Meyer optioned back to AAA

[Rosterman]

Meyer's fate is all in the hands of Meyer. He will be out of options at some point, so the Twins WILL have to keep him. Right now, he got a modest taste of the big leagues and knows more what he has to work on in the minors. He will get a couple more opportunities to build and have a strong September call-up. And, if nothing else, he does well in the minors that Twins have a potential tack-on in a trade situation.

 

Or they have a middle-of-the-order hard-throwing starter.

 

Graham, who I was surprised wasn't starting at Rochester at first, is the long-guy the Twins need in the bullpen (along with Milone, perhaps). But his clock is ticking to Saturday when Santana returns.

 

I jsut wonder what position player the Twins could call up that would make it worthwhile if they do finally send out Rosario (shades of Danny Santana 2015). If Plouffe is back at third, I would just as soon see an outfield of Sano Santana Arcia - no matter how bad that sounds defensively -- than having any of those guys being bench jockeys right now. There is some momentum in their bats and I want to see them run with it for 20 or so games, if Molitor can figure out the perfect lineup that DOESN'T have Dozier batting second, perhaps.

 

I actually would love to see one of the no-names catching at Rochester get a call-up. But aside from moving Perkins to the 60-day, which they must sooner or later, there is no one to get rid of on the 40-man not named Pat Dean.

 

How did the Twins get in this mess!

 

CASEY FIEN WATCH!

[laloesch]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:10 PM, beckmt said:

Molitor seems to have his favorites,  that is an issue.  TR may have to have a sitdown and tell Paul that it is time to let the youngsters struggle for the future.  If Molitor cannot buy into this, it may be time for Dougie.

 

Agreed and if that's the case, sooner rather than later.  This is not a playoff bound team but Molitor is managing like they are.  Paul...  Let the youngsters play win or lose.  

[bluechipper]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 3:24 PM, Seth Stohs said:

He was at about 62 pitches through 2.1 innings... Not sure that he "easily" could have finished 5. 

Well, 2.2 innings but yeah. 35 pitches or so to get through a couple more innings isn't a huge ask. Either way, I'd rather see Alex Meyer work to get out of it than have Tommy Milone come in to save the day.

[Twodogs]

I don't think they ever should have even called up Meyer, he had a couple of decent starts in AAA, they should have left him there to get more confidence and more work in.  I think they jumped the gun a little on him.  they need to send him back and put him back in the rotation down there and see how he does.

[Mike Sixel]

Not one piece of this outcome surprises me. Disappoints, yes, but not surprised.

[d-mac]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 5:03 AM, USAFChief said:

At risk of repeating myself...he doesn't have the pitches, delivery, or command to go through a big league lineup every 5 days.

 

We won't know that until he gets a chance to prove himself.

[Riverbrian]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:38 PM, Twodogs said:

I don't think they ever should have even called up Meyer, he had a couple of decent starts in AAA, they should have left him there to get more confidence and more work in.  I think they jumped the gun a little on him.  they need to send him back and put him back in the rotation down there and see how he does.

 

Bingo

 

This is really the heart of the matter in my opinion. He shouldn't have been called up. Not saying he did or didn't deserve to be called up. I'm saying based on his handling... he shouldn't have been. 

 

Once he was called up... the head scratching really began. 

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:32 PM, Rosterman said:

 

 

I actually would love to see one of the no-names catching at Rochester get a call-up. But aside from moving Perkins to the 60-day, which they must sooner or later, there is no one to get rid of on the 40-man not named Pat Dean.

 

Who is the best defensive catcher in the system? Slot him in there. Really, we are basically putting out bad defensive catchers that also cannot hit a lick, so might as well at least put in someone who can be a wizard behind the plate. Suzuki is not the answer, and we need to make dang sure that he does not reach plate appearance option.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 3:34 PM, tobi0040 said:

Seth, when should he be brought back up?  After dominating Rochester? Because he has already done that. 

 

And how is he going to develop if he is yanked after a few base runners?   I polititely suggest he needs more than 3.2 innings every two weeks to grow as a pitcher.

 

He had 17 very good innings after a disastrous 2015 in which he was in the bullpen the final 4 months. I think if he has a strong month of May, they should make room for him. I can't say he's ahead of Berrios or Duffey at this stage, and with Santana coming back, he needs to keep starting. If he keeps pitching well and showing confidence and throwing strikes, he will force his way back. 

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:13 PM, spycake said:

Then why did they call him up, push back his scheduled start for a full week, and give him such limited innings in his time up here?  If you're trying to develop the guy as a power-pitching starter, why do you break up that development because you want an emergency reliever for a few days?

 

Why didn't they call up Graham last week to be the emergency reliever?  Or Dean?

 

They needed/wanted someone who could throw 3-6 innings. That takes Graham out. I guess they could have gone with Dean, though I don't think that would have made any sense. Milone was struggling to eat innings. There was an opportunity for Meyer there. But then two starters went on the DL. Things change. They have to adapt. 

[Jham]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 3:34 PM, tobi0040 said:

Seth, when should he be brought back up?  After dominating Rochester? Because he has already done that. 

 

And how is he going to develop if he is yanked after a few base runners?   I polititely suggest he needs more than 3.2 innings every two weeks to grow as a pitcher.

 

He does need more innings.  That's why he was sent down, right?  I also don't think it's fair to classify him as the future of this team.  He's definitely still just unfulfilled potential at this point.  

I would have liked to see him stay in for a few more batters last night.  I would have liked to see him get one more start to see if he would settle down and throw more strikes.  Me personally.  I don't deny that his pitching has tended to corroborate the concerns of scouts as to his lack if improvement and general wildness.  If I had watched a lot of Meyer, then maybe 2 2/3 may have been enough.

Even if we consider him part of the future future, he's not really part of the present future, so given his long break, given his 30+ pitches the other day, given the 60 pitches last night and the left handed hitter, and the fact that Milone was getting into last night's game anyway, I'm fine with the decision to yank Meyer.  I'd rather see him get another start, but to those who get to see him in AAA, maybe they had seen enough.  Oh well.  

 

I'm still confused as to where the 97-99 mph heat went.  According to some reports he'd re-found it.  I sure didn't see it.  His fastball runs laterally (flat), and he can't control it at 94.  These are huge issues.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:37 PM, bluechipper said:

Well, 2.2 innings but yeah. 35 pitches or so to get through a couple more innings isn't a huge ask. Either way, I'd rather see Alex Meyer work to get out of it than have Tommy Milone come in to save the day.

 

I would have liked to see Meyer get a shot to get out of the inning, one more batter. Maybe, but when a pitcher goes over 30 pitches in an inning, most organizations are pretty quick to get them out. And, I know people are down on him, but Milone is a solid big league starter. That was a good situation to bring him in. Didn't work out real well, but that's his role now.

[Jham]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:38 PM, Twodogs said:

I don't think they ever should have even called up Meyer, he had a couple of decent starts in AAA, they should have left him there to get more confidence and more work in.  I think they jumped the gun a little on him.  they need to send him back and put him back in the rotation down there and see how he does.

 

I agree, except I don't think we can say "they" jumped the gun.  I think it might have been more of a "he".  Molitor sure didn't seemed thrilled to have him.  Which is odd, cuz Gardy begged for Meyer a couple years ago, and TR said no.  It's a confusing situation all around.

[alarp33]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:49 PM, Seth Stohs said:

They needed/wanted someone who could throw 3-6 innings. That takes Graham out. I guess they could have gone with Dean, though I don't think that would have made any sense. Milone was struggling to eat innings. There was an opportunity for Meyer there. But then two starters went on the DL. Things change. They have to adapt. 

 

Milone only started 1 game after Meyer was called up, and he went 4.2 innings I believe.  Meyer didn't pitch in that game.  So I'm not really seeing how this argument is valid at all 

[bluechipper]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:50 PM, Jham said:

I'm still confused as to where the 97-99 mph heat went.  According to some reports he'd re-found it.  I sure didn't see it.  His fastball runs laterally (flat), and he can't control it at 94.  These are huge issues.

I saw it last night. He was consistently at 95 and he hit 98. You can't ask for much more than that, and it's got some decent movement on it too.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:54 PM, alarp33 said:

Milone only started 1 game after Meyer was called up, and he went 4.2 innings I believe.  Meyer didn't pitch in that game.  So I'm not really seeing how this argument is valid at all 

 

I remember specifically thinking that was a great game to get him in... but I think that before that game is when LaVelle suggested via Twitter that the Twins were going to give Meyer a start. Him not coming into that game in long relief was pretty much verification of that.

[Platoon]

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:46 PM, ShouldaCouldaWoulda said:

Who is the best defensive catcher in the system? Slot him in there. Really, we are basically putting out bad defensive catchers that also cannot hit a lick, so might as well at least put in someone who can be a wizard behind the plate. Suzuki is not the answer, and we need to make dang sure that he does not reach plate appearance option.

I have advocated this since last year. Why are we looking for a catcher who can hit .250 w/o power? .250, .230, .2schmirty! Just someone who can catch and throw, please!

[alarp33]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:59 PM, Seth Stohs said:

I remember specifically thinking that was a great game to get him in... but I think that before that game is when LaVelle suggested via Twitter that the Twins were going to give Meyer a start. Him not coming into that game in long relief was pretty much verification of that.

 

That game was on April 25th.  He started on May 3rd.  

[KGB]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 3:58 PM, KirbyDome89 said:

Fans get annoyed watching veteran/journeyman players with no upside and no future struggle at the major league level, especially when the leash is long (way too long in some cases). They also become annoyed when the prospects who are the future, are called up and then immediately sent down after a hiccup. If I'm going to watch failure at the MLB level I would rather it be the growing pains of young building blocks and not the struggles of stopgaps. 

 

IMO the root of the frustration seems to stem not from the plan to develop a championship team, but seemingly a lack thereof. 

I agree with the frustration, but I don't think the Twins are ready to bury the season as just a rebuilding year at this point.  Meyer needs to pitch innings, so he should be starting.  Santana, Nolasco & Hughes are all top 50 starters according to WAR (cheating a little bit - Hughes is 51).

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&page=2_30

 

Berrios and Duffey are also young and match the type of pitchers you would like to see in the rotation.  Meyer just happen to be on the outside for now.  Hopefully he pitches himself back up, I think he out of options next year so it would be good to see him more in the majors but I don't see the big problem with sending him down to prove the first month in AAA was the real thing.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:49 PM, Seth Stohs said:

They needed/wanted someone who could throw 3-6 innings. That takes Graham out. I guess they could have gone with Dean, though I don't think that would have made any sense.

Why wouldn't Dean make any sense as a long reliever in case of emergency last week?  You could always option him and recall Meyer if you wanted to bump Milone from his start this week.

 

Why bring up one of your best prospects, as he's in the very early stages of re-establishing himself after a tough season, to ride the pine for a week and then start well outside his usual schedule?

[TKGuy]

I think I'm more pissed about Meyer sitting for 9 days and then Polanco and Kepler not even playing. This all has to do with the mismanagement of the 40-man roster.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:52 PM, Seth Stohs said:

I would have liked to see Meyer get a shot to get out of the inning, one more batter. Maybe, but when a pitcher goes over 30 pitches in an inning, most organizations are pretty quick to get them out. 

Milone threw 33 pitches the very next inning!

 

Berrios threw 29 pitches in the third inning of his debut start last week, and I don't recall whether the Twins even had a reliever warming up (as I noted before, Neil Allen visited the mound after Berrios' back to back walks that inning, as opposed to getting on the bullpen phone after Meyer's back to back walks).

 

Last year, Molitor let our starting pitcher throw 30 or more pitches in an inning 20 times, with a max of Gibson at 39.  Duffey threw 31 in the first inning of his MLB debut.  Nolasco had a 36 pitch inning in his first start of 2015.

 

Meyer threw 28 pitches in the third last night, he had just retired the last two batters without too much difficulty, and the weaker part of the Astros order was coming up.  Seems fairly unusual to pull him at that exact moment.  It does seem the decision was made earlier than that, possibly influenced by a priority to not make Milone wait too long to get his work in.

[tobi0040]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 5:52 PM, spycake said:

Milone threw 33 pitches the very next inning!

 

Berrios threw 29 pitches in the third inning of his debut start last week, and I don't recall whether the Twins even had a reliever warming up (as I noted before, Neil Allen visited the mound after Berrios' back to back walks that inning, as opposed to getting on the bullpen phone after Meyer's back to back walks).

 

Last year, Molitor let our starting pitcher throw 30 or more pitches in an inning 20 times, with a max of Gibson at 39.  Duffey threw 31 in the first inning of his MLB debut.  Nolasco had a 36 pitch inning in his first start of 2015.

 

Meyer threw 28 pitches in the third last night, he had just retired the last two batters without too much difficulty, and the weaker part of the Astros order was coming up.  Seems fairly unusual to pull him at that exact moment.  It does seem the decision was made earlier than that, possibly influenced by a priority to not make Milone wait too long to get his work in.

 

Stop these facts, immediately.  It is getting in the way of making sense of all this.  We have a grand plan here to break in guys like Meyer and Kepler.  They were in need of a mental break in AAA and needed to sit in the dugout and learn the routine first.  Clubhouse card games.  Singing little red corvette, etc.  Then go back down to the minors.

 

Next year most teams will be doing the same thing with their top prospects.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 2:37 PM, markos said:

Two thoughts:

1) Has anyone heard if Meyer was under any particular pitch count restrictions? I wouldn't be shocked if he was under a pretty tight pitch count considering he has thrown all of 1 inning over the past two weeks. He finished with 65 pitches. Also, I know the Twins, at least with some of the minor league guys, have per-inning pitch counts, and if the pitcher exceeds that in any inning their night is over. Meyer threw 28 pitches without getting out of the 3rd inning. Maybe that was the reason he was pulled?

2) His velocity did drop quite a bit by the 3rd inning, relatively speaking. In the 1st, his fastball averaged 97, and he didn't have a single pitch below 96. In the 3rd, he only had a single fastball over 97, and by the end of the inning he was sitting at 94 - his slowest fastballs of the night. There is a school of thought that pitchers are more likely to injure themselves when they pitch tired, so maybe they were trying to protect him?

 

I obviously don't know anything. But it certainly wouldn't shock me, considering Meyer's arm problems over the years, that the Twins would have some strict guidelines to limit his usage and would have a quick hook in place when he reaches to limits or appears to be tiring. 

This is what I am hoping the decision was based on last night.  Although it still wouldn't explain why they called him up after only two starts, barely stretched out to 90-some pitches at AAA, then basically sat him for a week aside from his garbage time tune-up.  If pitch counts and health were such a concern, don't you think you'd want him on a more consistent and controlled schedule for longer than 2 starts before starting to mess with it?

[tobi0040]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 6:17 PM, spycake said:

This is what I am hoping the decision was based on last night.  Although it still wouldn't explain why they called him up after only two starts, barely stretched out to 90-some pitches at AAA, then basically sat him for a week aside from his garbage time tune-up.  If pitch counts and health were such a concern, don't you think you'd want him on a more consistent and controlled schedule for longer than 2 starts before starting to mess with it?

 

The only thing that can explain much of anything is our manager does not see the forest through the trees and/or feel any obligation whatsoever to develop young talent.  So he was force fed guys he didn't want to play, like Meyer and Kepler and he did as much as he could to not play them.  Probaby got his hand slapped by Terry, then gave Meyer a "start" and Kepler a game here or there. 

 

Our GM and coach have wildly different objectives and both of them are executing different plans.

 

 

[d-mac]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 2:37 PM, markos said:

Two thoughts:

1) Has anyone heard if Meyer was under any particular pitch count restrictions? I wouldn't be shocked if he was under a pretty tight pitch count considering he has thrown all of 1 inning over the past two weeks. He finished with 65 pitches. Also, I know the Twins, at least with some of the minor league guys, have per-inning pitch counts, and if the pitcher exceeds that in any inning their night is over. Meyer threw 28 pitches without getting out of the 3rd inning. Maybe that was the reason he was pulled?

2) His velocity did drop quite a bit by the 3rd inning, relatively speaking. In the 1st, his fastball averaged 97, and he didn't have a single pitch below 96. In the 3rd, he only had a single fastball over 97, and by the end of the inning he was sitting at 94 - his slowest fastballs of the night. There is a school of thought that pitchers are more likely to injure themselves when they pitch tired, so maybe they were trying to protect him?

 

I obviously don't know anything. But it certainly wouldn't shock me, considering Meyer's arm problems over the years, that the Twins would have some strict guidelines to limit his usage and would have a quick hook in place when he reaches to limits or appears to be tiring. 

 

Certainly plausible. But given how the youngsters have been handled this that is doubtful. 

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 5:27 PM, KGB said:

I agree with the frustration, but I don't think the Twins are ready to bury the season as just a rebuilding year at this point.  Meyer needs to pitch innings, so he should be starting.  Santana, Nolasco & Hughes are all top 50 starters according to WAR (cheating a little bit - Hughes is 51).

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&page=2_30

 

Berrios and Duffey are also young and match the type of pitchers you would like to see in the rotation.  Meyer just happen to be on the outside for now.  Hopefully he pitches himself back up, I think he out of options next year so it would be good to see him more in the majors but I don't see the big problem with sending him down to prove the first month in AAA was the real thing.

I have no problem with him being sent back down to start and get regular innings. However, I think the major frustration was on him being called up after only 2 starts and finding himself, to then just sit and watch. He wasn't used at all for so long, then got an inning, then was asked to start in a great hitters environment after 1 inning in basically 2 weeks of sitting, then got an extremely quick hook. The sitting and quick hook could have and should have been avoided, but the ballpark, non-homrun, and bad defense by Plouffe also did him no favors...which should be obvious to factor in to things when considering his performance. Would have been nice to see him get a Target Field start while being stretched out and on his due starting day. Oh, and others seem to get the benefit of the doubt while floundering.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 6:25 PM, d-mac said:

Certainly plausible. But given how the youngsters have been handled this that is doubtful. 

If this was the case...it was completely on the FO/Molly for putting him in a situation that he'd need a pitch limit. In which case only adds to the weirdness of their usage of him.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 6:21 PM, tobi0040 said:

The only thing that can explain much of anything is our manager does not see the forest through the trees and/or feel any obligation whatsoever to develop young talent.  So he was force fed guys he didn't want to play, like Meyer and Kepler and he did as much as he could to not play them.  Probaby got his hand slapped by Terry, then gave Meyer a "start" and Kepler a game here or there. 

 

Our GM and coach have wildly different objectives and both of them are executing different plans.

I don't know if I'd go that far.  I am sure they have disagreements (I know Molitor voted to keep Meyer in the pen this spring, and TR voted starter), but I don't know that there's any evidence that suggests it is any more than that.

 

It does seem like the Kepler and Meyer appearances were rather forced, but I don't  know if that was the result of friction between the Twins decision-makers.  It could just as well be poor decision-making/planning by all involved.

[Loosey]

If anyone else already mentioned this, sorry for repeating.  But it's beginning to be pretty telling of the Major League Management and coaching that an organization that has many players who are top prospects and minor league teams who are winning championships with a core group of guys all are rather mediocre, or below average upon arrival to Minnesota.  The Twins are ruining their young players by messing with their heads, and jerking them around.  Alex Meyer should have been given every chance to get out of that inning yesterday.  He was not pitching well, Milone didn't exactly stop the bleeding. 

 

Alex Meyer was pitching fantastic as a starter in AAA.  Then they called him up the day before his scheduled start, let him sit on the bench for 5 days, tell him he's starting the following Tuesday, and then randomly give him an inning of relief on Friday.  Way to keep him in his routine.  If you did that with a Major League starter he would complain and most likely struggle.

 

I like Paul Molitor as a baseball player, and he might be a good manager to at team of veterans.  But he is not, in my opinion, the right guy to manage a team of young players still learning MLB. 

 

- Rant Over.