seeing him until July.  Vargas?  Really?  And play him where? He can't field a lick, so he can't play IB.  Trade him out for Park so he can DH?  Park's a better bet at this point. Besides, we've seen the Vargas movie and know how it's likely to end - a fewextra base hits and a lot of strikeouts. 

 

Did I say to call them up? I merely pointed out that season-long numbers can be deceiving towards where players are currently trending.

 

Vargas could become the DH/PH specialist if- Mauer is moved to the OF, Park to 1B. And another position would open up if Plouffe were traded and Sano moved to 3B- or if, as the Twins seem to be threatening, if Sano is demoted.

 

Not saying any of this will happen, Vargas is likely in the permanent doghouse, based on the results on and off the field last year.

Edited May 25, 201610 yr by jokin

I would try to trade Nolasco to an NL team and tell them you will pay all of his salary in exchange for a dumpster fire.  At least then we can say that we actually have a dumpster fire.

 

 

 

I agree with this - give them a chance when they come up (although that might mean you have to fire the manager). My point is that only Polanco and Beresford are really playing at a level that shows they should get that chance and might be successful. Also, Buxton soon if he keeps it up. The late June OF - Grossman, Buxton and Santana. 

 

I fear that Grossman will revert to the mean and be a mirage in the mirror by late June. Where do you project Sano to be playing by late June? Arcia?

 

The late June OF - Grossman, Buxton and Santana. 

 

If Danny Santana is in the late June OF in a corner spot I quit.  I'm done watching. 

If Danny Santana is in the late June OF in a corner spot I quit.  I'm done watching.

Yeah, my watching has been dialed back about 90% and my going to 2-3 games a year is going to be zero this year. Not sure how this team is #22 in attendence

Edited May 25, 201610 yr by tobi0040

 

Yeah, my watching has been dialed back about 90% and my going to 2-3 games a year is going to be zero this year. Not sure how this team is #22 in attendence

 

I've been watching more than I should... I think it's partly the whole train wreck / can't look away factor.  But at some point for my health I need to stop, and that point might be when Buxton is called back up and Danny Santana continues to play