Meyer optioned back to AAA

[nytwinsfan]

 

Graham called up.

 

It's pretty obvious Molitor doesn't have faith in Meyer.  I'd rather they kept Meyer and replaced Molitor.

 

Graham? Graham?!?! 10.80 ERA, 8.1 innings pitched this year, hasn't had an ERA below 4 since 2012 J.R. Graham? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[nytwinsfan]

 

I think the writing has been on the wall for awhile, and tonight showed everyone why.  Meyer is a reliever, he has the stuff to be a damn good one but the command and consistency is no where near a mlb starter.  He is a tall lanky slinger that can throw 97 with sick break, stick him in the mlb pen full time and see if you can't make him a setup guy/ closer. 

LOL, it was his first start in the majors, and he did fine. You are just parroting the narrative that you have heard for that last two years. Meyer had some trouble settling down after giving up the quasi-homer. That's a mental thing that needs work. But how was his start any worse than Berrios' first start? In fact, it was much better. Berrios didn't strike out the side in the 2nd. Yet Berrios didn't get pulled or demoted. This is not AT ALL to rip on Berrios. With him, they did what they should have, let him struggle through the next couple innings, then pull him when his pitch count got high, then let him give it another shot 5 days later. Why they won't do that with Meyer, who as the second inning last night showed, has even more upside than Berrios, I cannot fathom.

[nytwinsfan]

 

 

He actually has an ERA of 1.04 in AAA this year so far, along with a 0.865 WHIP and only 2.1 BB/9.

 

He didn't have a good outing, but really puzzling how he gets pulled when he got pulled, considering the way things were unfolding. 

THIS!!!!

[AlwaysinModeration]

I have two questions:

 

1)Is he going back to the rotation in Rochester?

 

2)If he had given up a deeper fly ball on his last pitch, the run would have scored...would he have stayed in with the bases empty? Wondering because he might have continued pitching in the fourth, maybe the fifth....and might have fared better than Millone did. Might have won the game, actually.

[Mr. Brooks]

Just want to remind those calling Meyer a bust already; seven innings.

Seven mlb innings.

This is the equivalent of giving up on Buxton after about 30 at bats.

Crazy.

[Platoon]

At risk of repeating myself...he doesn't have the pitches, delivery, or command to go through a big league lineup every 5 days.

And that might quite possibly be true. For better or worse they invested a start in him, and should have played it out if for no other reason to see what his final line could have been, or not been. This isn't a defense of Meyer as a pitcher, it's a comment on managing the roster of this team, this year, with these players. It's not a one size fits all decision.

[Boom Boom]

Just want to remind those calling Meyer a bust already; seven innings.

Seven mlb innings.

This is the equivalent of giving up on Buxton after about 30 at bats.

Crazy.

Meyer is five years older than Buxton. He's become a very old prospect... so in reality he's a suspect.

[KGB]

 

LOL, it was his first start in the majors, and he did fine. You are just parroting the narrative that you have heard for that last two years. Meyer had some trouble settling down after giving up the quasi-homer. That's a mental thing that needs work. But how was his start any worse than Berrios' first start? In fact, it was much better. Berrios didn't strike out the side in the 2nd. Yet Berrios didn't get pulled or demoted. This is not AT ALL to rip on Berrios. With him, they did what they should have, let him struggle through the next couple innings, then pull him when his pitch count got high, then let him give it another shot 5 days later. Why they won't do that with Meyer, who as the second inning last night showed, has even more upside than Berrios, I cannot fathom.

Berrios didn't get into trouble until the 5th and Molitor pulled him when the trouble started, the same as he did with Meyer - his just started in the 3rd inning.  Berrios gets the extra starts because a veteran is not coming off the DL and taking his place in the rotation when his next start is scheduled.

 

I don't many would agree that Meyer has a better upside than Berrios, he throws harder but that's all.  He'll be up again this year, but it makes no sense to keep him on the roster now when you can't use him and he'll be sent down when you activate Santana.  The Twins are ripped for not making roster moves quickly and going with a short bench, then when they make a move quickly, then are ripped for not keeping players on the roster.  Always something to dislike.

[HitInAPinch]

In last nights game, the death knell for Alex Meyer was when Neil Allen went to the mound.  What were the next 2 pitches?  Breaking balls low and very away.  What are Meyer's worst pitches?  Yeah, breaking balls.  Game over.

 

If I'm in the Twins organization, I'd be asking myself a simple question:

What type of pitcher is Alex Meyer?  Similar to a Brad Radke - type or Randy Johnson - type?

 

Pretty easy answer.  Early in his career, I have little doubt the Expos tried the same thing with Johnson.  He gets traded to Seattle and becomes a largely fastball 1st pitcher with a nice little button-hook type slider.  Success.

 

Let Alex Meyer be Alex Meyer:  a power pitchering starter that only shows a breaking ball to keep hitters off balance a little.  His long, lanky build makes him a Terrible choice for the bullpen.

 

And the real thing is:  the Twins, historically, will not allow this to happen.  It's the Twins Way.

Release Alex Meyer and let him go to a team that will allow him to develop as a power pitching starter.

[deanlambrecht]

 

LOL, it was his first start in the majors, and he did fine. You are just parroting the narrative that you have heard for that last two years. Meyer had some trouble settling down after giving up the quasi-homer. That's a mental thing that needs work. But how was his start any worse than Berrios' first start? In fact, it was much better. Berrios didn't strike out the side in the 2nd. Yet Berrios didn't get pulled or demoted. This is not AT ALL to rip on Berrios. With him, they did what they should have, let him struggle through the next couple innings, then pull him when his pitch count got high, then let him give it another shot 5 days later. Why they won't do that with Meyer, who as the second inning last night showed, has even more upside than Berrios, I cannot fathom.

 

Other than what I've struck through, I agree with this statement completely.  Meyer looked great last night with the exception of two-thirds of an inning.  He was clearly settling down as he approached the last out of the third.  Then he got the hook.  Inexplicable, terrible management decision.  That was exactly the opportunity we needed to see how he pitched himself out of trouble (or not!).

 

Analogy:  In the Nolasco v. Angels game, Nolasco gave up four runs in the second inning.  Nolasco's history in the organization is far, far worse than Meyer's, and his prior career indicates that we've seen his ceiling.  Yet on Molitor's theory of pitcher management as displayed last night in his decision to hook Meyer, Nolasco should have been yanked out of that game before the inning ended and sent immediately to Rochester.  Look what's happened to Nolasco instead.

 

Awful.  I'll give Molitor the same benefit of the doubt that goes to Meyer in this situation: young manager will make some mistakes but should be allowed to work them out in order to learn and grow rather than getting an immediate hook.  Lucky for him he works in an organization that is perhaps too slow to give management the hook.

[Boom Boom]

I don't think it's likely that Meyer will become a Randy Johnson type starter at this point.

 

He looks more like a Jim Hoey type reliever.

[laloesch]

 

Just want to remind those calling Meyer a bust already; seven innings.
Seven mlb innings.
This is the equivalent of giving up on Buxton after about 30 at bats.
Crazy.

 

 

He's 26 years old going on 27 and he has zero control.  Trust me he's a bust.

[BubbleSoccerMinnesota.net]

The idea that if you throw hard enough (Nolan Ryan) placement and movement are less essential is a line of thought I heard several times last night during the broadcast. The problem is although velocity might be Meyers' best strength, 95-97 isn't enough of a disparity between his avg. velocity and the everyday starter to completely forgo placement and movement. The kid isn't throwing Nolan Ryan level velocity out there, he needs to figure out how to add one or the other more consistently (placement or add movement). In my experience a slight mechanics change or grip is easier to add. If he isn't able to place the ball where he wants consistently enough at this stage, he isn't ever going to be that guy unless this added velocity is something new to him due to recent mechanics/strength development.

[nytwinsfan]

 

He's 26 years old going on 27 and he has zero control.  Trust me he's a bust.

That's absurd.  He doesn't have zero control. He had zero control for a couple of batters after he (understandably) was rattled by giving up his first major league quasi-HR. He had plenty of control in the second inning when he struck out the #$*ing side, he had plenty of control after he got his **** back together to get two outs in the 3rd, and he had plenty of control in his first couple of starts with Rochester this year. It was his first damn start as a major leaguer. Berrios walked 5 in his second MLB start, but nobody is calling for him to never start again. Yes, I understand he's 5 years younger, but Meyer is also 6 foot 8 and age really doesn't matter nearly as much for pitchers as it does for batters. I'm not saying Meyer is a guaranteed success as a starter. But even if he has a 15% chance (I think its higher) it is worth giving him an extended look to work through his nerves and mental toughness, because the upside is soo soo worth it.

 

This is groupthink that because he's tall and had some control issues and because all of the prospect lists have been saying he'll probably be a reliever for the past year he's by definition a reliever. What a waste of an opportunity for this team.

[alarp33]

Meyer's outing might have looked a little different if the hard ground ball Correa hit 1 foot to the right of Plouffe had been fielded.  Anytime someone tells me Plouffe is a great defensive 3rd baseman I would like to show them a loop of "highlights" on balls hit to his right.  

[sorney]

 

That's absurd.  He doesn't have zero control. He had zero control for a couple of batters after he (understandably) was rattled by giving up his first major league quasi-HR. He had plenty of control in the second inning when he struck out the #$*ing side, he had plenty of control after he got his **** back together to get two outs in the 3rd, and he had plenty of control in his first couple of starts with Rochester this year. It was his first damn start as a major leaguer. Berrios walked 5 in his second MLB start, but nobody is calling for him to never start again. Yes, I understand he's 5 years younger, but Meyer is also 6 foot 8 and age really doesn't matter nearly as much for pitchers as it does for batters. I'm not saying Meyer is a guaranteed success as a starter. But even if he has a 15% chance (I think its higher) it is worth giving him an extended look to work through his nerves and mental toughness, because the upside is soo soo worth it.

 

This is groupthink that because he's tall and had some control issues and because all of the prospect lists have been saying he'll probably be a reliever for the past year he's by definition a reliever. What a waste of an opportunity for this team.

I don't get why people want to give up on Meyers so quick so they can get back to Milone....why?!? This team isn't winning 75 games, so let's give Meyers the long extended look

[nytwinsfan]

 

I don't get why people want to give up on Meyers so quick so they can get back to Milone....why?!? This team isn't winning 75 games, so let's give Meyers the long extended look

Exactly.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Meyer's outing might have looked a little different if the hard ground ball Correa hit 1 foot to the right of Plouffe had been fielded.  Anytime someone tells me Plouffe is a great defensive 3rd baseman I would like to show them a loop of "highlights" on balls hit to his right.  

So, put one together.  Not being snarky here, but I haven't really noticed and issue with balls hit to his right.  Actually, probably a lack of attention on my part.  I don't think there a whole lot [re:  very, very little] people here who would consider Plouffe more than MLB average in the field.

[brvama]

Not having seen the game it's futile for me to comment on Meyers performance other than the final stats. From the comments I lean strongly on the side he should have been given the chance to finish the third.

 

Now just a couple of casual observations. Unless he threw a perfect game chances are he was headed back to Rochester with Santana being activated. Better immediately to get that fresh arm then later. The choice is certainly questionable but Graham was up last year and maybe they'd like check him out now. Let's see how, or even if he's used.

 

Second thought. Several of Molitor's decisions seem very questionable. On the management of Meyers and the pitching staff, is it he or Allen that is spearheading these moves? I also wonder if there is a disconnect between Molitor and TR regarding the roster and usage. Yes, game management falls on the manager, but bringing up prospects to sit doesn't seem like a wise move in their development or future of the team. Note: I was/am a Molitor supporter, but I'm beginning to wonder if I was wrong.

[alarp33]

 

So, put one together.  Not being snarky here, but I haven't really noticed and issue with balls hit to his right.  Actually, probably a lack of attention on my part.  I don't think there a whole lot [re:  very, very little] people here who would consider Plouffe more than MLB average in the field.

 

Obviously I was being facetious.  I think his perceived fielding value was greatly exaggerated during the great Sano to RF debate.  He makes routine plays, he's better than he was when he 1st moved to 3rd. He's horrendous at balls to his right.  None of the FSN replay angles showed it perfectly, but each one looked like that ball was literally 1 step to his right, and he hardly had moved from his stance by the time the ball reached the outfield.  It was hit hard, but not THAT hard.  

[jokin]

 

LOL, it was his first start in the majors, and he did fine. You are just parroting the narrative that you have heard for that last two years. Meyer had some trouble settling down after giving up the quasi-homer. That's a mental thing that needs work. But how was his start any worse than Berrios' first start? In fact, it was much better. Berrios didn't strike out the side in the 2nd. Yet Berrios didn't get pulled or demoted. This is not AT ALL to rip on Berrios. With him, they did what they should have, let him struggle through the next couple innings, then pull him when his pitch count got high, then let him give it another shot 5 days later. Why they won't do that with Meyer, who as the second inning last night showed, has even more upside than Berrios, I cannot fathom.

 

THIS!!!!

 

X 10

 

The following chart illustrates Meyer's three challenges last night.

 

1) He wasn't given the benefit of the doubt by the plate umpire on either the low strike or painting the corners. (I count 10 pitches that could/should have been called strikes vs. 2 that could have been called balls)

 

2) He needs to throw more called strikes down in the zone. (He got zero, with six either borderline or in the zone called balls, none for strikes OR balls in the lower left corner)

 

3) The plethora of green dots outside of the zone on the right side of the graph that went for balls indicates that Meyer still has either or both:

 

A- a lot left to work on his mechanics- apparently a variable release point? and,

B- an unwillingness at this point to challenge RH hitters and back them off the plate with equal doses of inside heat and breaking stuff.

 

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/charts/gen/5435422016050120160503AAAAAstrikezone.png

 

 

 

[nytwinsfan]

 

X 10

 

The following chart illustrates Meyer's three challenges last night.

 

1) He wasn't given the benefit of the doubt by the plate umpire on either the low strike or painting the corners. (I count 10 pitches that could/should have been called strikes vs. 2 that could have been called balls)

 

2) He needs to throw more called strikes down in the zone. (He got zero, with six either borderline or in the zone called balls, none for strikes OR balls in the lower left corner)

 

3) The plethora of green dots outside of the zone on the right side of the graph that went for balls indicates that Meyer still has either or both:

 

a) a lot left to work on his mechanics- apparently a variable release point? and,

an unwillingness at this point to challenge RH hitters and back them off the plate with equal doses of inside heat and breaking stuff.

 

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/charts/gen/5435422016050120160503AAAAAstrikezone.png

 

I need to take a break from this discussion. I'm going to lose my mind. I really hope at least Terry Ryan will give Meyer a chance to continue starting, even if Molitor clearly has no patience for it.

[jokin]

 

I need to take a break from this discussion. I'm going to lose my mind. I really hope at least Terry Ryan will give Meyer a chance to continue starting, even if Molitor clearly has no patience for it.

 

I'm also a bit stunned at the negativity here on TD on Meyer that somehat echoes Molitor's lack of patience- did they not watch the flailing and at times helplessness of Astros hitters in the first 2 innings? That to me was something positive to build on, not tear down.

 

FWIW, give Ryan credit for getting Meyer another chance at as a starter, but I'm beginning to echo what another poster in this thread has stated-

 

Meyer's best chance to reach his full potential might best be served in another organization.

[TKGuy]

 

Graham called up.

 

It's pretty obvious Molitor doesn't have faith in Meyer.  I'd rather they kept Meyer and replaced Molitor.

Molitor's handling of Meyer last night was ridiculous.  Meyer gets two people out with a guy on third then is lifted.  Then you bring a guy up who has a 10.80 ERA and a WHIP of 2 in the minor leagues.  Yes, Meyer caused the problems himself in the 3rd inning, but he has the stuff to get out of it.  Berrios and Meyer can actually strikeout someone.  I am very frustrated with Molitor at this point.  He has left starting pitchers in too long in late innings and then pulled this crap last night.  Meyer should at least be in the pen.  Casey Fien cannot get anybody out when needed except in a mop up role.  He's going to run May, Pressley and Abad into the ground.

[gunnarthor]

 

X 10

 

The following chart illustrates Meyer's three challenges last night.

 

1) He wasn't given the benefit of the doubt by the plate umpire on either the low strike or painting the corners. (I count 10 pitches that could/should have been called strikes vs. 2 that could have been called balls)

 

2) He needs to throw more called strikes down in the zone. (He got zero, with six either borderline or in the zone called balls, none for strikes OR balls in the lower left corner)

 

3) The plethora of green dots outside of the zone on the right side of the graph that went for balls indicates that Meyer still has either or both:

 

A- a lot left to work on his mechanics- apparently a variable release point? and,

B- an unwillingness at this point to challenge RH hitters and back them off the plate with equal doses of inside heat and breaking stuff.

 

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/charts/gen/5435422016050120160503AAAAAstrikezone.png

Nice post.  I was thinking in the first inning that Meyer was not trying to throw inside and I assumed (I could be wrong) that he probably worries a bit about hitting someone with a 95mph fastball.  I thought he should just hit someone and make the other team worry more.  :-)

 

Anyhow, he got squeezed a bit but Molitor should have let him fight through it.  After the wild pitch he got two quick outs.  Let him finish it.  

[Mr. Brooks]

He's 26 years old going on 27 and he has zero control. Trust me he's a bust.

I don't know how you can say he has "zero control".

He has a better milb walk rate than Trevor May, and has pitched 7 innings in the majors.

I'm guessing you said the exact same thing after May's disastrous mlb starting debut when he couldn't get the ball within 2 feet of the strike zone.

[zenser]

I know his delivery is a work in progress.  I actually liked what I saw the first two innings.  I hope he gets an actual chance sometime.  I am sure the kid had butterflies and a little of nerves and/or adrenaline pumping considering it was his first MLB start and has a total of 7 innings. 

[twinsnorth49]

 

I know his delivery is a work in progress.  I actually liked what I saw the first two innings.  I hope he gets an actual chance sometime.  I am sure the kid had butterflies and a little of nerves and/or adrenaline pumping considering it was his first MLB start and has a total of 7 innings. 

+1, a lot of people ignoring the circumstances, I think he showed enough good things to warrant another start, especially on this team.

[laloesch]

 

I don't know how you can say he has "zero control".
He has a better milb walk rate than Trevor May, and has pitched 7 innings in the majors.
I'm guessing you said the exact same thing after May's disastrous mlb starting debut when he couldn't get the ball within 2 feet of the strike zone.

 

 

Actually Mr. Brooks I never said that and before you put any more words in my mouth and pout some more I do agree though that Molitor totally mishandled the situation and pulled him too early.  And for the record, if your willing to look I am a big Trevor May advocate. In fact I think he has the potential to be one of the Twins best starters if given the chance.

 

Now that we've settled that, I swear sometimes that if I squint my eyes enough he begins to look like Gardy.  My guess is that Molitor never wanted to start Meyer, but had his hand forced by Ryan.  At the first sign of trouble he pulled him and sent him backing back to AAA. 

 

Talk about crushing the dreams of a youngster.  FAIL.....Paul, absolute FAIL.

 

Regarding Meyer's pitch distribution, all you have to do is look at the charts.  I don't care about his minor league numbers from 2 or 3 seasons ago.  LOOK AT THE CHARTS.  Everything is down and away.  SO YEAH LACK OF CONTROL Mr.Brooks.  Don't know how you can't see that.

Do I want to see another start from him?  Heck yeah. 

[Taildragger8791]

The most disappointing thing to me is that the kid wasn't really set up with his best chance for success. We know he's had some struggles and he finally seemed to be straightening things out in AAA. Instead of keeping him in his routine and letting him get in a groove, he gets called up after only a few starts and then sits for 9 days between appearances, pitches an inning of mop up duty in a blowout (after not relieving since last season), sits another 4 days, then gets a spot start? I just don't see how yanking a guy around who was finally figuring it out could ever be seen as optimal. Let him stay in his routine and see if he can reestablish and maintain some consistency over more than a few starts.