Goalies get credited with losses, too, even if they stop 10 breakaways and lose 1-0.  If goalies play like crap, the team tends to lose rather than win, though I suppose you could dig and find a couple exceptions.

 

Closers don't do basically the same job as other relievers.  Just about every failed closer is someone who was a good reliever during other parts of the game.  Except Eck and Smoltz, I guess.  

Re: goalies, that's my point, it equals out.  But certainly more blame falls on their shoulders than is probably deserved.

Re: Closers...  I agree with you that closing is more difficult.  You get every batter concentrating their absolute hardest and possibly adjusting their approach.  You probably face more pressure.  Expectations are higher.  Your failures are more well publicized.  Human nature gets involved on more psychological level due to the finality of the situation.  I think good closers are able to identify and take advantage of batters wanting to be the hero and those that are scared to be the goat.  Perkins apparently learned this from Maddux.  I know Pavano was a big proponent of body language as well. But the numbers guys will berate you with statistics about how coming in with two on in the 7th is more difficult, the difference between the best and worst closer is relatively insignificant etc.  You know how it goes.  But usually the difference in pay is fairly dramatic.

 

So, you're saying he's not hurt and is just making it up because he's off to a slow start?

 

Do you believe there was no injury when he was throwing 90 at the end of March and gave multiple indignant responses to anyone questioning the velocity?  

 

If no, then when do you believe the injury happened, after or during the terrible inning he had Sunday (which he did complete).  

Here's hoping for a make-lemonade-out-of-lemons outcome. I'd love to see Rogers do well and be the first of a wave of young bullpen studs.

I'm taking the spotlight off of Perkins for a second... I just read Lavelle's blog on the Strib and he says that Rogers' role will be "long relief, or no later than the 7th inning, if possible."

 

Soooo what's up Michael Tonkin? What's he going to do now?

 

I'm taking the spotlight off of Perkins for a second... I just read Lavelle's blog on the Strib and he says that Rogers' role will be "long relief, or no later than the 7th inning, if possible."

Soooo what's up Michael Tonkin? What's he going to do now?

 

so, um, not a LOOGY?

 

do they literally not trust young pitchers at all?

 

I am, once again, not in agreement with the organization's handling of the bullpen. No real shock, frankly. 

I don't know if Perk would make up an injury as an excuse... but I will say that if he was perfect in relief so far, a pinch in the shoulder might seem a little more bearable.

I'm taking the spotlight off of Perkins for a second... I just read Lavelle's blog on the Strib and he says that Rogers' role will be "long relief, or no later than the 7th inning, if possible."

 

Soooo what's up Michael Tonkin? What's he going to do now?

Tonkin probably slides into Pressly's role. It makes sense for a few reasons:

 

- Rogers is used to longer outings and is stretched out

 

- This gets Tonkin into more games in his traditional one inning role, making it easier for the Twins to gauge his performance or lack thereof

 

- The second point makes it easier to either trust or waive Tonkin, making room for another young guy

 

Tonkin probably slides into Pressly's role. It makes sense for a few reasons:

- Rogers is used to longer outings and is stretched out

- This gets Tonkin into more games in his traditional one inning role, making it easier for the Twins to gauge his performance or lack thereof

- The second point makes it easier to either trust or waive Tonkin, making room for another young guy

Makes sense to me. As long as this is a faster solution to figure out whether Tonkin is worthwhile to keep on this team or not. 

Sorry Seth, the speculation is completely fair in this situation.

Here is what we know:

 

1 Perkins has a reputation as a player who doesn't spend much time on conditioning. That is not speculation, Perkins himself said that he needed to focus more on it in the offseason.

 

2 Perkins has a history of hiding injuries. Last year he pitched in the all star game, then was terrible in the second half. We would have made the playoffs if Perkins pitched even just ok in the second half.

Then we find out he was hurt BRFORE the all-star game. He pitched in an exhibition game at the cost of the real games his team is paying him big money for. Selfish and unacceptable, IMO.

 

3 His velocity was way down in camp.

 

4 He spoke to the media after Sundays blown save and said nothing of an injury, had no ice on his shoulder, and seemed fine (LenIII's words).

 

Based on all this information, it seems perfectly reasonable to consider that one of the following happened:

 

He has been hurt for some time now, and hid it.

 

Or, he got lazy on the offseason, neglected to strengthen his shoulder, and is not "technically " injured, but rather needs a few weeks to strengthen the shoulder, something that he should have done over the offseason.

 

There may be a perfectly innocuous explanation, and the team could do him a favor by explaining it, but until they do its legitimate to speculate.

 

So, you're saying he's not hurt and is just making it up because he's off to a slow start?

 

Those pitches have been pretty slow, alright!

I think he is done, at 33.  Can't light up the radar gun.  Not much movement.  Sure the shoulder hurts, but it hurts a lot worse after the game when you blow the save and everyone can see that you are throwing 90 mph fastballs.

 

Twins have no options with him.  Either he can throw at 94 and hit his spots or not.  If he can't, there's no where to hide him on the roster.  So, they DL him and tell him to get his velo up or .... that's the thing, they have no place to go with this.  None.

An actual GM would have noted his closer basically needed to be shut down in the 2nd half of the season 2 years in a row and noticed a pattern and planned for it in the off season. An actual GM would have seen said pitcher in camp throwing 88-90mph and gone to Plan B before the season started.

 

Our GM instead did nothing but sit on his hands. Oh and give quotes to the local beat writer than the drastic drop in velocity was unconcerning because "outs are more important than MPH on the fastball"

 

That is exhibit 8 billion on why this front office is basically St Paul Saints West. No offense to the Saints.

You follow his wife on Twitter???

What's Twitter?

 

Do you believe there was no injury when he was throwing 90 at the end of March and gave multiple indignant responses to anyone questioning the velocity?  

 

If no, then when do you believe the injury happened, after or during the terrible inning he had Sunday (which he did complete).  

 

I believe that he felt find and that he wasn't experiencing any issues. 

Sorry Seth, the speculation is completely fair in this situation.

Here is what we know:

1 Perkins has a reputation as a player who doesn't spend much time on conditioning. That is not speculation, Perkins himself said that he needed to focus more on it in the offseason.

2 Perkins has a history of hiding injuries. Last year he pitched in the all star game, then was terrible in the second half. We would have made the playoffs if Perkins pitched even just ok in the second half.

Then we find out he was hurt BRFORE the all-star game. He pitched in an exhibition game at the cost of the real games his team is paying him big money for. Selfish and unacceptable, IMO.

3 His velocity was way down in camp.

4 He spoke to the media after Sundays blown save and said nothing of an injury, had no ice on his shoulder, and seemed fine (LenIII's words).

Based on all this information, it seems perfectly reasonable to consider that one of the following happened:

He has been hurt for some time now, and hid it.

Or, he got lazy on the offseason, neglected to strengthen his shoulder, and is not "technically " injured, but rather needs a few weeks to strengthen the shoulder, something that he should have done over the offseason.

There may be a perfectly innocuous explanation, and the team could do him a favor by explaining it, but until they do its legitimate to speculate.

I hope it's not bi lateral arm weakness?

Personally, I'm into it. Give May the ball for now. Part of us getting better all year is watching our young flame throwers join the 25-man. Fun.

 

Perk is a solid dude. If someone takes over, I don't see him putting up a stink.

 

You follow his wife on Twitter???

 

Who doesn't?

I hope it's not bi lateral arm weakness?

baahaaaaaaaa I just shot beer out my nose! Classic!

 

An actual GM would have noted his closer basically needed to be shut down in the 2nd half of the season 2 years in a row and noticed a pattern and planned for it in the off season. An actual GM would have seen said pitcher in camp throwing 88-90mph and gone to Plan B before the season started.

 

Our GM instead did nothing but sit on his hands. Oh and give quotes to the local beat writer than the drastic drop in velocity was unconcerning because "outs are more important than MPH on the fastball"

 

 

 

But.. there's also... Hey!...Not to forget... "Loyalty" is unshakingly rewarded and is a two-way street at One Twins Way... (after all, it's why most players never want to leave here- is there a team in all of baseball that finds it hard to let go one mediocre player after another, and keeps declining veterans until there's little value left?).

 

Newsflash, when you're rebuilding and one of your top assets with the most value is a closer- you trade him to further the rebuild- whether he's a "loyal" local boy, or not.

Personally, I'm into it. Give May the ball for now. Part of us getting better all year is watching our young flame throwers join the 25-man. Fun.

 

Perk is a solid dude. If someone takes over, I don't see him putting up a stink.

Except last year he threw a fit when Jepsen kept the closers gig after he came back.

 

So, you're saying he's not hurt and is just making it up because he's off to a slow start?

 

Highly doubt it, so is your contention he got hurt during his blown save?  Or sitting around in the bullpen the last few days?

 

Because I'd contend the far more likely scenario is that he's been hurt for awhile and the part he really has been making up is that he's "fine".  His responses to legit concerns about his velocity were aggressive and now here we sit.  Perhaps he should have been the one questioning it.  

 

Why does a gutcheck on his health/prep/fitness only have to come after he costs this team games?

Edited April 13, 201610 yr by TheLeviathan

Makes sense to me. As long as this is a faster solution to figure out whether Tonkin is worthwhile to keep on this team or not.

That's what I'm hoping will happen. It makes sense to me.

 

Personally, I'm into it. Give May the ball for now. Part of us getting better all year is watching our young flame throwers join the 25-man. Fun.

 

May could certainly use about 3-4 more mph of velocity this year, too, for that matter.

 

More importantly, a GM that understands he needs something called insurance.  Not Fernando Abad, or Buddy Boshers.  Or Casey Fien for that matter.

 

Not even Van MIl, Runzler and Kintzler? (Gotta admit, it kinda sounds like an insurance agency...)

 

May could certainly use about 3-4 more mph of velocity this year, too, for that matter.

 

Let's see if the warmer weather helps the velo a bit.

 

Sorry Seth, the speculation is completely fair in this situation.
Here is what we know:

1 Perkins has a reputation as a player who doesn't spend much time on conditioning. That is not speculation, Perkins himself said that he needed to focus more on it in the offseason.

2 Perkins has a history of hiding injuries. Last year he pitched in the all star game, then was terrible in the second half. We would have made the playoffs if Perkins pitched even just ok in the second half.
Then we find out he was hurt BRFORE the all-star game. He pitched in an exhibition game at the cost of the real games his team is paying him big money for. Selfish and unacceptable, IMO.

3 His velocity was way down in camp.

4 He spoke to the media after Sundays blown save and said nothing of an injury, had no ice on his shoulder, and seemed fine (LenIII's words).

Based on all this information, it seems perfectly reasonable to consider that one of the following happened:

He has been hurt for some time now, and hid it.

Or, he got lazy on the offseason, neglected to strengthen his shoulder, and is not "technically " injured, but rather needs a few weeks to strengthen the shoulder, something that he should have done over the offseason.

There may be a perfectly innocuous explanation, and the team could do him a favor by explaining it, but until they do its legitimate to speculate.

 

Just more evidence that things are just a little too cozy with respect to accountability for certain vets who have demonstrated "loyalty."

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure my wife would just jump on the insult dog-pile if it was me.

ya, my wife would say "buck up buttercup"

 

He was only throwing 91 MPH the other night when he was giving up lasers. Curious when the injury occurred, and if anyone has asked. 

Good thing- he might have given up a laser that caught him on the chin.  He was probably DL'd for his own safety.

Am I the only one who thinks that the Twins are better with Perkins on the DL and not "closing" games for them?

 

Newsflash, when you're rebuilding and one of your top assets with the most value is a closer- you trade him to further the rebuild- whether he's a "loyal" local boy, or not.

 

What rebuild?!?!?!?!?!