Article: Rotating the Rotation: Is Jose Berrios Coming Up Soon?

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

The Twins don't want a pitcher of Berrios potential retching free agency before age 30.
They will find excuse after excuse to keep Berrios in the minors.

IMO, who cares about that. He will be damaged goods due to injuries or on the decline at that point. Bring electric arms up as soon as they're ready, as they are a fragile commodity that do not simply have improvements over year after year. Good young pitchers decline all the time while they are still young. 

[Major League Ready]

 

Does his effectiveness the first time through the order in his last 3 starts really mean anything?

Sorry, I meant to quote the poster that said he did not want a soft tossing lefty in the pen.  In other words, I too was thinking it screams long reliever.  That's ok.  Milone could provide some value in that role and it makes room for one of Meyer/Berrios/Duffey.

 

Let's hope Nolasco continues to be great and makes himself marketable.  As long as we are hoping.  Let's hope a contender finds the need top add him and we actually get something for him.  That makes room for 2 of Meyer/Berrios/Duffey.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Major Leauge Ready

[TheLeviathan]

Milone always should have been a reliever.

[Thrylos]

 

Hopefully the extra spot on the 40 man roster is with Berrios in mind.

 

David Murphy

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

David Murphy

 

Yep.  I suspect that is what it is for.  Buxton will likely be going down given his inability to hit major league pitching. 

[jokin]

 

Who cares if Milone is out of options? Honestly, why would finding a way to keep him be Amy kind of priority? You can find a beating heart to stand in the mound and lose games in the independent leagues (see Albers, who is Milone-Lite).

It's mind boggling that there are two young starters lighting up AAA, with excellent stuff, and the Twins continue to run out Tommy Milone, who has been a ticking time bomb with an 88 mph arrow straight fastball for his entire career. The guy has never been a good pitcher. I have never seen semi-advanced sabermetrics be disregarded in such a way, when talking about a player and their value (by most fans).

Only the Twins front office would make a decision that's this deplorable. I'm sorry,
but that's just a fact. Throw the starting pitchers that the Twins have at their disposal I to another system, and there wouldn't be a single one that would continue to run out Tommy Milone when they've had a top 10 pitching prospect ready for The majors since mid-2015 (Berrios), and another very good prospect who has already spent half a season as the team's best pitcher (Duffey).

It would be totally different if the Twins were 12-5 at this point. But, TR is sitting and watching this team in a tailspin, on the verge of being completely out of hope before May, and its nothing but status quo....which was FUBAR to begin with.

If this season doesnt epitomize the reasons why TR needs to go, I don't know what more can be done (The bullpen situation, the Sano/Park debacle, the Duffey/Berrios set-up out of ST). Does he need to set the all-time loss record for someone other than a few fans to take notice of how utterly incompetent he is when it comes to managing an MLB roster?

 

You left Alex Meyer (and May) out of your calculus, Darius.

 

(Both could have been force-fed into the rotation in mid-2014 at a time when they absolutely dominated AAA, in which case they would both be much farther along their developmental timeline.)

[alarp33]

 

David Murphy

 

Remember when people said Berrios couldn't be called up because the 40 man roster was so precious and he wasn't on it? And then the Twins released a needed catcher from it so they could add a 34 year old left handed hitting corner OF/Dh of which they already have 3 who are better and potentially part of the future (Arcia, Rosario, Kepler)?

 

That was fun. This season has been fun

[jokin]

 

Remember when people said Berrios couldn't be called up because the 40 man roster was so precious and he wasn't on it? And then the Twins released a needed catcher from it so they could add a 34 year old left handed hitting corner OF/Dh of which they already have 3 who are better and potentially part of the future (Arcia, Rosario, Kepler)?

 

That was fun. This season has been fun

 

This latest move on HIcks is head-scratching, given how long they usually hold on to such prototypical (non)-catching prospect entities like Chris Hermann.

 

Perhaps it's Murphy's "veteraniness" they prize even more?

 

In order to fill that clubhouse void left in the wake of Hunter's retirement?

 

(I mean post-game dance parties don't start themselves up in a vacuum.)

 

Or maybe they're operating on the theory that: "Two Murphy's Are Better Than One"?

 

(FWIW- Hermann's hitting prowess with the D-Backs is putting JR Murphy to utter shame- given his 2016 hitting line- .125/.192/.333/(.525))

Edited April 25, 2016 by jokin

[alarp33]

 

This latest move on HIcks is head-scratching, given how long they usually hold on to such prototypical (non)-catching prospect entities like Chris Hermann.

 

Perhaps it's Murphy's "veteraniness" they prize even more?

 

In order to fill that clubhouse void left in the wake of Hunter's retirement?

 

(I mean post-game dance parties don't start themselves up in a vacuum.)

 

Or maybe they're operating on the theory that: "Two Murphy's Are Better Than One"?

 

(FWIW- Hermann's hitting prowess with the D-Backs is putting JR Murphy to utter shame- given his 2016 hitting line- .125/.192/.333/(.525))

 

If someone has a logical explanation for why they are under the assumption David Murphy is needed, I'm all ears.  

 

I keep hearing through the FO mouth pieces in the media that he was signed to "send a message" to the young guys like Buxton.  But he isn't a Buxton replacement, if the Twins want to demote Buxton they have Santana being activated, and Kepler should be the every day CFer in that scenario.  

[jokin]

 

If someone has a logical explanation for why they are under the assumption David Murphy is needed, I'm all ears.  

 

I keep hearing through the FO mouth pieces in the media that he was signed to "send a message" to the young guys like Buxton.  But he isn't a Buxton replacement, if the Twins want to demote Buxton they have Santana being activated, and Kepler should be the every day CFer in that scenario.  

 

Perhaps Twins management couldn't resist basking in the irony of yet another strategically-planned "Hicks for Murphy" swap?

[jokin]

 

If someone has a logical explanation for why they are under the assumption David Murphy is needed, I'm all ears.  

 

I keep hearing through the FO mouth pieces in the media that he was signed to "send a message" to the young guys like Buxton.  But he isn't a Buxton replacement, if the Twins want to demote Buxton they have Santana being activated, and Kepler should be the every day CFer in that scenario.  

 

FWIW- Look for both Buxton and Kepler riding the same jet back to Rochester very soon. Santana is eligible to come off of the DL today.*

 

* MN Twins version of a roster "Shake-Up" TM

[alarp33]

 

FWIW- Look for both Buxton and Kepler riding the same jet back to Rochester very soon. Santana is eligible to come off of the DL today.*

 

* MN Twins version of a roster "Shake-Up" TM

 

I'm as ready as I can be, because I fully expect that to happen.  

 

All of their problems will be solved with a Murphy - Rosario - Sano outfield! And Danny Santana ready to fill in 5 times a week*  Arcia on the bench obviously because he had a bad game once last week

 

 

*Let's just ignore that Rosario and Santana are as bad of hitters as the current version of Buxton

Edited April 25, 2016 by alarp33

[ThejacKmp]

 

The lack of foresight over the last year or two has been just awful.

Perkins declining and Jepsen pitching much better than reality last year. They don't sign anyone.

Plouffe and Sano.

The extra bodies around the rotation and tendering guys like Milone.

The outfield defense with both Sano and Arcia in it. The log jam between OF, 1b, and DH and the Park signing.

 

That's a lot of hindsight too though, which has the benefit of being 20/20. To varying degrees those are all justifiable. In order of justifiableness:

 

(1) Milone was cheap and is a decent back of the rotation starter. The Twins weren’t going to use that money for anything else (they were not going to sign a 3 year reliever for other reasons – right or wrong – and there’s nowhere else you would see them obviously spending that money) so it’s not a waste of money. The Twins have a lot of pitching now but that wasn’t a given – Duffey and Berrios were young, the Twins wanted May in the pen and Nolasco is Rick Freaking Nolasco. It wasn’t crazy to spend so little to bring back another option. The mistake will come if the Twins aren’t ready to move on from Milone in the next few weeks if he continues to not be the best option. And there’s where Milone makes the most sense: as a lefty starter he is easily traded for a low level prospect whenever you want out or he could fit in as a lefty long reliever (especially nice for a team with all right handed starters).

 

(2) I also don’t think we should judge the Twins too harshly (yet) on Plouffe and Sano. The Twins had so many unknowns coming into this year: was Park a major leaguer? was Arcia the 2014 version or the 2015 version? was Rosario’s 2015 a mirage? would Buxton be unplayable a the ML level? was Kepler ready for the bigs? would Mauer force himself out of the lineup? For that reason, Plouffe represented some decent foresight actually. He was stability in case several of those questions went the wrong way – especially because there wasn’t a good offseason trade offer for him. Weirdly, though the Twins season has been disappointing thus far, all of those questions above have more-or-less worked out positively. Park, Buxton and Rosario all seem like major leaguers (if not prospering ones in all cases), Arcia has put himself back on the map, Joe has found the Fountain of Youth and even Kepler looks good. I think you can get mad at the Twins if they haven’t figured out the log jam by the deadline but I think getting upset about Plouffe/Sano and the logjam is the benefit of hindsight – it wasn’t a given that things would work out so well and Plouffe could get a much better haul at the deadline.

 

(3) Jepsen has not been as good this year but he was a fine addition at the deadline last year - they didn't give up an insane amount to get him and they had another year of control. The fair criticism might be not getting another reliever last year for the pennant run or not signing a 3 year reliever this year. Though on that last part, I think we need to give it some time. If Chargois and some of the other younger guys come up and are great, we’re going to be glad there was an extra spot for them.  So I get this one but I don’t think it qualifies as awful foresight.

 

(4) Sano and Arcia in the OF. They have looked not good but I think the Twins never expected to be playing the two of them together quite as much as they have. Buxton’s injury and Rosario’s results not demanding everyday playing time have contributed to this happening. It’s not ideal but I also don’t think it’s a long term solution and certainly wasn’t something the Twins were planning on relying on so much.

 

(5) Most defendable foresight criticism is Perkins.  I’ve been wishing they'd traded Perkins for years now but I get why they haven’t.  He's a hometown guy and was a big draw when the Twins were terrible. It's easy (and likely correct?) to think that decisions should be made purely with business in mind but in reality, Perk is a hometown guy loved by fans and it's hard to trade him. The same thing will be true of Dozier if Polanco looks good, for better or for worse. So I agree on the lack of foresight but I think it’s worthwhile to understand the human aspect of things here. And to start hoping the Twins learn their lesson if Polanco keeps hitting.

 

 

[ThejacKmp]

 

I think Berrios still needs a few more starts to show that he is done with AAA but he has been about as consistent with his success as any prospect I've seen. If someone doesn't get hurt I would make a spot for him soon. Surprisingly the spot he might take is gibsons

 

They believe in Gibson long-term. Barring some injury to him, I think Tommy Milone is the guy out for Berrios by mid-May.

[Mike Sixel]

By the time they call up the young RPs, they will be out of the race. They aimed low on catcher, and the bullpen, and they are getting what they deserved. If you are going to argue they weren't ever competitive this year anyway, why sign a 29 / 30 year old DH, and not start with some youth in the bullpen? 

[ThejacKmp]

 

Only the Twins front office would make a decision that's this deplorable. I'm sorry, but that's just a fact.

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying overall (though I think that Tommy Milone is sharkbait with one or maybe two more starts so I think we should show a small bit of patience before we start throwing the lifeboats overboard) but this made me laugh. That is an opinion, not a fact. And I'm not sure that you'd be able to even defend it as true. There are undoubtedly many other front offices that make terrible decisions as well, the Twins are not unique in making decisions that the casual fan doesn't understand. (The Phillies? The Marlins? The Padres?)

 

Enjoyable hyperbole but worth noting what is and is not a fact.

[alarp33]

With Milone not even getting through the 5th last night, again, does Berrios debut at home on Sunday vs the Tigers? 

 

Who do you think makes that Sunday start; 

 

Milone

Berrios

Meyer

Duffey

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

With Milone not even getting through the 5th last night, again, does Berrios debut at home on Sunday vs the Tigers? 

 

Who do you think makes that Sunday start; 

 

Milone

Berrios

Meyer

Duffey

I know they don't like to skip the 5th starter spot, but that could be an option with the off day Thursday and rain forecast for the rest of this homestand.

Still, I'd guess they'd just let Milone make the start.  TR's quote about Murphy clearly suggests they weren't planning to promote Berrios.  Putting Meyer in the pen (and not using him, despite a relatively early exit by Milone) suggests they're not eager to give him a start.  And while Duffey's spot start Sunday looked like it was due to timing (his turn lining up with Santana's), keeping Duffey around beyond that game seems to suggest they view him at the "6th starter" at this point, first in line for any rotation openings.

[FormerMinnasotan]

I know they don't like to skip the 5th starter spot, but that could be an option with the off day Thursday and rain forecast for the rest of this homestand.

Still, I'd guess they'd just let Milone make the start. TR's quote about Murphy clearly suggests they weren't planning to promote Berrios. Putting Meyer in the pen (and not using him, despite a relatively early exit by Milone) suggests they're not eager to give him a start. And while Duffey's spot start Sunday looked like it was due to timing (his turn lining up with Santana's), keeping Duffey around beyond that game seems to suggest they view him at the "6th starter" at this point, first in line for any rotation openings.

And that is another reason Terry Ryan needs to go. Berrios is ready NOW. If Berrios was on any other MLB club he would have already been called up last year and may have been in the rotation this year. But penny pinching Ryan doesn't want to bring Berrios up this year at all. He wants Berrios to be a September call up NEXT year. Berrios right now is better than Duffey IMO and has been far and away more consistent than Alex Meyer has ever been. So what if Berrios is young for making his MLB debut? Didn't Stephen Strasberg pitch like the equivalent of 1 year in the minors before he was called up? This is year 4 of Berrios in the minors and there is NO WAY Ryan needs to see another full season of AAA ball to determine if Berrios is ready. If Ryan so on the fence with Berrios he might as well trade him away because it seems pretty clear Berrios really doesn't have a future here.

[HitInAPinch]

 

With Milone not even getting through the 5th last night, again, does Berrios debut at home on Sunday vs the Tigers? 

 

Who do you think makes that Sunday start; 

 

Milone

Berrios

Meyer

Duffey

 

.... I would have expected Alex Meyer to be the 1st guy called out of the bullpen.  With a depleted bullpen and the fact that Meyer was already stretched out as a starter, him taking over for Milone was the only move that would have made sense to me.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

.... I would have expected Alex Meyer to be the 1st guy called out of the bullpen.  With a depleted bullpen and the fact that Meyer was already stretched out as a starter, him taking over for Milone was the only move that would have made sense to me.

And if Meyer doesn't pitch tonight in relief of Nolasco, he will effectively miss his turn and may not be ready to start Sunday either (assuming he sees some relief work Wednesday-Saturday).

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

With Milone not even getting through the 5th last night, again, does Berrios debut at home on Sunday vs the Tigers? 

 

Who do you think makes that Sunday start; 

 

Milone

Berrios

Meyer

Duffey

Milone: 75%

Duffey: 20%

Meyer: < 5%

Berrios: monkeys

[Pardon My Dinger]

The answer? Yes. Berrios is on his way.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Pardon My Dinger

[JustinCB]

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/725012347119538177

 

Aaron Gleeman ‏@AaronGleeman  2m2 minutes ago
Jose Berrios wrote on Facebook that he's been called up by the Twins to debut tomorrow. Their top pitching prospect since Matt Garza in '06.

Edited April 26, 2016 by JustinCB

[Otto von Ballpark]

What's up with Gibson?  He was the scheduled starter for tomorrow...

[USAFChief]

 

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/725012347119538177

 

Aaron Gleeman ‏@AaronGleeman  2m2 minutes ago
Jose Berrios wrote on Facebook that he's been called up by the Twins to debut tomorrow. Their top pitching prospect since Matt Garza in '06.

ALLRIGHT!  A 15 man pitching staff!!!

 

 

//i kid, i kid.//

[Squirrel]

 

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/725012347119538177

 

Aaron Gleeman ‏@AaronGleeman  2m2 minutes ago
Jose Berrios wrote on Facebook that he's been called up by the Twins to debut tomorrow. Their top pitching prospect since Matt Garza in '06.

Yes! ... and you can discuss the Berrios era in this new article thread.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Milone: 75%

Duffey: 20%

Meyer: < 5%

Berrios: monkeys

For everyone who bet on monkeys, I will open the window tomorrow at 10:30 AM to distribute payouts and issue your 1099's.