Article: The More Things Change, The More Things Change

[diehardtwinsfan]

I figured Dean would get a shot before Berrios (not on the 40 man at the time) and maybe Meyer (though Meyer to be honest earned his shot), but yeah, there's been lots of change...

 

I'd really like to be a fly on the wall in a conversation between TR and PM.  Really curious why guys like Polanco and Kepler just sit the bench.  That's fine for a couple days, but at one point, you have to just play them.  I'd rather they have added Beresford to the 40 man and let him sit the bench than to do that with Polanco.  The same with Dean and Meyer.  Polanco and Meyer have talent to have an ML future.  Dean and Beresford are on the fringes.  If you're going to just put the guy on the bench, I'd have brought up those two. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I figured Dean would get a shot before Berrios (not on the 40 man at the time) and maybe Meyer (though Meyer to be honest earned his shot), but yeah, there's been lots of change...

 

I'd really like to be a fly on the wall in a conversation between TR and PM.  Really curious why guys like Polanco and Kepler just sit the bench.  That's fine for a couple days, but at one point, you have to just play them.  I'd rather they have added Beresford to the 40 man and let him sit the bench than to do that with Polanco.  The same with Dean and Meyer.  Polanco and Meyer have talent to have an ML future.  Dean and Beresford are on the fringes.  If you're going to just put the guy on the bench, I'd have brought up those two.

 

At least Mastroianni was called up to sit the bench.

 

wait, why is that good?

[Vanimal46]

 

I figured Dean would get a shot before Berrios (not on the 40 man at the time) and maybe Meyer (though Meyer to be honest earned his shot), but yeah, there's been lots of change...

 

I'd really like to be a fly on the wall in a conversation between TR and PM.  Really curious why guys like Polanco and Kepler just sit the bench.  That's fine for a couple days, but at one point, you have to just play them.  I'd rather they have added Beresford to the 40 man and let him sit the bench than to do that with Polanco.  The same with Dean and Meyer.  Polanco and Meyer have talent to have an ML future.  Dean and Beresford are on the fringes.  If you're going to just put the guy on the bench, I'd have brought up those two. 

I'd really like to be a human being in the same room as TR and PM. Quite frankly I don't think flies comprehend English.... I mean, they never oblige when I say to them "Get out of here, fly!"

[Blake]

I expect the Twins to eat some salary this year. If the Twins do eat salary, I think the candidates are Hughes, Nolasco or Mauer.

 

Just tossing it out there.

 

Red meat among a bunch of piranhas, as it were.

[d-mac]

Meanwhile in AAA... JT Chargois has an ERA of 0, 70% K%, and a FIP of -1.78. It's only 4.1 innings, but still. 

 

By my math, between AA and AAA this year, he has 16 innings, a 40% K%, and a FIP of 1.79, and a WHIP of 1.00.

[alarp33]

 

I expect the Twins to eat some salary this year. If the Twins do eat salary, I think the candidates are Hughes, Nolasco or Mauer.

 

Just tossing it out there.

 

Red meat among a bunch of piranhas, as it were.

 

You think the Twins are going to pay Mauer > $60 million to not play for them? Okkkkk

 

You think they are going to release Hughes before the extension they signed him too even BEGINS?  

 

I would not hold your breath (nor should they do either of those moves)

Edited May 19, 2016 by alarp33

[Mike Sixel]

Why shouldn't the Twins cut Mauer?

 

IF the team is better w/o him (say, Sano at DH, Park at 1B and whomever in RF).......why not cut him? I'm not saying they should, but why not?

 

They are spending the money whether he plays or not. His replacement on teh 25 man roster would cost less than $500K a year most likely (since it is most likely a rookie).

[Edgcumbe Hockey]

At what point do you let Molitor off the hook a bit for players just playing downright bad. I'm not saying none of this debacle is Molly's fault, the buck has to stop somewhere. But Dozier?...come on! Nunez is the best player on the team right now?...ugg. Only one half of the pitching staff works at a time, either you get decent starters or decent relievers (or neither). This team isn't this bad, is it? I say SELL, SELL, SELL! Go young ASAP.

[nicksaviking]

From Jeffery Todd's Q&A at MLBTR:

 

Matt
3:01
"There aren't many teams that would stick with a GM for two decades of .474 baseball and zero playoff success. There aren't many markets in which that GM and his longtime front office assistants would receive little criticism and tons of praise for producing 11 losing seasons in 18 years." - A recent article about Terry Ryan and the Minnesota Twins. how to fix the minnesota twins?

 

Jeffrey Todd
3:02
Ouch. Well, you have to wonder whether ownership is pleased that he's managing things the way it wants and helping make the team money, rather than fretting over his W-L record.

 

Alright, which one of you guys is Matt? Todd's take as an assumed impartial outsider is interesting.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Meanwhile in AAA... JT Chargois has an ERA of 0, 70% K%, and a FIP of -1.78. It's only 4.1 innings, but still. 

 

By my math, between AA and AAA this year, he has 16 innings, a 40% K%, and a FIP of 1.79, and a WHIP of 1.00.

 

I suspect he'll get his shot, though given that he started in AA, I don't think it's unfair to start bashing management on this one.  He did his job there and is now getting a tougher assignment in AAA.  He'll be up soon enough.

[bluechipper]

 

The youngsters need to play every day. The question is should it be in AAA or the majors? Is flailing away in the majors better than doing well in AAA? Personally I think TR gave in to fan pressure and rushed everyone up before they were ready.

I don't know about the rushing players to the big leagues. I know it's different for different players and different teams, but when the Twins bring guys up, they generally have underachieved.

 

One guy I look at is Francisco Lindor. He was a great prospect, but he hit like .270-.280 every year in the minors, and now he's hitting .316 in almost a full season's worth of games. He would seem about as ready as Buxton should be, so...why can't we have nice things?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

At least Mastroianni was called up to sit the bench.

wait, why is that good?

 

Like it or not, it is good in a way.  We may not like Maestro up on the major league team, but Buxton and Rosario certainly haven't cut it.  They pretty clearly needed more time in the minors as they are both clearly overmatched at the moment.  Kepler isn't really a CF, and truthfully he's finally starting to come around in AAA (he was pretty bad in what little PT he's had thus far).  Walker hasn't been very good in AAA either.

 

It's bad from the standpoint that there was no real backup plan for CF, and this is a scenario where you go out and get that 1 year stop gap/make good type contract.  Perhaps that was supposed to be Sweeney, but Buxton hardly earned the job out of spring training and yet Sweeney was cut despite out performing him. 

 

The problem with going with the kids so to speak is that you have scenarios like Rosario and Buxton.  This is hardly unique to the Twins, and it's fairly common when you think about it.  It's the big debate between win now and win later.  You go with the kids, you're choosing win later, which isn't going to go over well with some fans, and you may have to make adjustments like Maestro because they didn't cut it.  That's baseball.  It sucks, but that's how it is.  You go spend a lot of money, you choose win now, but as soon as that age curve hits, whatever money you still owe is still owed.  This isn't the NFL, and you don't get to just cut them.  It's why we are still cursing the Nolasco contract and why no one likes the Mauer contract at the moment. 

[alarp33]

 

 

One guy I look at is Francisco Lindor. He was a great prospect, but he hit like .270-.280 every year in the minors, and now he's hitting .316 in almost a full season's worth of games. He would seem about as ready as Buxton should be, so...why can't we have nice things?

 

Francisco Lindor had a 67 wRC+ and a .246/.280/.331 line through his 1st month in the Bigs.  

 

Sure, Buxton struck out wayyy too often, but I would say its fair to ask, why were the Indians willing to let Lindor learn on the job, while the Twins don't have any interest in that (Buxton, Berrios, Meyer, etc.).  

 

Just a guess, but the Indians probably knew they didn't have better internal options (Pretty clear the Twins don't as well, for the 3 prospects listed above), and knew Lindor would figure it out because he's a super talented kid, who might learn from his ML manager, hitting coach, etc more than he would in AAA. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by alarp33

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Francisco Lindor had a 67 wRC+ and a .246/.280/.331 line through his 1st month in the Bigs.  

 

Sure, Buxton struck out wayyy too often, but I would say its fair to ask, why were the Indians willing to let Lindor learn on the job, while the Twins don't have any interest in that (Buxton, Berrios, Meyer, etc.).  

 

Just a guess, but the Indians probably knew they didn't have better internal options (Pretty clear the Twins don't as well, for the 3 prospects listed above), and knew Lindor would figure it out because he's a super talented kid, who might learn from his ML manager, hitting coach, etc more than he would in AAA. 

 

Buxton wasn't that good his first month, nor his second.  He had plenty of time to learn on the job and didn't improve.  That's what happens when you're overmatched, and it is why he needed to go back down.  I wouldn't fault the Twins for sending him down.  He's not ready.  I would fault them for not having (or using if you count Sweeney) a viable option in the first place.

[alarp33]

 

Buxton wasn't that good his first month, nor his second.  He had plenty of time to learn on the job and didn't improve.  That's what happens when you're overmatched, and it is why he needed to go back down.  I wouldn't fault the Twins for sending him down.  He's not ready.  I would fault them for not having (or using if you count Sweeney) a viable option in the first place.

 

Buxton started 15 games this season before being sent to AAA. Berrios started 4, Meyer 1.  

 

No one is denying they were a bad 15, 4 or 1 games.   The question is, why weren't they given more time, since the replacement options are just as bad or even worse

 

Edit* He actually only started 12 games (1 of these I have listed as a start he came off the bench in the 1st inning, can't remember which game it was)

 

Game Log

 

Started 4 Games

Sat 1

Started 3

Sat 3 

Started 3

Sat 1

Started 2

Sat 1

Started 1

 

Yup - he SURE got plenty of chances this season to get in a rhythm and learn to hit ML pitching

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by alarp33

[d-mac]

 

I suspect he'll get his shot, though given that he started in AA, I don't think it's unfair to start bashing management on this one.  He did his job there and is now getting a tougher assignment in AAA.  He'll be up soon enough.

He's 25. He relies primarily on triple digit heat for outs. Based on his age he's at his peak velocity, and will start dropping as he gets closer to 30. If the Twins want to maximize his value, they need him up ASAP. I don't know what else he has left to prove. 

[Taildragger8791]

 

Francisco Lindor had a 67 wRC+ and a .246/.280/.331 line through his 1st month in the Bigs.  

 

Sure, Buxton struck out wayyy too often, but I would say its fair to ask, why were the Indians willing to let Lindor learn on the job, while the Twins don't have any interest in that (Buxton, Berrios, Meyer, etc.).  

 

Just a guess, but the Indians probably knew they didn't have better internal options (Pretty clear the Twins don't as well, for the 3 prospects listed above), and knew Lindor would figure it out because he's a super talented kid, who might learn from his ML manager, hitting coach, etc more than he would in AAA. 

 

The problem with your comparison is that first month stat line for Lindor is better than any single month that Buxton has yet compiled in the majors. And after that first month Lindor went on to crush it whereas Buxton has done nothing but flounder. He has shown almost no sustained improvement over ~180 plate appearances. He's still very young and flew through the minors with a lost year in 2014. Let him go work things out with a lower pressure environment for a while.

 

I have no problem with lettings the struggling young players work things out at AAA away from the spotlight of the big club. That has to be a pretty toxic atmosphere up there right now. Meyer is a guy I really want to see put in the rotation to sink or swim, but that's more based on his age and service time at AAA already. If he bombs then move him to the bullpen until he either figures it out or plays his way out of the league. Polanco should be playing every day as well since he seems to be ready, but if he's just going to sit on the bench then I'd rather he keep playing at AAA instead of stagnating his development.

[David HK]

 

The only thing I'd change with this would be that I'd like to see all of those guys up in July.  At this point however, a full fledged youth movement would be welcome.  That would at least be a display of some sort of plan.

I'm OK wit dat.  And as soon as Roose Bolton with the wad of BlackJack in his craw over there in the dugout is gone, I would be OK wit dat, too.

Edited May 20, 2016 by David HK

[DocBauer]

I suspect he'll get his shot, though given that he started in AA, I don't think it's unfair to start bashing management on this one.  He did his job there and is now getting a tougher assignment in AAA.  He'll be up soon enough.

 

Precisely. And lest we forget, while he has been mostly lights and dominant, he missed 2 full seasons due to injury and recovery, yes? He may be a natural, but he's also really just getting his feet wet in pro ball. Really, he's pretty much on the fast track right now. I'm not going to slam the Twins on this one.

[jimmer]

 

I'm OK wit dat.  And as soon as Roose Bolton with the wad of BlackJack in his craw over there in the dugout is gone, I would be OK wit dat, too.

are you caught up with GOT? :-)

[Deduno Abides]

The good news is that a SS who is compared to Manny Machado is currently predicted to be the second choice in the 2017 draft.

[DocBauer]

Why shouldn't the Twins cut Mauer?

 

IF the team is better w/o him (say, Sano at DH, Park at 1B and whomever in RF).......why not cut him? I'm not saying they should, but why not?

 

They are spending the money whether he plays or not. His replacement on teh 25 man roster would cost less than $500K a year most likely (since it is most likely a rookie).

 

I don't think the Twins would ever flat out cut Mauer. But I have maintained that after the past two seasons, should he perform the same this year, or further regress, he may simply decide it's time to move on with his life and his family and hopefully continued good health, (no further injuries or concussions) There is a lot of pride in a top athlete. But failure to perform as you have in the past, as you wish you still could, can wear on a player. Not all players hold on and scratch and claw until it's over.

 

I wonder, would the Twins nudge him that direction as well? I have maintained he could be offered deffered money, or a role with the organization...say a personal services contract...that would offset any lost income from retiring. I know he's still got a couple big financial years ahead, but he's also made a bunch, is set for life, has a young family, and there is the whole pride issue of "I can't do it any more".

 

I was hopeful he would rebound in his 3rd year post concussion. He's turned in to a solid 1B, and he's a veteran LH bat in a lineup that leans right. If he could recapture even some of his past ability, hit .280 ish with a quality OB%, doubles, a few HR and some clutch hitting. Maybe he still will. But sadly, it's just not looking that way right now.

[David HK]

 

are you caught up with GOT? :-)

Yep.  He got nixed from Winterfell and turned up in the dugout at Tar-gette Field.

[Deduno Abides]

The bad news is that the Twins are quiet on the rumor front for the July 2 international free agent signing period. Sano, Polanco, Kepler, Santana, Arcia- they've had a lot of success there (although the more recent signings are heard about less than the Maytag repairman) and it would be a good way to counter the lingering perception of cheapness. The Braves are tied to 10 of the top 30, including one player considered to be the best since Sano.

[alarp33]

The bad news is that the Twins are quiet on the rumor front for the July 2 international free agent signing period. Sano, Polanco, Kepler, Santana, Arcia- they've had a lot of success there (although the more recent signings are heard about less than the Maytag repairman) and it would be a good way to counter the lingering perception of cheapness. The Braves are tied to 10 of the top 30, including one player considered to be the best since Sano.

The Braves are rebuilding, that's smart. The Twins are...... Who freaking knows

[Mike Sixel]

 

The bad news is that the Twins are quiet on the rumor front for the July 2 international free agent signing period. Sano, Polanco, Kepler, Santana, Arcia- they've had a lot of success there (although the more recent signings are heard about less than the Maytag repairman) and it would be a good way to counter the lingering perception of cheapness. The Braves are tied to 10 of the top 30, including one player considered to be the best since Sano.

 

It is a strange way to run a business.