Article: Total Support: Why Jim Pohlad's Unsatisfying Comments May Be Wise

[Mr. Brooks]

I am far, far, far from a TR fan but I would like to make a couple points below:

 

1. The Dodgers took on Fien, yay!

 

2. It's hard to fault him for the Perkins deal, at the time it was a very "Team friendly" type extension and Perkins was one of the better closers in the league (and continued to be) It's hard to predict an otherwise healthy guy would suddenly get the injury bug.

 

3. If Mauer keeps up his production, it's not inconceivable that he hypothetically "could" be moved. He is only signed for two more years after this and worse contracts have been moved before. However, the Twins shouldn't trade Mauer, nor would they due to his NTC. Either way, I refuse to fault TR for signing Mauer long term.

 

4. Plouffe could easily be traded, his salary isn't cost prohibitive at all really, again, what is TR supposed to do, let Plouffe walk?

 

5. Ditto with Jepsen.

 

Now the Nolasco, Suzuki and Hughes (extension) are all complete disasters as contracts no doubt, and the Santana one is closer to "meh" so I agree with you on those. Overall, TR's main problem is failing to realize when to "go for it" and when to "sell it all", in addition to actually trying to fix the bullpen, sign or trade for a REAL ace or stop relying on guys like Suzuki.

1) Agree completely. He throws 95 and had some bad luck and SSS contribute to his results this year.

But, even if he turns it around in LA, who cares?

This team has no chance to compete this year. Fien had no chance of contributing to the next contending team. And with his awful start, it would take months to maybe flip him for a lottery ticket in July.

But, his spot should have went to Chargois, not another older filler like Kintzler.

 

2) The Perkins deal was fine. Where you can blame Terry is for not trading Perkins when he had value. Perennial 90 loss teams have no need for a closer, and it was highly unlikely he'd be a valuable player by the time we were ready to compete.

The shelf life for elite closers, outside of Rivera, is pretty short.

I'd say half this board was begging Terry to trade him at the time, so it's not hindsight.

 

3) I'm not sure worse contracts have ever been moved, and I don't think even a full year of this production is going to convince anyone to take that contract.

But, it's a moot point. Mauer would never agree to a trade.

 

4) Personally, yes, I would have traded Plouffe for whatever I could get, even if it's basically nothing.

Sano is a potential superstar, and you build your team around him.

 

5) Jepsen is fine, but he should be a depth guy. A 6th inning guy, not a late inning guy.

 

The Hughes extension is maybe the worst decision I've seen an executive make in these parts, and I've lived through the Joe Smith deal and David Kahn, so that's saying a lot.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Mr. Brooks

[tobi0040]

 

I am far, far, far from a TR fan but I would like to make a couple points below:

 

1. The Dodgers took on Fien, yay!

 

2. It's hard to fault him for the Perkins deal, at the time it was a very "Team friendly" type extension and Perkins was one of the better closers in the league (and continued to be) It's hard to predict an otherwise healthy guy would suddenly get the injury bug.

 

3. If Mauer keeps up his production, it's not inconceivable that he hypothetically "could" be moved. He is only signed for two more years after this and worse contracts have been moved before. However, the Twins shouldn't trade Mauer, nor would they due to his NTC. Either way, I refuse to fault TR for signing Mauer long term.

 

4. Plouffe could easily be traded, his salary isn't cost prohibitive at all really, again, what is TR supposed to do, let Plouffe walk?

 

5. Ditto with Jepsen.

 

Now the Nolasco, Suzuki and Hughes (extension) are all complete disasters as contracts no doubt, and the Santana one is closer to "meh" so I agree with you on those. Overall, TR's main problem is failing to realize when to "go for it" and when to "sell it all", in addition to actually trying to fix the bullpen, sign or trade for a REAL ace or stop relying on guys like Suzuki.

 

With regard to Plouffe.   It sounds counter-intuitive, but the Twins would have been better off letting Plouffe walk for nothing and put Sano at 3B.  They would gain 3 wins by not having Sano play RF and pick up a huge edge offensively at 3B (I think Sano is struggling in part because of shaky play in RF).

 

I am guessing we could have traded Plouffe for a reliever.  Some dispute that. But had we shed ourselves of that $7M, we could have sure as heck signed one.  Good reliever plus Sano not in RF would be a team that wins more games than Plouffe at 3B, no reliever, and Sano in RF in my opinion.

 

As Mr. Brooks noted above, it sounds like we shopped a guy around the league and could not find much for him.  So then why are we holding onto this guy, who is 30, and moving a 22 year old franchise cornerstone to RF?  We have this completely backwards.   Just as we have May to the pen so we can hold onto Milone, who also has no value around the league

Edited May 10, 2016 by tobi0040

[DaveW]

 

With regard to Plouffe.   It sounds counter-intuitive, but the Twins would have been better off letting Plouffe walk for nothing and put Sano at 3B.  They would gain 3 wins by not having Sano play RF and pick up a huge edge offensively at 3B (I think Sano is struggling in part because of shaky play in RF).

 

I am guessing we could have traded Plouffe for a reliever.  Some dispute that. But had we shed ourselves of that $7M, we could have sure as heck signed one.  Good reliever plus Sano not in RF would be a team that wins more games than Plouffe at 3B, no reliever, and Sano in RF in my opinion.

 

As Mr. Brooks noted above, it sounds like we shopped a guy around the league and could not find much for him.  So then why are we holding onto this guy, who is 30, and moving a 22 year old franchise cornerstone to RF?  We have this completely backwards.   Just as we have May to the pen so we can hold onto Milone, who also has no value around the league

I agree 100% that Plouffe should have been traded for anything resembling anything of value.Even if that is a single B or B- prospect or two.

I have a hard time agreeing with the thought they should have just "let him walk" however.

 

 Sano should have went into the season as the third baseman, but of course here we are, hopefully a contender can "lose" a 3rd baseman soon, and the Twins can ship off Plouffe and get something decent in return.

[DaveW]

 

 

1) Agree completely. He throws 95 and had some bad luck and SSS contribute to his results this year.
But, even if he turns it around in LA, who cares?
This team has no chance to compete this year. Fien had no chance of contributing to the next contending team. And with his awful start, it would take months to maybe flip him for a lottery ticket in July.
But, his spot should have went to Chargois, not another older filler like Kintzler.

2) The Perkins deal was fine. Where you can blame Terry is for not trading Perkins when he had value. Perennial 90 loss teams have no need for a closer, and it was highly unlikely he'd be a valuable player by the time we were ready to compete.
The shelf life for elite closers, outside of Rivera, is pretty short.
I'd say half this board was begging Terry to trade him at the time, so it's not hindsight.

3) I'm not sure worse contracts have ever been moved, and I don't think even a full year of this production is going to convince anyone to take that contract.
But, it's a moot point. Mauer would never agree to a trade.

4) Personally, yes, I would have traded Plouffe for whatever I could get, even if it's basically nothing.
Sano is a potential superstar, and you build your team around him.

5) Jepsen is fine, but he should be a depth guy. A 6th inning guy, not a late inning guy.

The Hughes extension is maybe the worst decision I've seen an executive make in these parts, and I've lived through the Joe Smith deal and David Kahn, so that's saying a lot.

1. Agreed. I have no issue with them letting Fien go at this point, as you alluded too, having Fien on this team currently makes no sense.

 

2. Good points regarding trades of closers. You think the Twins would have learned this after the Capps for Ramos disaster.

 

3. I would argue that the Matt Kemp and Prince Fielder contracts were/are worse. But yeah, it's a moot point. I still maintain that if you have a .420 OBP, .830 OPS Mauer, somebody would "take" that contract.

 

4. Agreed.

 

5. 6th inning guy is a little harsh IMO, I think he can be a solid 7th inning guy (like last year essentially) but counting on him to be your closer or shutdown 8th inning guy is a recipe for disappointment.

[alarp33]

 

I am far, far, far from a TR fan but I would like to make a couple points below:

 

1. The Dodgers took on Fien, yay!

 

2. It's hard to fault him for the Perkins deal, at the time it was a very "Team friendly" type extension and Perkins was one of the better closers in the league (and continued to be) It's hard to predict an otherwise healthy guy would suddenly get the injury bug.

 

3. If Mauer keeps up his production, it's not inconceivable that he hypothetically "could" be moved. He is only signed for two more years after this and worse contracts have been moved before. However, the Twins shouldn't trade Mauer, nor would they due to his NTC. Either way, I refuse to fault TR for signing Mauer long term.

 

4. Plouffe could easily be traded, his salary isn't cost prohibitive at all really, again, what is TR supposed to do, let Plouffe walk?

 

5. Ditto with Jepsen.

 

Now the Nolasco, Suzuki and Hughes (extension) are all complete disasters as contracts no doubt, and the Santana one is closer to "meh" so I agree with you on those. Overall, TR's main problem is failing to realize when to "go for it" and when to "sell it all", in addition to actually trying to fix the bullpen, sign or trade for a REAL ace or stop relying on guys like Suzuki.

 

1) I'm not going to give him credit for this, but it worked out fine. 

 

2) I don't know about this.  I remember being pretty confused by the extension at the time.  The Twins were about to lose 90 games for the 4th year in a row, Perkins was like 31, and had 2 full years left on his contract.  

 

3) I don't fault anyone for Mauer's extension, injuries happen.  But wasn't it Bill Smith that signed it?