Article: Line Of Succession

[brvama]

I think most people are...Why would they keep those guys around Post-Ryan?

I'm sorry, but that is a bit extreme. You're saying everyone is failing their job and its best to start from scratch. That's like having an ignition problem so you just replace the whole motor.

 

Wholesale cleansings are seldom done and usually only after extreme incompetence demonstrated by everyone involved. There is value to have subordinates who are skill and knowledgeable in their positions to stay to help the primary decision-makers (read GM).

 

In the traditional business structure the decisions come from the top and often the underlings are overruled. Throwing everyone out would set any business back for a time. IMO not a good idea. Now replacing the top tier is a different story.

[Thrylos]

 

Thrylos, are you inferring that their should be a wholesale clean out to the FO?

 

Yeah.  Buy one get 3 free... 

[tobi0040]

 

I think the Cubs are demonstrating how you have to have a really specific plan for what you like and what you don't and build with that.  I think Terry comes from an era where you just assembled assets and tried to fit them as you go.

 

Epstien has brilliantly targeted hitters with high picks and high value trades because he knows that scouting their future impact is generally more reliable.  (Plus they are less likely to have injury issues and longer careers) He's supplemented the pitching staff with buy-low moves and free agent dollars.  

 

That basic framework is so easy to replicate.  Or, hell, do something else smart for all I care - but time for a total change in organizational framework.  Gut the whole front office.

 

Yeah, hire a really smart up and comer from another organization that is more well respected than the Twins.  We could throw out about five really good examples and another 10-15 that would be an improvement upon today.  When you do that, they tend to know other smart, well respected people and bring them over too. 

 

Sign me up.  

 

Watch the guys let go either retire or take lesser jobs elsewhere.  Similarly how nobody is beating down Gardy's door. Tommy Milone's door.  Casey Fien is in AAA.  We paid Duensing $6M the last three years and he has yet to throw a pitch somewhere else. And so on.  The Gardy coaching tree, or front office tree of Terry Ryan is not exactly blooming.

Edited May 11, 2016 by tobi0040

[Thrylos]

 

I'm sorry, but that is a bit extreme. You're saying everyone is failing their job and its best to start from scratch. That's like having an ignition problem so you just replace the whole motor.

Wholesale cleansings are seldom done and usually only after extreme incompetence demonstrated by everyone involved. There is value to have subordinates who are skill and knowledgeable in their positions to stay to help the primary decision-makers (read GM).

In the traditional business structure the decisions come from the top and often the underlings are overruled. Throwing everyone out would set any business back for a time. IMO not a good idea. Now replacing the top tier is a different story.

 

You have to bring someone who can really go though each one of them and figure out who is worthwhile to keep.  And they better do it soon, so he sees them in action.   Some people might be good, but they are in the wrong role.  Some people might have great ideas but have been stifled by the higher ups.

 

One needs to figure that stuff out, but anyone who has been in the organization in a senior position has to go...

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Thrylos

[alarp33]

 

I'm sorry, but that is a bit extreme. You're saying everyone is failing their job and its best to start from scratch. That's like having an ignition problem so you just replace the whole motor.

Wholesale cleansings are seldom done and usually only after extreme incompetence demonstrated by everyone involved. There is value to have subordinates who are skill and knowledgeable in their positions to stay to help the primary decision-makers (read GM).

In the traditional business structure the decisions come from the top and often the underlings are overruled. Throwing everyone out would set any business back for a time. IMO not a good idea. Now replacing the top tier is a different story.

 

I didn't say everyone has failed at their job, and I'm sure there would be some employees who stick around.  There are a lot of people in Baseball Operations.  

 

But a new GM (and president) should come in, and have the ability to choose their own people to surround themselves with.  

 

I would guess the new GM would want to expand things like analytics department, have their own right hand man, etc.  Pretty standard stuff for the top of the organization

[DaveW]

People who I think need to go ASAP:

 

Terry Ryan

Rob Antony

David St Peter

 

Those guys need to go, period, dot com, end of story, for I have spoken.

 

The rest of the guys can be let go or kept depending on how well they mesh with the new GM.

[nicksaviking]

Not to derail the thread, but I'd be curious to know if Andy McPhail would have had interest in returning and becoming president of the Twins instead of the Phillies had he had the choice.

[DaveW]

Why Dave St Peter you ask?

 

Well for one, the abhorrent "save the Twins" commercial he green lit involving a child with cancer.

 

Also, this:

 

[Mike Sixel]

St. Peter also told us to shut the heck up about the 25th man on the roster, it didn't matter......

 

Really, I find most of the Twins leadership to be condescending. I can't even listen to Ryan on the radio. 

[brvama]

I think most people are...Why would they keep those guys around Post-Ryan?

  

I didn't say everyone has failed at their job, and I'm sure there would be some employees who stick around.  There are a lot of people in Baseball Operations.  

 

But a new GM (and president) should come in, and have the ability to choose their own people to surround themselves with.  

 

I would guess the new GM would want to expand things like analytics department, have their own right hand man, etc.  Pretty standard stuff for the top of the organization

First, you did say that in your first response. Secondly, and more important, I agree that whoever is put in place should have the freedom to retain or replace anyone. Usually, that is a given.

[Pardon My Dinger]

BREAKING: Twins go outside the organization, hire new GM.

GM George...George Glass. 

[mazeville]

I understand Terry Ryan has respect throughout baseball. But, honestly, do we not think it's not time to bring in someone from outside the organization?

 

Terry has had five years to fix this. He hasn't fixed it. A few points:

 

* Yes, he helped build the farm system; but he SHOULD have built up the farm system because the team has had top draft choices for years now and some of these top prospects (like Miguel Sano) were actually signed under Bill Smith. Relatively few of the team's top prospects have come to the team via trade.

 

* Most of his free agent signings have not worked. Even the players who did work initially, Phil Hughes and Kurt Suzuki, were then resigned to longer-term deals and have regressed badly.

 

* He had badly misaligned the roster. There are too many poor fielding corner infielders/outfielders/DH types; not enough guys who can get on base and few stud fielders. This team badly needs a couple of trades to realign the roster. (As a side note: The piss-poor fielding likely cost the team a win last night, or at least extra innings - a better left fielder likely gets Adam Jones' hit in the 9th).

 

* The bullpen. Oh, the bullpen. That bullpen has cost the team several games this season, and everybody KNEW in the offseason that it needed to be fixed. And while Terry Ryan wants to reserve spots for his young arms like Burdi and Chargois, those guys aren't up with the team.

 

Again, Terry Ryan is owed a lot of credit for the 2000s resurgence. But it really is time to overhaul the front office and bring in some outsiders.

[David HK]

To tell the truth, I'm more dismayed at Molly's management than Ryan's.  You've got to do the best with what you're given to work with, and the mind-boggling decisions on lineups and game days, along with the club's seeming unpreparedness in so many situations, (middle-school level baserunning mistakes, defensive lapses of throwing to the wrong base, or not being focused enough to handle relay throws), that's on the field manager.   So we're lacking in the bullpen, and too often in the rotation- so people aren't hitting the way they have in the past-  fer cryin' out loud, find the hot hand, and put them in a position to help- don't have your hottest current hitter in the god-forsaken 9 spot.  Don't put a guy fresh off a lackluster rehab in cleanup.  Don't bring up a guy who's been lights out in AAA and make him sit for 9 days.  These are elemental things, that shouldn't have to be addressed at the mlb level.

 

[Thrylos]

 

People who I think need to go ASAP:

 

Terry Ryan

Rob Antony

David St Peter

 

Those guys need to go, period, dot com, end of story, for I have spoken.

 

The rest of the guys can be let go or kept depending on how well they mesh with the new GM.

 

Nah.  These too are part of the problem:

 

Mike Radcliff
Bill Smith
Wayne Krivsky
Deron Johnson

Ron Gardenhire

 

[DaveW]

 

Nah.  These too are part of the problem:

 

Mike Radcliff
Bill Smith
Wayne Krivsky
Deron Johnson

Ron Gardenhire

Forgot about Radcliff and Krivsky

 

Gardy should stay.

[GCTF]

 

BREAKING: Twins go outside the organization, hire new GM.

 

GM George...George Glass. 

Is that a tarantula on his head? Extra points if yes.

[Thrylos]

 

 

Gardy should stay.

 

Sure.  As the equipment manager.

[Rigby]

 

Sure.  As the equipment manager.

Who else could play Santa at the team Christmas party?

[savvyspy]

I'd rather see the team contracted than have Rob Antony as GM just to avoid the frustration. 

 

Negotiating contracts is maybe priority #30 for this organization right now. Antony is a horrible choice for this team both in fit and the fact that he's a complete Terry Ryan yes man.

 

Jack Goin would probably be the most interesting internal choice. I would have to think he would at least bring the team's approach 25 years into the current century.

 

I still think the best route would be completely cleaning house and bringing in a new regime to start from scratch. Go the Timberwolves route. 

[Mike Sixel]

Well, can we agree that whomever said "I know he has 2 years left on his deal, and I know he's never actually been good before this year, and I know he tinkers with his stuff all the time.....but we should extend Hughes".....that guy should not be in the FO anymore?

[raindog]

I'm so horrified to think that the Torii Hunter thing might actually happen.

[dxpavelka]

If Gardenhire's being groomed as anything it might be as a potential manager.  The current guy in that spot seems to be among the struggling.  Don't see him being groomed as a potential GM. 

[S.]

Anyone who thinks Rob Antony would be a good GM must have lost their mind entirely from watching this team play. Or they're part of the good ol' boys club and afraid of losing their press pass.

[Mr. Brooks]

To tell the truth, I'm more dismayed at Molly's management than Ryan's. You've got to do the best with what you're given to work with, and the mind-boggling decisions on lineups and game days, along with the club's seeming unpreparedness in so many situations, (middle-school level baserunning mistakes, defensive lapses of throwing to the wrong base, or not being focused enough to handle relay throws), that's on the field manager. So we're lacking in the bullpen, and too often in the rotation- so people aren't hitting the way they have in the past- fer cryin' out loud, find the hot hand, and put them in a position to help- don't have your hottest current hitter in the god-forsaken 9 spot. Don't put a guy fresh off a lackluster rehab in cleanup. Don't bring up a guy who's been lights out in AAA and make him sit for 9 days. These are elemental things, that shouldn't have to be addressed at the mlb level.

And Terry Ryan hand picked Mollie as his field manager, so that all comes back to Terry.

That's the responsibility of being in upper management. You are responsible for the hires you make, period.

[Willihammer]

"Line of Succession."

 

Begins with the owners, doesn't it? Presumably Carl knew something about baseball and the Twins when he chose to purchase the franchise in 1984. But the Pohlad boys, do they even like baseball? Do they watch the games and root for the team? I mean we moan about the incompetency of TR and Molitor, but what can you really expect if the CEO and owners aren't baseball people? Is that the case?

 

I mean, I hope that's not the case. But from where I'm sitting, 2/3 of the family is completely hands off this team. Making movies and whatnot. Jim is the only owner who even sits in the front office. And whenever there's an interview like the one Scoggins did, the man sounds ambivalent about the team.

 

If the insularity begins with the owners, then its no surprise the rest of the front office follows suit, is it? And why should fans expect any differently going forward, as long as the Pohlads remain owners?

[Vanimal46]

I don't think there's anything wrong with having hands-off ownership, as long as they stay competitive with the market rate on payroll... Heck, a lot of the hands-on owners that come to mind are ego-maniacs and end up sabotaging their team's chances (Al Davis with the Raiders, Steinbrenner trading every prospect he had for veterans, Jerry Jones and Mark Cuban going insane in Dallas) I don't know this as fact, but I'd be willing to assume that billionaires invest in tons of things they don't have a direct interest in.. Even sports teams. They just know they're going to make boat loads of money from it. 

If they trust someone else to be the real baseball mind, I'm fine with that. I believe we're all in unison that Terry Ryan should not be that baseball architect anymore. 

[Mike Sixel]

Seems to me the Yankees had plenty of success under that owner.....But your point stands.

[Vanimal46]

 

Seems to me the Yankees had plenty of success under that owner.....But your point stands.

Yeah the Yankees may not be the best example, simply because they had the resources to over pay anyone they wanted. I certainly wish the Pohlad's would sell so we could have an owner invested in the product and spends more money... I just don't think an owner has to be hands-on fully invested in baseball to make a difference. If they have the right baseball people in upper management, and they're strictly the finances behind the scenes, that can work too. 

[Willihammer]

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with having hands-off ownership, as long as they stay competitive with the market rate on payroll... Heck, a lot of the hands-on owners that come to mind are ego-maniacs and end up sabotaging their team's chances (Al Davis with the Raiders, Steinbrenner trading every prospect he had for veterans, Jerry Jones and Mark Cuban going insane in Dallas) I don't know this as fact, but I'd be willing to assume that billionaires invest in tons of things they don't have a direct interest in.. Even sports teams. They just know they're going to make boat loads of money from it. 

If they trust someone else to be the real baseball mind, I'm fine with that. I believe we're all in unison that Terry Ryan should not be that baseball architect anymore. 

I wouldn't want the owners to be like Jerry Jones either. I mean, I have a job and I know that it sucks to be micro managed. Too much involvement hurts output. But I wouldn't expect to be completely unaccountable to my boss either. I know I wouldn't do my best work if that were the case. Neither extreme is desirable.

[tobi0040]

Neither extreme is good.  You are right.  But if I had to pick I would take the owner that cares so much he meddles and is quick to replace people that are incompetent.   We have a guy that has not run a thing in his life who is either in denial or afraid to fire someone. 

 

At least Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder have their heads in the right spot and are competitive to no end.  You have guys worth billions who get upset about their team losing and think they alone can fix it.  And I believe I heard the other day that since Jimmy Johnson left, the Cowboys were a .500 team.  That is a far cry from where the Twins have been.