Article: Total Support: Why Jim Pohlad's Unsatisfying Comments May Be Wise

[KidBro]

I'm surprised this isn't looked at a bit more but here is my (amature GM status) 2 cents (I hope this doesn't get too long winded ((WARNING:crap it did))

 

I think the KC Royals, laid out a fantastic blueprint on how to win a championship as a smaller market team over the last 2 years.  I think the Royals, and Cubs have shown how to build a successful team using a stocked farm system. Some of this is hindsight and to late for the Twins to adapt to, and some was apparent, and then ignored by our FO.  But moving fwd, I think we still have a window of opportunity, but we need to have a plan, and stick to it.... and is Ryan the right guy for this plan?

 

I'll start w/ how KC and CHC built their teams, and the Twins failed this approach.  They had a group of young players, play together thru the minor leagues (For the Cubs it was mostly AAA Iowa due to acquired pieces).  KC may have accelerated their players to the MLB a bit quicker, but most all came up and faced the trials and tribulations of the MLB together.  They learned on the fly, and stayed true to their game (D and aggressive speed on basepaths).  The Cubs are the same, they built a powerhouse AAA team, w/ some of the elite who's who of prospects.  Some players got plenty of seasoning at Iowa, and some just had a pit stop before heading east on 80.  But for the most part they caravanned east on 80 together.  The SUCCESSFUL Cubs and Royals teams were going to be built with the prospects and fill the holes/missing pieces/key additions w/ FA signings (obviously easier for the Cubs).  The Twins, no offense to some guys I really like, but have been using barely league avg Veterans and shuffling prospects back and forth willy nilly.  Signing stop gap FA (pitchers) to big(ger than normal for Twins) deals, when we really haven't been in a place to make a run (wasted resources????).  Where is the objective???? What is our teams identity????  We have had a loaded farm system, that guys have won championships together at multiple stops thru the minors for 3 years now.  That's the core group, not (again I'm sorry to these players that I've grown to cheer for) Dozier, Plouffe, Hughes, Zuke, Perkins etc.  Some of this plan has already been breached, but it's not to late to be sellers in Jun/Jul and start the core the 2nd half of the season.  Learning curves you bet, but look at Cain, Hosmer, Perez, Rizzo, Baez first season and a half (give or take) in the majors.... and now they are the leading pieces to Championship Caliber teams.  

I need to add the blueprint, since it was in my thesis.  Dayton Moore/Yost/KC FO a smaller market team, developed a strategy different from other AL teams.  They lost Grienke a legitimate #1, and started the 2014/15 season w/ a rotation that I don't think had a true ace, similar of the Twins. But they had a balanced rotation, that could keep the game close until the 6th inning b/c they had one of the best defenses on the field.  They eliminated opposing offenses stealing bases, they eliminated teams going 1st to 3rd w/ fast OF w/ good arms.  And then hand it over to the bullpen that we all know what they are. They ranked dead last in HR's hit in 2014.  However they put the ball in play, got on base at a high percentage, and got themselves into scoring position.  And they weren't afraid to make a deal at the trade deadline last year for a 3 month rental.  Whether that was the difference of them having rings or not, I don't know, but they won.  

 

I don't expect the Twins to follow exactly, but for teams that aren't able to sign Aces to 10 year deals (I don't want to really) I think what KC did is pretty genius. Unless we develop our own #1's and 2's, it's unlikely we can matchup in October w/ other playoff teams starting pitching.  So you have to beat them at the back end.  You have to be willing to adapt.  You have to be willing to find other teams areas of weakness, and make those your strength.  You have to invent ways to win.  I don't ever expect the Twins to be the Nikola Tesla's of MLB, but let's not be the last to the party either. Great Job Dayton Moore.  Ryan, or his heir successor, be BOLD, and don't look back.  I will never fault a non-playoff team, if you Have a plan.  Seeing the last 3-4 years, I'm looking really hard to find a plan.  

 

(Note)- Most of this ramble is speaking in generalizations.  I could have added plenty of specifics, but this is already long winded enough.  Just needed a good vent w/ my faithful Twins Brethren.  

 

 

[Platoon]

Glen Taylor, paging Glen Taylor the Twins need to board the Korn Ferry.

Everytime I think of Taylor and the woofies, and want to commend him on his recent decisions, I think of how many years it took him to make one. And I go back to the corner of moms basement.

[Platoon]

The 2015 Twins were fool's gold, and shame on anyone who wasn't clearheaded enough to see that. To try an pin the past 6 years on any one person is naive. A variety of people in a variety of roles have come and gone, yet the results are still the same. The issue is that rather than make changes and bring in outsiders, the Twins have run their organization like a game of musical chairs. Gardenhire was the fall guy, he sat out a year, and then the organization brought him right back in. How do you expect anything to actually change when this is the approach?

Add Smith to the fall guy list. Edited May 6, 2016 by Platoon

[Deduno Abides]

Good to counsel patience and foresight, even though those are two of the qualities most missing in Mr. Ryan. August would be the appropriate time to make changes to big league management.

 

The concern is that history suggests these statements were warnings to the minor league staffs, who are probably being reviewed by Gardenhire. Whenever change has been done in the past, it's usually been minor league staff who have been blamed for failure at the major league level.

[Willihammer]

The Twins are 450-550 since Target Field opened.

They are 1432-1604 under Ryan

They are 1701-1823 under Ryan/Smith

They are 91-99 under Molitor.

 

At some point results have to matter.

[zchrz]

 

Everytime I think of Taylor and the woofies, and want to commend him on his recent decisions, I think of how many years it took him to make one. And I go back to the corner of moms basement.

 

Oh no doubt he has been terrible, the Wolves have been maybe the worst franchise in professional sports.  However he stepped up this off season and made a quick informed decision to get his pick of the best coaches on the market.  Kudos to him for not penny pinching and going for it finally.

[Pitz]

losing is frustrating

[Pitz]

winning would be more fun

 

[ThejacKmp]

 

Mauer   $23M
Santana $13M
Nolasco  $12M
Hughes  $9M
Plouffe  $7.2M
Perkins $6.3M
Suzuki  $6M
Jepsen  $5M
Milone  $4.5M
Dozier  $3M
Park $2.7M
Fein  $2.2M

 

 

Let’s take a step back.   These 12 players are making $94M, not a cherry picked list.  These are the Twins ranked by salary.   How many of these guys could we trade right now and have another team take on their full contract?  Park for sure.  Maybe Dozier. A slight chance on Plouffe but probably not. So we have $89M devoted to 10 players that have no value at all.  That is a huge indictment of the GM.

 

This is fun but I think you’re too pessimistic on this.

 

I agree that few of these guys have a ton of value but I think many of these contracts would be assumed by another team (and that’s really what we’re talking about here – is this contract so bad that if a guy was waived, no one would claim him and the Twins would eat the salary?) With Milone and Fien we will get to see this today since they are going through waivers right now –the very definition of “would someone take on this contract.” (For the record I think Milone will maybe be taken and Fien will certainly not be).

 

As for the rest, teams won’t give up tons/any of value but I think that many more of the contracts would be taken and some you’d get something for them.  Let’s rank them from most to least tradable (I did the full contract because that matters – I didn’t include buyouts because it’s complicated and I don’t think they materially affect any of these):
-----------------
Park 4 years/$12 million: The Twins could clearly get a lot for Park since right handed power is solid, he’s on a fantastic contract and he’s played a decent 1B so isn’t just a DH. They won’t do it but maybe they should? VERDICT: A nice shiny trade chip.

 

Dozier 3 years/$18 million: Dozier would certainly be tradable, you’re underselling him based on some slumping. He hasn't played very well in the first month but he's four months removed from the all-star game and is a 2B who plays decent D and has pop on a pretty team-friendly contract. You would get something interesting for him for sure (not elite prospects but someone you could realistically project playing in the majors some day). VERDICT: You can certainly get something for him but you’d be selling low. Wait til the deadline – a streaking Dozier could be one of the more interesting guys on the market.

 

Perkins 2 years/$12.8 million: This may be off because I’m treating it as if he comes back healthy. This is tough because he's injured and no one trades for an injured pitcher. But before the season he would certainly be tradable and if he came back and had two good outings he would be as well. He's another guy with a team-friendly contract. He may not close for other teams but a healthy Perkins is an asset many teams would take. Hopefully he can be healthy for the deadline because I’d love to see the Twins get something for him and set the path for younger guys. VERDICT: Incomplete. As is now, some team would take the contract because if he comes back, he can be a back-end bullpen piece. With a short demonstration of health, almost every team would grab him on waivers. If he has a good month, he’s a very nice trade piece.

 

Plouffe 1 year/$7.2 million + arb: Plouffe's contract would also certainly be taken on by some other team. He's a league average player at a position where many teams have issues. Plus his contract this year is decent and you can let him be a free agent next year if you don’t want him so he carries no long-term risk. The Twins haven't moved him yet because they're hoping his value will go up, not because he has no value. I’d almost move him ahead of Perkins – only reason not to is that relievers can be fit into almost any team while a team would have to have a need at 3B/1B to want Plouffe. VERDICT: You can get something for him but it might not be much.

 

Jepsen 1 year/$5.3 million: He hasn’t been amazing of course but he’s a reliever with a history of success and someone would easily take on this contract. Like Plouffe, you can walk away end of the season so there’s no long term commitment for a guy who has been a legitimate bullpen weapon. His contract would be taken off the Twins hands. VERDICT: Contract would be picked up, you might get a long-shot prospect? Probably not.

 

Santana 3 years/$40.5 million: Santana is a tougher call just because of how much time he has left on the deal. He’s a veteran starter signed at a reasonable rate for a 3rd/4th starter for only two more years after this one – you’d think some wealthy team with pitching needs (the Angels? The White Sox?) would be willing to take him off the Twins hands. I don’t think you’d get much/anything for him but someone would take the contract. VERDICT: Contract would be picked off waivers and you might be able to trade him for something small but no one is giving you anything amazing for him.

 

Suzuki 1 year/$6 million: Suzuki is an interesting case. The salary isn't prohibitively large but there isn't a team that wants him as their #1 (including the Twins, who just had no other better options and are hamstrung by JRM's struggles) and most teams either have a veteran #2 or have a young developing #2. That said, I imagine a team that had a starting catcher get injured would gladly take on Suzuki as their new backup (he’s better than the Juan Centeno/Chris Hermann types). Third catcher is a pretty low bar to clear and while the salary isn't cheap, Suzuki is a vet a team would feel comfortable with in a pinch and there’s no long term commitment. But agreed that it would be hard to get anything for him and you'd need someone to have a need. VERDICT: Need the right injury situation but you could get at least three bags of balls for him.

 

Nolasco 2 years/$24 million: This is where I think we move over to pretty untradeable guys. It’s strange to put Ricky ahead of Hughes but he’s only got one more year after this on the deadline. I think it would be very tough to get someone to take this contract but if he had another month of relative success, some pitching-needy team might be willing to take him on as a back of the rotation starter they only have one more year to commit to. That’s pretty tough though, $12 million next year is killer. VERDICT: Not very likely and there’s no way you’re getting anything for him.

 

Hughes 4 years/$48.8 mill: Hard to see someone taking Hughes. Four years is a long time and he’s already 30 and has over a year of struggling and diminishing velocity. He could be moved to the pen but he’d have to be elite to justify spending that money and there’s no indication he would be. Pretty untradeable. VERDICT: Not a chance, best path might be demonstrating some value as a reliever in the future.

 

Mauer 3 years/$69 million: Crazy that perhaps the best player on this list is the least tradable guy but as a 1B with little power, he’d be a tough sell. If he had one year left, there’s a decent chance some super rich team would value his OBP and bring him aboard to cover an injury but with three years left, this contract is the Twins. Which I’m glad about. #joemauerforlife VERDICT: Nope.

 

Thoughts on these? Not a ringing endorsement of the Twins free agent moves but you could just shed the salary easier on these than we might think.

[Rosterman]

So we should be playing ALL the rookies together, at some point. Humm. Look at the AAA roster this year and the last few. How many of these guys would you actually see, long-term, in the majors. Seems the AA roster is the last "core of youngsters" development stop. Filling your AAA franchise with minor league free agents, so many so that some spill down into AA and even high A means you may have something wrong, overall, in your player draft system. Not enough guys making it past year one or year two to hold fort and PUSH these prospects playing at, say, AA ball into AAA...even if overmatched?

 

Must you always wait half-a-season and move guys up, if you feel like it. Or go ahead and have Baxendale, Burdi, Reed, even Gordon START at a higher lev. You can always go backwards for a tune-up.

 

But then, we are bad if we do bring up Meyer, or Kepler, or Buxton (or Hicks, or before that Gomez) and watch them be overmatched on the major league level, not getting proper coaching advice (?) and having to go back down and be a superstar in the minors.

 

What is the TRUE development answer. Let the guys play together and win in the minors (as they have been) and then lose in the majors?

 

And, yes, the Twins did overpay for some rotation fodder. They answered the call of the fans who thought the organization was stingy and keeping large profits for their own purses. And then we turn around and bash them that they didn't get the right guys...and overpaid. That's a tough one. Who wanted to come to Minnesota and pitch after the dreadful four seasons of losing. Will a player go somewhere if they are rewarded handsomely, rather than just give a contract that they could probably get anywhere else? Damned if front office does, or doesn't.

 

Ryan knows what he does right. Molitor is a solid manager. We need to fear, it seems, someone totally different coming in and really throwing everything out the window and starting all over and maybe making a shambles of things, or if they come in too comfortable, then it is still the same-old same-old with different names.

 

Hey, did you catch all the new foods at Target Field and the new bar in centerfield. Plus concerts now at the park. And no lines!

 

 

[nicksaviking]

 

 

 

I believe that the time for this youth movement was after the 2012 season. The team was 66-96 and the top pitcher in the rotation was Scott Diamond. That's when you declare youth movement and you trade off anything of value that isn't nailed down. 

2016... So we were "THIS CLOSE" to making the playoffs in 2015. And for the first time since 2012... 

 

The TEAM GETS YOUNGER!!! 

 

I'm Ok with a youth movement... there was no reason it couldn't have started earlier and why wait until we get "THIS CLOSE" to dip your toe in the youth pool? 

 

I agree that they were way too late to do the rebuild, they should have started the youth movement after 2010, I know they won the division, but there were a lot of us who said the end was at hand after that season. Still, just because they were late with the youth movement and turning over the vets, they still need to do it.

 

I also don't think the team was anywhere near close to a contender last year, the whole season seemed like a mirage, even when they were winning. Record-wise sure, just not ready to compete.

 

I'm good getting vets once we know what we need, but they have to flush out the system first. We still don't know which of these young guys are going to be capable players, in my view that has to happen first or we're just blindly guessing, trying to fill future holes. Will we need bullpen help in 2017-18? We're not going to know until we see what Burdi, Chargois, Melotakis and Rogers can do. Does the rotation need another stable veteran? Who knows, we haven't seen nearly enough of Meyer, Berrios and Duffey and May is still banished to the pen.

 

Will we need a catcher? Well uh, yeah, that's a given, go find a catcher if one is available.

[tobi0040]

 

This is fun but I think you’re too pessimistic on this.

 

I agree that few of these guys have a ton of value but I think many of these contracts would be assumed by another team (and that’s really what we’re talking about here – is this contract so bad that if a guy was waived, no one would claim him and the Twins would eat the salary?) With Milone and Fien we will get to see this today since they are going through waivers right now –the very definition of “would someone take on this contract.” (For the record I think Milone will maybe be taken and Fien will certainly not be).

 

As for the rest, teams won’t give up tons/any of value but I think that many more of the contracts would be taken and some you’d get something for them.  Let’s rank them from most to least tradable (I did the full contract because that matters – I didn’t include buyouts because it’s complicated and I don’t think they materially affect any of these):
-----------------
Park 4 years/$12 million: The Twins could clearly get a lot for Park since right handed power is solid, he’s on a fantastic contract and he’s played a decent 1B so isn’t just a DH. They won’t do it but maybe they should? VERDICT: A nice shiny trade chip.

 

Dozier 3 years/$18 million: Dozier would certainly be tradable, you’re underselling him based on some slumping. He hasn't played very well in the first month but he's four months removed from the all-star game and is a 2B who plays decent D and has pop on a pretty team-friendly contract. You would get something interesting for him for sure (not elite prospects but someone you could realistically project playing in the majors some day). VERDICT: You can certainly get something for him but you’d be selling low. Wait til the deadline – a streaking Dozier could be one of the more interesting guys on the market.

 

Perkins 2 years/$12.8 million: This may be off because I’m treating it as if he comes back healthy. This is tough because he's injured and no one trades for an injured pitcher. But before the season he would certainly be tradable and if he came back and had two good outings he would be as well. He's another guy with a team-friendly contract. He may not close for other teams but a healthy Perkins is an asset many teams would take. Hopefully he can be healthy for the deadline because I’d love to see the Twins get something for him and set the path for younger guys. VERDICT: Incomplete. As is now, some team would take the contract because if he comes back, he can be a back-end bullpen piece. With a short demonstration of health, almost every team would grab him on waivers. If he has a good month, he’s a very nice trade piece.

 

Plouffe 1 year/$7.2 million + arb: Plouffe's contract would also certainly be taken on by some other team. He's a league average player at a position where many teams have issues. Plus his contract this year is decent and you can let him be a free agent next year if you don’t want him so he carries no long-term risk. The Twins haven't moved him yet because they're hoping his value will go up, not because he has no value. I’d almost move him ahead of Perkins – only reason not to is that relievers can be fit into almost any team while a team would have to have a need at 3B/1B to want Plouffe. VERDICT: You can get something for him but it might not be much.

 

Jepsen 1 year/$5.3 million: He hasn’t been amazing of course but he’s a reliever with a history of success and someone would easily take on this contract. Like Plouffe, you can walk away end of the season so there’s no long term commitment for a guy who has been a legitimate bullpen weapon. His contract would be taken off the Twins hands. VERDICT: Contract would be picked up, you might get a long-shot prospect? Probably not.

 

Santana 3 years/$40.5 million: Santana is a tougher call just because of how much time he has left on the deal. He’s a veteran starter signed at a reasonable rate for a 3rd/4th starter for only two more years after this one – you’d think some wealthy team with pitching needs (the Angels? The White Sox?) would be willing to take him off the Twins hands. I don’t think you’d get much/anything for him but someone would take the contract. VERDICT: Contract would be picked off waivers and you might be able to trade him for something small but no one is giving you anything amazing for him.

 

Suzuki 1 year/$6 million: Suzuki is an interesting case. The salary isn't prohibitively large but there isn't a team that wants him as their #1 (including the Twins, who just had no other better options and are hamstrung by JRM's struggles) and most teams either have a veteran #2 or have a young developing #2. That said, I imagine a team that had a starting catcher get injured would gladly take on Suzuki as their new backup (he’s better than the Juan Centeno/Chris Hermann types). Third catcher is a pretty low bar to clear and while the salary isn't cheap, Suzuki is a vet a team would feel comfortable with in a pinch and there’s no long term commitment. But agreed that it would be hard to get anything for him and you'd need someone to have a need. VERDICT: Need the right injury situation but you could get at least three bags of balls for him.

 

Nolasco 2 years/$24 million: This is where I think we move over to pretty untradeable guys. It’s strange to put Ricky ahead of Hughes but he’s only got one more year after this on the deadline. I think it would be very tough to get someone to take this contract but if he had another month of relative success, some pitching-needy team might be willing to take him on as a back of the rotation starter they only have one more year to commit to. That’s pretty tough though, $12 million next year is killer. VERDICT: Not very likely and there’s no way you’re getting anything for him.

 

Hughes 4 years/$48.8 mill: Hard to see someone taking Hughes. Four years is a long time and he’s already 30 and has over a year of struggling and diminishing velocity. He could be moved to the pen but he’d have to be elite to justify spending that money and there’s no indication he would be. Pretty untradeable. VERDICT: Not a chance, best path might be demonstrating some value as a reliever in the future.

 

Mauer 3 years/$69 million: Crazy that perhaps the best player on this list is the least tradable guy but as a 1B with little power, he’d be a tough sell. If he had one year left, there’s a decent chance some super rich team would value his OBP and bring him aboard to cover an injury but with three years left, this contract is the Twins. Which I’m glad about. #joemauerforlife VERDICT: Nope.

 

Thoughts on these? Not a ringing endorsement of the Twins free agent moves but you could just shed the salary easier on these than we might think.

 

I think there is literally zero chance Nolasco, Santana, Suzuki, Mauer, or Hughes find a taker at full contract.  None whatsoever.  Mauer is owed too much for too long.  Ervin is a guy who tested for PED’s so nobody knows what to make of him.  And Hughes has had a velo dip the last 1.5 years so going out four more is risky.  A good litmus test on these would be what would these guys get on the FA market right now.  If the contract is drastically lower than they are owed, then nobody would by definition take their contract in a trade (unless you are also taking a bad one back).

 

Then you have a few, if they came back healthy and were on a good streak maybe, Perkins and Dozier.  But probably not Dozier, I think he has red flags abound right now about his health.  A good month probably does not put those to bed.  I put Jepsen and Plouffe in the probably not category.   Park would net something real nice, no doubt. 

Edited May 6, 2016 by tobi0040

[ThejacKmp]

 

I think there is literally zero chance Nolasco, Santana, Suzuki, Mauer, or Hughes find a taker at full contract.  None whatsoever.  Mauer is owed too much for too long.  Ervin is a guy who tested for PED’s so nobody knows what to make of him.  And Hughes has had a velo dip the last 1.5 years so going out four more is risky.  A good litmus test on these would be what would these guys get on the FA market right now.  If the contract is drastically lower than they are owed, then nobody would by definition take their contract in a trade (unless you are also taking a bad one back).

 

Then you have a few, if they came back healthy and were on a good streak maybe, Perkins and Dozier.  But probably not Dozier, I think he has red flags abound right now about his health.  A good month probably does not put those to bed.  I put Jepsen and Plouffe in the probably not category.   Park would net something real nice, no doubt. 

 

PEDs don't really matter. It hasn't stopped Melky Cabrera from getting interest. Teams have little to lose - if the guy gets suspended they don't have to pay him. It's a no-lose situation.

 

The point about the FA market is fine for the offseason but right now, there aren't a ton of options. If you're the White Sox looking for a replacement for John Danks or the Angels for Garret Richards, you don't have good internal options and there aren't a ton of pitchers available. The Twins would give you Nolasco for free and Santana for very little. Nolasco is crap and we agree no one will want him but Santana is a pretty decent starter. You might not resign the length of his deal today (though you might, he was lights out end of last year) but you will see it as a slight overpay to fix an in-season problem. It's the basic tenet behind why the Twins kept Plouffe and why the Phillies waited to trade Hamels til midseason last year - teams will pay more in-season than off-season because they have fewer options and more pressure to fill a hole and compete.

 

You're crazy if you think Dozier doesn't have value. Decent contract, young guy with power at a non-power position. I see nothing about him having an injury, I don't know where that is coming from. His value isn't based on a hot streak, he's just a guy it makes sense to wait to see if he can build value. He would get you a nice piece right now but he might get you something much nicer down the road.

 

With the others, I think we're confusing "has good trade value" with "someone would pick this guy up on waivers and take on the contract." If put on waivers Park, Plouffe, Dozier, Perkins, Jepsen and likely Santana would be grabbed by someone. As far as having actual trade value, I think the first four definitely have it and the last two likely get you a pretty bad prospect.

 

Remember that Chris Hermann, Sam Fuld and Drew Butera all fetched back something pretty decent. I know they were really cheap but they got actual prospects. You can give away salary easily.

[tobi0040]

 

PEDs don't really matter. It hasn't stopped Melky Cabrera from getting interest. Teams have little to lose - if the guy gets suspended they don't have to pay him. It's a no-lose situation.

 

The point about the FA market is fine for the offseason but right now, there aren't a ton of options. If you're the White Sox looking for a replacement for John Danks or the Angels for Garret Richards, you don't have good internal options and there aren't a ton of pitchers available. The Twins would give you Nolasco for free and Santana for very little. Nolasco is crap and we agree no one will want him but Santana is a pretty decent starter. You might not resign the length of his deal today (though you might, he was lights out end of last year) but you will see it as a slight overpay to fix an in-season problem. It's the basic tenet behind why the Twins kept Plouffe and why the Phillies waited to trade Hamels til midseason last year - teams will pay more in-season than off-season because they have fewer options and more pressure to fill a hole and compete.

 

You're crazy if you think Dozier doesn't have value. Decent contract, young guy with power at a non-power position. I see nothing about him having an injury, I don't know where that is coming from. His value isn't based on a hot streak, he's just a guy it makes sense to wait to see if he can build value. He would get you a nice piece right now but he might get you something much nicer down the road.

 

With the others, I think we're confusing "has good trade value" with "someone would pick this guy up on waivers and take on the contract." If put on waivers Park, Plouffe, Dozier, Perkins, Jepsen and likely Santana would be grabbed by someone. As far as having actual trade value, I think the first four definitely have it and the last two likely get you a pretty bad prospect.

 

Remember that Chris Hermann, Sam Fuld and Drew Butera all fetched back something pretty decent. I know they were really cheap but they got actual prospects. You can give away salary easily.

 

We are not on the same page regarding the value of these guys.  I just know that I have heard countless times.  We need to get rid of Nolasco, or Mauer, or Fein, or Milone, or Ervin but nobody will take the contract.  At some point if I am the owner I am asking the GM, why do you keep signing guys that no other team wants?  Why did you convince me four months ago we should tender Milone, now we can’t find another team in the league to take him, etc.

 

With Ervin, I think it is the combination of he was durable, then PED’s, now is not anymore.  People probably question his durability now .  And Hermann, Butera, etc. were not making any money or on long term deals.

[tobi0040]

We also DFA'd Graham and O'Rourke. La velle speculating Rosario to AAA

[deanlambrecht]

 

There are things that Molitor does that drive me a little crazy.

I didn't understand his statement that Sano won't play 3B at all (I know he changed his mind).

I don't understand what took him so long to play other players while the squad was losing 9 games to start the season.

I don't understand why Nunez is seemingly the guy with the short end of the infield stick when his bat has been clearly productive while others who are not productive are getting the preferred playing time.

I don't understand why Dozier continues to bat at the top of the lineup instead of in the middle.

I don't understand how Park can sit 4 games in a row in Milwaukee and DC

and I don't understand the use of Kepler, Polanco and Meyer.

However... I'm not going to call for his head because he doesn't do what I want him to do. Honestly... most of you fine folks wouldn't do what I wanted you to do and even my idolized Joe Maddon wouldn't do everything I wanted him to do and eventually you just run out of managers that you are happy with until they give me the job.

As Seth Said... Molitor's results were an over performance last year and an equal under performance so far this year. So what does he get credit/blame for?

Now... As For Terry Ryan... This is where the buck stops in my opinion.

He had an over achieving team that came close last year. The Twins surprised everyone... It was a young team in comparison to most but it came close and there is talent on the roster. So what did he do this off season?

Here are my list of grievances:

1. He made the team even younger!!! This is what you do when you are rebuilding... you get younger. We got Younger in CF and Younger at Backup Catcher and much younger in RF and based on MLB Experience... We got younger at DH as well since Park is brand spanking new in this league. We took a young team and made it younger and said go win us a pennant.

2. He didn't learn from his past CF Mistakes... Perhaps the most puzzling thing to me is this. Why would he willingly make Buxton the opening day starter after he clearly struggled in 2015? And why would he do this when he made the same mistake with Hicks and made the same mistake with Hicks again? And each time he didn't provide an adequate safety net.

3. He didn't address the bullpen... The bullpen had serious issues in 2015 in my opinion and those issues were at the key positions. We didn't know what Perkins had left in him at the end of 2015... Jepsen was great filling in for Perkins but he was a vet with a pretty clear track record of a guy who was on the fringe of a set up position and if any of you were wondering why May wasn't really considered for a starting position... in my opinion... you can look right here. The bullpen needed help when May was moved to the bullpen in 2015 and that's why he was moved there and the bullpen still needed that help going into 2016. Ryan needed to add two quality bullpen arms that could provide insurance for Perkins and push everyone down a notch in the pecking order and by doing so... strengthening the bullpen.

4. He watched the entire American League improve around him... Everybody got better and we got younger... The American League was going to be a fight every single night and he decided that younger and the mistakes that come with younger players was going to help us win those fights.

5. He doesn't seem to be on the same page as his Manager and Rash changes on Cinco De Mayo suggest that he didn't see this coming.

BTW... He gets credit for the Park signing. So the off season wasn't totally bad.

 

Yes.   I'd add only the Pohlad's culpability to this analysis.   Terry Ryan and the Pohlad family, in that order, are the biggest problems on this team.   Jim Pohlad's comments last night lead me to conclude that he fundamentally misunderstands the game of baseball.   I never thought I'd miss his father's presence, and maybe I actually don't, but I think he understood the game better than his sons.   We need an owner who gets it, and we don't have one.

 

Edit to add:   it's far too early to know whether Molitor is the right guy, as the OP points out.

[tobi0040]

 

Yes.   I'd add only the Pohlad's culpability to this analysis.   Terry Ryan and the Pohlad family, in that order, are the biggest problems on this team.   Jim Pohlad's comments last night lead me to conclude that he fundamentally misunderstands the game of baseball.   I never thought I'd miss his father's presence, and maybe I actually don't, but I think he understood the game better than his sons.   We need an owner who gets it, and we don't have one.

 

Edit to add:   it's far too early to know whether Molitor is the right guy, as the OP points out.

 

I think Jim has no idea what he is doing.  None.

[chopper0080]

 

 

Ryan knows what he does right. Molitor is a solid manager. We need to fear, it seems, someone totally different coming in and really throwing everything out the window and starting all over and maybe making a shambles of things, or if they come in too comfortable, then it is still the same-old same-old with different names.

 

Hey, did you catch all the new foods at Target Field and the new bar in centerfield. Plus concerts now at the park. And no lines!

 

I don't believe any change the Twins could make would result in anything as disappointing as we have experienced over the past 6 years.  What is there to fear?  Another 90 loss season?  A shamble of things?  Things already are in shambles.  

 

I am curious what you believe makes Molitor "solid".  At best he is a league average manager.

[alarp33]

http://www.1500espn.com/news/2016/05/zulgad-talk-about-a-total-system-failure-pohlads-message-is-latest-blunder-by-twins/

 

I don't particularly care for Zulgad, but I thought he hit the nail on the head here... in case anyone is looking for a non- these comments from Pohlad were great! angle

[jimmer]

I'm sorry, but this is a poorly constructed team.  That's on Ryan.  Molitor has made a lot of boneheaded moves, but Ryan has made some questionable calls too.

[jimmer]

Seth, I thought I read an article by you before the season started or maybe it was just some comments, that said you thought we would be serious division contenders this season.  Am I remembering correctly?

[Otto von Ballpark]

The players are to blame. Specifically, Murphy, O'Rourke, and Graham, apparently.

[Winston Smith]

 

Easy, the Padres.  Perpetually having top picks but never having even decent teams for much longer than the Twins have lacked decent teams.

In the second go around for Terry the Padres have 20 more wins than the Twins.

[adorduan]

 

Even more nuts is the way he has treated D. Santana, Rosario, and Dozier. They get treated way better than they should from him. He seems to like the scrappy athlete type, and will give them every chance in the world and put them in the best of situations for success, though unwanted.

What the hell has D Santana done wrong to earn your scorn? 

[tobi0040]

It will be interesting how the next 110 games play out.

 

For instance, if They think may is a long term starter, what better time to make the switch?

[jimmer]

'I asked Pohlad why he has resisted the urge to make wholesale changes in organizational philosophy.

 

“I don’t know what the difference in philosophy that people would like to see,” he said. “Everybody had universally high expectations for this season relative to last season. We bought into that. I still don’t see any flaw in that. It’s just system failure.”'

 

Everyone had universally high expectations?

 

And, BTW, there were huge flaws into buying into that. If the owner(s) and management bought into that, they weren't looking too deeply at the team assembled and how the numbers they had last year didn't support the record they had last year.

Edited May 6, 2016 by jimmer

[howeda7]

Meddling owners are bad. But so is utter indifference. The Pohlads clearly could give two bits whether they own the team or not. There is a provision in the stadium legislation penalizing them if they sell in the first 10 years. The County should waive it. Sell to someone who gives a crap. 

[Champuckett]

This is a tough era to be a Twins fan.

 

The comments by the owner do a great job of exemplifying this.  He does nothing but instill feelings of doom and dread for our future.  It may have been better for him to stay in the shadows and collect his money.

[alarp33]

What the hell has D Santana done wrong to earn your scorn?

 

Umm, besides being terrible? I'm sure he's a nice guy?

[Sam Morley]

 

This is the Twins.  The article is well written, but easy to write because this is what the Twins do.  They hire and stay the course.  They do not make changes, especially changes that switch directions.  The manager and the GM have security.  We all know that.  Our complaints are not because we expect change, but because we want some change.  We want a different approach.  And it is not Molitor that most of us question - it is TR. 

What change? and why? A different GM, right? Maybe a different manager, not from inside? I do want some clarity here. People want change because of the last four or five seasons of losing? I hear people say no other team would tolerate so many successive seasons of losing without making changes in management. 

 

Or, do people want change want it because of specific mistakes made by management?

 

I said, earlier in this thread that my only big criticism of TR is when the team was good, he didn't do enough (anything) to make it better. It seemed like we were always one or two pieces away from being competitive in the post season, but the management was content with division titles. 

 

To me, the previous four-five seasons of losing are a function of rebuilding the minor league system. I think it's well worth enduring the losing seasons for the result of a stocked farm system. I think this is the way to achieve sustained success. 

 

I've come to appreciate the Twins' "family-style" approach to management. It makes me feel like I'm rooting for real people, not some abstract idea of the Twins represented by a jersey. The team/organization are the actual people that compose it. TR is a part of the Twins. Ron Gardenhire is a part of the Twins. Paul Molitor is a part of the Twins. Joe Mauer is a part of the Twins. All the former players and Minnesotans on the broadcast crews are part of the Twins. I don't just want to see the Twins win the World Series, I want to see the people who are the Twins win the World Series. Don't get me wrong, I'd be very happy to see the Twins win the World Series with any collection of players and management, but for me it would be much much better to see Joe Mauer win the World Series with the Twins.

 

From what I can tell, the Twins family/loyalty approach toward management does extend to the players as well. If anything, I wish it did even more so. I think loyalty results in a better product, and I think in this era it's really difficult to foster. I think the loyalty makes the players feel like they are a part of something. I think it leads to them making stronger and more lasting connections in the community. Players seem to like being a part of the organization so much that in the rare event someone gets treated with some measure of disloyalty, they are seriously offended for years. Papi has held a serious grudge his whole career, and Carlos Gomez too. 

 

Speaking of Papi, there's your specific mistake.

 

Anyway, I try to remind myself that when I root for a team, I'm rooting for the players who are on that team as much as the colors and the history of the team. I'm glad the Twins make this easier. I reason that the players are playing for the team, for each other, and that they want to win for themselves, for each other, for the team- all the more so if the team has treated them with respect. I don't think the players are playing for me, a fan. The team plays because that's what it does. It doesn't play for me. It's not trying to win for me, for the fans. 

 

As for the notion of firing Molitor, mid-season or after: they won't, and that's good. Even if it were a good decision baseball-wise (which it probably isn't) it would be dishonorable and disgraceful. It would be extremely disrespectful to Molitor, a Hall-of-Famer, a former Twin, and a Minnesota native. I don't think, in the grand scheme of things, any management direction alternative to Molitor is worth the disrespect. Personally, my preference at the time of the search for Gardy's replacement was Mientkewitcz, but whatever, Molitor is the guy, and he's fine, and he's an all-time great, so that's cool too- all the better if it's him that brings home a title. 

 

I think the Twins will return to winning baseball in the next few seasons, and I think they are building to stay a winning team for several seasons beyond. I think watching those teams is going to be extremely gratifying and fun because they will be comprised of players we have watched the organization draft and develop, and it will be fun to have a hall of famer minnesota native at the helm. As for TR, I hope he's still the guy when his work comes to fruition, and this time I hope he's ready and willing to make the little tweaks and additions necessary to win it all. I'll have to reserve my judgement of him until then.