Meyer optioned back to AAA

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 11:46 AM, KGB said:

Berrios didn't get into trouble until the 5th and Molitor pulled him when the trouble started, the same as he did with Meyer - his just started in the 3rd inning.

Actually, Berrios walked the #9 hitter to lead off the 3rd inning in his debut, then followed it by allowing a single, getting a strikeout, and then allowed a first pitch 2 run double.

 

 

I'll grant that Meyer's inning was a little worse, and took a little longer, but he did manage to get two outs and was set to face the Astros' .196 AVG DH whom he struck out the previous inning.

 

The biggest difference between the two innings might not be the pitching performances, but rather who was available in the pen.  For Berrios' start, the Twins only long relief option was Meyer himself, apparently to be used only in case of emergency.  For Meyer's start, they had Milone, the veteran who had just lost his starting spot and needed some work.  Bonus points for Milone being left handed with a lefty coming up, even though it wasn't a particularly dangerous lefty or critical spot.

 

[HitInAPinch]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 1:23 PM, alarp33 said:

Obviously I was being facetious.  I think his perceived fielding value was greatly exaggerated during the great Sano to RF debate.  He makes routine plays, he's better than he was when he 1st moved to 3rd. He's horrendous at balls to his right.  None of the FSN replay angles showed it perfectly, but each one looked like that ball was literally 1 step to his right, and he hardly had moved from his stance by the time the ball reached the outfield.  It was hit hard, but not THAT hard.  

 

Yeah, I'm not very good with facetious   

[gunnarthor]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 2:20 PM, Taildragger8791 said:

 

The most disappointing thing to me is that the kid wasn't really set up with his best chance for success. We know he's had some struggles and he finally seemed to be straightening things out in AAA. Instead of keeping him in his routine and letting him get in a groove, he gets called up after only a few starts and then sits for 9 days between appearances, pitches an inning of mop up duty in a blowout (after not relieving since last season), sits another 4 days, then gets a spot start? I just don't see how yanking a guy around who was finally figuring it out could ever be seen as optimal. Let him stay in his routine and see if he can reestablish and maintain some consistency over more than a few starts.

 

Exactly.  And that is on Molitor who (I think) is not willing to let Meyer get a shot.  He clearly thinks he's a bullpen arm and not one he even trusts.  

[markos]

Two thoughts:

1) Has anyone heard if Meyer was under any particular pitch count restrictions? I wouldn't be shocked if he was under a pretty tight pitch count considering he has thrown all of 1 inning over the past two weeks. He finished with 65 pitches. Also, I know the Twins, at least with some of the minor league guys, have per-inning pitch counts, and if the pitcher exceeds that in any inning their night is over. Meyer threw 28 pitches without getting out of the 3rd inning. Maybe that was the reason he was pulled?

2) His velocity did drop quite a bit by the 3rd inning, relatively speaking. In the 1st, his fastball averaged 97, and he didn't have a single pitch below 96. In the 3rd, he only had a single fastball over 97, and by the end of the inning he was sitting at 94 - his slowest fastballs of the night. There is a school of thought that pitchers are more likely to injure themselves when they pitch tired, so maybe they were trying to protect him?

 

I obviously don't know anything. But it certainly wouldn't shock me, considering Meyer's arm problems over the years, that the Twins would have some strict guidelines to limit his usage and would have a quick hook in place when he reaches to limits or appears to be tiring. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 12:44 PM, nytwinsfan said:

That's absurd.  He doesn't have zero control. He had zero control for a couple of batters after he (understandably) was rattled by giving up his first major league quasi-HR.

Actually, I don't think he had "zero control" after the HR either.  He got ahead of Altuve (a pretty game great hitter right now) 1-2, and almost had him out a couple times in the rest of the at-bat.  Then Altuve stole second, with an assist from Suzuki, and he walked Springer on a pretty close pitch.

 

Interestingly, watching the replay now, at that point Dick Bremer observed that "this is exactly when Neil Allen visited Jose Berrios on the mound, and it really calmed him down."  Then the camera cuts to the dugout, and Neil Allen is instead picking up the bullpen phone to get Milone warming.

 

After the double to Correa, Neil Allen finally visited (to calm Meyer, or to buy time for Milone?).  And Meyer responded by getting a popup and a short fly ball.

 

Also interestingly, during the Rasmus at bat which ended in a popup, Dick Bremer noted that Rasmus struck out 4 times the previous game on breaking balls in the dirt, at which point Meyer proceeds to throw a breaking ball in the dirt which Suzuki was unable to block and it scored the runner from third.

 

It was a slow inning, there were a few missed pitches here and there, but that might just be Meyer's style, especially as he looks to adjust to MLB.  (I'll note finally that even Bremer uttered a "wow" when Morris observed Molitor was heading to the mound.)

[tobi0040]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 5:00 AM, bluechipper said:

He's got a 3.40 ERA in the minors with over 10 K/9. Why not give him every chance to start until he proves he can't? 

 

He has proven that he can't start in the big leagues.  He gave up 3 runs in 2+ innings in one start.  I mean, what more proof do you want? 

 

Just a quick reminder of May and Gibson's first 10 starts.  Again, 10 starts, not 2 innings:

 

Gibson’s first 10 starts – 51 IP, 6.53 ERA, 1.74 WHIP, 5.12 k per 9.  3.53 BB per 9.

May’s first 10 starts – 45 IP, 7.88 ERA, 1.77 WHIP, 8.6 k per 9, 4.34 BB per 9

 

Molitor is absolutely not the guy that should be running this team.  We have too many young guys that need to be broken in and he is not the guy for that.  The way in which Meyer and Kepler have been handled are case and point.  Meyer was on a roll at AAA, then sat for almost 10 days.  Cruises through 2 innings with 4 k’s, showing filthy stuff.  Then is a double (not a HR) and two base runners away from Milone warming up.  If I was Meyer, I would politely ask for a trade. 

[jokin]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 2:20 PM, Taildragger8791 said:

 

The most disappointing thing to me is that the kid wasn't really set up with his best chance for success. We know he's had some struggles and he finally seemed to be straightening things out in AAA. Instead of keeping him in his routine and letting him get in a groove, he gets called up after only a few starts and then sits for 9 days between appearances, pitches an inning of mop up duty in a blowout (after not relieving since last season), sits another 4 days, then gets a spot start? I just don't see how yanking a guy around who was finally figuring it out could ever be seen as optimal. Let him stay in his routine and see if he can reestablish and maintain some consistency over more than a few starts.

 

 

I concur and expressed in post form much the same doubt about the Twins intentions and resulting consequences when he first got the call-up a week ago Monday- resulting in Molitor pretending that the "obvious" guy to long relieve in Meyer wasn't even there in the bullpen and then stash in mothballs for 9 days. Is that something you do to a 6'9" guy who has struggled with consistency throughout his career and who finally appeared to be putting things together in AAA and needs the continual positive feedback loop to build on the successes?

 

Ryan and Molitor need to get on the same page with a coherent plan or else trade him while he has value (I fear Meyer's options will be used up next year before he's firmly established in the majors, there's value to derive in having remaining options).

[gunnarthor]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 2:46 PM, tobi0040 said:

He has proven that he can't start in the big leagues.  He gave up 3 runs in 2+ innings in one start.  I mean, what more proof do you want? 

 

Just a quick reminder of May and Gibson's first 10 starts.  Again, 10 starts, not 2 innings:

 

Gibson’s first 10 starts – 51 IP, 6.53 ERA, 1.74 WHIP, 5.12 k per 9.  3.53 BB per 9.

May’s first 10 starts – 45 IP, 7.88 ERA, 1.77 WHIP, 8.6 k per 9, 4.34 BB per 9

 

Molitor is absolutely not the guy that should be running this team.  We have too many young guys that need to be broken in and he is not the guy for that.  The way in which Meyer and Kepler have been handled are case and point.  Meyer was on a roll at AAA, then sat for almost 10 days.  Cruises through 2 innings with 4 k’s, showing filthy stuff.  Then is a double (not a HR) and two base runners away from Milone warming up.  If I was Meyer, I would politely ask for a trade. 

I reached my breaking point with Molitor. If the Twins don't come back with a winning road trip, Ryan should replace him.  Even if it's just letting Gardy finish the season before he does a full search or just promoting Dougie Baseball but both of those guys would have never treated Meyer like that.  

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

I agree...if I was Meyer, I would ask for a trade. If I were Buxton, I would ask for a trade...

 

Don't know if its Molitar or coaching in high minors but our prospects seem to hit a ceiling when getting called up. Wonder what would happen if Twins trade Buxton and Meyer for a good major league catcher...would Buxton and Meyer blossom with a change in scenery or would they continue to stagnate.

[jokin]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 2:46 PM, tobi0040 said:

 

 

.  If I was Meyer, I would politely ask for a trade. 

 

Sadly, that's probably the only way he knows how to communicate. He seems like the nicest male kindergarten teacher in the world. I hope this latest episode makes him downright ornery going forward- chip-on-his-shoulder-spittin', I'm going to prove you all wrong, MAD.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 1:23 PM, jokin said:

A- a lot left to work on his mechanics- apparently a variable release point?

I've heard that too, is it true?  I'm a novice with PitchF/X tools and judging pitchers in general, but Brooks Baseball shows a release point map for Meyer that looks pretty comparable to, say, Nolasco's from Sunday.

 

Meyer, Tuesday:

 

Nolasco, Sunday:

[jokin]

 

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 2:41 PM, spycake said:

Actually, I don't think he had "zero control" after the HR either.  He got ahead of Altuve (a pretty game great hitter right now) 1-2, and almost had him out a couple times in the rest of the at-bat.  Then Altuve stole second, with an assist from Suzuki, and he walked Springer on a pretty close pitch.

 

Interestingly, watching the replay now, at that point Dick Bremer observed that "this is exactly when Neil Allen visited Jose Berrios on the mound, and it really calmed him down."  Then the camera cuts to the dugout, and Neil Allen is instead picking up the bullpen phone to get Milone warming.

 

After the double to Correa, Neil Allen finally visited (to calm Meyer, or to buy time for Milone?).  And Meyer responded by getting a popup and a short fly ball.

 

 

 

It was a slow inning, there were a few missed pitches here and there, but that might just be Meyer's style, especially as he looks to adjust to MLB.  (I'll note finally that even Bremer uttered a "wow" when Morris observed Molitor was heading to the mound.)

 

I haven't read any of the local reporters, so I don't know if they've expressed opinions on the questionably quick hook in the post-game presser, but they seemed to let Molitor off the hook on the quick hook. In another town, that would have been the focus of about 5 minutes worth of media second-guessing and borderline brow-beating.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

I echo all the disappointing sentiments and comments in here and could feel this coming a mile a way. It is sad when things play out the way you facetiously predicted.  

[Steve Lein]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 5:03 AM, USAFChief said:

At risk of repeating myself...he doesn't have the pitches, delivery, or command to go through a big league lineup every 5 days.

 

Late to the party here, BUT...

 

Though you are correct on the delivery and command parts, as he can lose this pretty quickly, Meyer still has the best pure "stuff" of any pitcher in the Twins organization.

 

That fastball can hit 100 on a good day, and it's not a pure straight one. His knuckle-curve is also on Duffey's breaking ball level. You saw some of that yesterday.

 

Does all this together mean he might be better suited for a bullpen role, maybe, but I'd like to see him get at least the amount of opportunity that Trevor may was given before that is decided. It's his first MLB start. Berrios' didn't go well either, yet nobody was jumping on him like this.

 

 

[jokin]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 3:19 PM, Steve Lein said:

 

 

 It's his first MLB start. Berrios' didn't go well either, yet nobody was jumping on him like this.

 

This X 1000

[alarp33]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 2:46 PM, tobi0040 said:

 

Molitor is absolutely not the guy that should be running this team.  We have too many young guys that need to be broken in and he is not the guy for that.  The way in which Meyer and Kepler have been handled are case and point.  Meyer was on a roll at AAA, then sat for almost 10 days.  Cruises through 2 innings with 4 k’s, showing filthy stuff.  Then is a double (not a HR) and two base runners away from Milone warming up.  If I was Meyer, I would politely ask for a trade. 

 

I think you can add Polanco to that list as well.  

 

There are certain players that can have 1 bad game and be on the bench the next night, the types of guys who are learning to be Major Leaguers, and are bound to struggle at times.  Buxton, Arcia, etc. I know Buxton looked terrible, and I'm not even disagreeing with sending him down... but part of the reason I'm glad they sent him down is Molitor was playing him 2 of 3, or 3 of 4 days.  How sharp can a 22 year old stay when he's being bounced in and out of the lineup, and knows a 0-4 will put him on the bench the next night.  

 

But then you have the other side - Danny Santana can be the worst player in baseball over 100 games and is suddenly the teams everyday leadoff hitter.  

 

Heck of a double standard. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 11:46 AM, KGB said:

Berrios didn't get into trouble until the 5th and Molitor pulled him when the trouble started, the same as he did with Meyer - his just started in the 3rd inning. 

Also, I know you were talking about Berrios' debut, but his appearance Monday might be instructive too.

 

Berrios actually labored a bit more than Meyer in the first two innings Monday -- 42 pitches and a run allowed on a HR, two walks and a single.  Then he started the third inning with back to back walks to two good hitters, Springer and Correa.

 

Was there a call to the pen to warm up Milone at that point?  Nope, a coaching visit to the mound.  After which Berrios retired Rasmus and Gattis on 8 pitches, to end the inning at 61 pitches for the game, and then he retired Tucker to lead off a smooth 4th inning.

 

Not all that dissimilar to Tuesday night, Meyer with back to back walks in the third to two good hitters, Altuve and Springer.  Coaching visit to the mound?  Nope, a call to the pen before Correa works a long at-bat that ends with a double.  Then finally a visit to the mound, after which Meyer retired Rasmus and White on 8 pitches, but he got the hook before being allowed to face Preston Tucker with 2 outs, his night ending at 65 pitches.

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:23 AM, bluechipper said:

He could've easily pitched 5 innings tonight if given the chance.

 

He was at about 62 pitches through 2.1 innings... Not sure that he "easily" could have finished 5. 

[Seth Stohs]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 12:06 PM, HitInAPinch said:

And the real thing is:  the Twins, historically, will not allow this to happen.  It's the Twins Way.

Release Alex Meyer and let him go to a team that will allow him to develop as a power pitching starter.

 

The Twins are sending him down so that he can develop as a power-pitching starter... I must be missing something because this is exactly what they're doing. He's dominant when he's got any semblance of control of the Fastball and his curveball can be devastating. All four of his strikeouts came with those two pitches. 

 

He can and should be in Rochester starting because the Twins may need him again, and I'd certainly take my chances that he can start.

 

They're sending him down to keep starting, and they're calling up Graham as depth for the MLB bullpen until Saturday when Ervin Santana comes off the DL. Graham has been bad, but hopefully the starters and better RP will allow so that he doesn't have to pitch the next two games. 

[tobi0040]

 

Meyer is never going to develop under Molitor.  He needs to get shelled a few times and learn from it.  And he needs to get in a few jams and work his way through them.  He can't do these things when he is yanked at the first sign of adversity.

 

I think Molitor wants him in the pen and this has been a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Unfortunately, he is bound to be a mop up reliever here because Molitor will never put him in a tight game or with runners on base.  A complete waste of a talented player.

[tobi0040]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 3:30 PM, Seth Stohs said:

The Twins are sending him down so that he can develop as a power-pitching starter... I must be missing something because this is exactly what they're doing. He's dominant when he's got any semblance of control of the Fastball and his curveball can be devastating. All four of his strikeouts came with those two pitches. 

 

He can and should be in Rochester starting because the Twins may need him again, and I'd certainly take my chances that he can start.

 

They're sending him down to keep starting, and they're calling up Graham as depth for the MLB bullpen until Saturday when Ervin Santana comes off the DL. Graham has been bad, but hopefully the starters and better RP will allow so that he doesn't have to pitch the next two games. 

 

Seth, when should he be brought back up?  After dominating Rochester? Because he has already done that. 

 

And how is he going to develop if he is yanked after a few base runners?   I polititely suggest he needs more than 3.2 innings every two weeks to grow as a pitcher.

 

 

[gunnarthor]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 3:34 PM, tobi0040 said:

   I polititely suggest he needs more than 3.2 innings every two weeks to grow as a pitcher.

That's the part I don't get.  How the hell can Molitor only let him throw 3.2 innings in all the time he had him?  Clearly, he and Ryan aren't on the same page and Ryan should make sure he has a manager that is.  That was brutal.  

[Willihammer]

I missed the game yesterday and I don't know if Meyer's a starter or reliever or a bust but it sure would be nice to know whose dog Meyer killed. Jesus the Twins handling of this kid is... what's a nice word for it... maybe, "delicate."

[KirbyDome89]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 11:46 AM, KGB said:

 The Twins are ripped for not making roster moves quickly and going with a short bench, then when they make a move quickly, then are ripped for not keeping players on the roster.  Always something to dislike.

Fans get annoyed watching veteran/journeyman players with no upside and no future struggle at the major league level, especially when the leash is long (way too long in some cases). They also become annoyed when the prospects who are the future, are called up and then immediately sent down after a hiccup. If I'm going to watch failure at the MLB level I would rather it be the growing pains of young building blocks and not the struggles of stopgaps. 

 

IMO the root of the frustration seems to stem not from the plan to develop a championship team, but seemingly a lack thereof. 

 

[TheLeviathan]

It's May 4th and virtually everything about this team not named Park and Mauer is an unmitigated disaster.  I expected them to go back a step this season, but they're tumbling down the hill head over heels.

 

And as someone who has been a vocal supporter of Molitor, my confidence in that choice has definitely been shaken.

[tobi0040]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 5:03 AM, USAFChief said:

At risk of repeating myself...he doesn't have the pitches, delivery, or command to go through a big league lineup every 5 days.

 

For the life of me I can't understand how his fastball and breaking balls are not MLB starter quality.  And we darn sure don't have five starters with superior stuff than him.  To be quite honest, the only two who you could argue would be Berrios and May.  To replace Meyer with Milone in a game, then take his roster spot to Graham is comical. 

 

Hell, Hughes throws a 90 mph fastball or 87 mph cutter 75% of the time generating k numbers in the 5-6 range per 9.

[FormerMinnasotan]

I am now curious as to what the Twins do with Meyer. I hope he goes back to starting in Rochester so he can try to establish himself as a starting pitcher. I now don't know if the Twins see a future with Meyer in the Twins rotation with Duffey and Berrios having more success thus far. Sad it doesn't seem to be working out for Meyer, but if he keeps rolling in the minors he might be a trade chip as the Twins don't trust Meyer in the rotation and the bullpen.

[beckmt]

Molitor seems to have his favorites,  that is an issue.  TR may have to have a sitdown and tell Paul that it is time to let the youngsters struggle for the future.  If Molitor cannot buy into this, it may be time for Dougie.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

  On 5/4/2016 at 3:30 PM, Seth Stohs said:

The Twins are sending him down so that he can develop as a power-pitching starter... I must be missing something because this is exactly what they're doing.

Then why did they call him up, push back his scheduled start for a full week, and give him such limited innings in his time up here?  If you're trying to develop the guy as a power-pitching starter, why do you break up that development because you want an emergency reliever for a few days?

 

Why didn't they call up Graham last week to be the emergency reliever?  Or Dean?

[Riverbrian]

  On 5/4/2016 at 4:03 PM, TheLeviathan said:

It's May 4th and virtually everything about this team not named Park and Mauer is an unmitigated disaster.  I expected them to go back a step this season, but they're tumbling down the hill head over heels.

 

And as someone who has been a vocal supporter of Molitor, my confidence in that choice has definitely been shaken.

And... Either Mauer or Park will have to sit when we visit the National League.