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KLAW top 50

Mike Sixel

By Mike Sixel
in Twins Minor League Talk

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Seth Stohs GOAT

Seth Stohs

Owner
Posted
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KLAW has posted his top 50 prospects..........

 

Buxton is number 2

Berrios is number 26, and he's a bit confused why Nolasco is up, and Berrios is not

Kepler is number 33

 

If you like this kind of stuff, ESPN Insider isn't that costly......

 

He must not have watched Berrios pitch this spring... He'll come up, but it's not about service time right now. 

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Seth Stohs GOAT

Seth Stohs

Owner
Posted
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i would guess that he'd say "I don't put much stock in outcomes in spring training".

 

Had nothing to do with the outcomes. Had to do with complete lack of command of his pitches.

 

Again, he'll be fine, but definitely understandable that he isn't there opening day.

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clutterheart First Round Pick

clutterheart

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Had nothing to do with the outcomes. Had to do with complete lack of command of his pitches.

 

Again, he'll be fine, but definitely understandable that he isn't there opening day.

 

Come now Seth.  Its a defensible decision and there is no need to condemn the FO for having Berrios down in AAA.  But its ridiculous to even imply that Nolasco beat out Berrios and deserves to be in the MLB rotation over him.  (May too for that matter, but that is a different topic)

 

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alarp33 GCL Twins

alarp33

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Come now Seth.  Its a defensible decision and there is no need to condemn the FO for having Berrios down in AAA.  But its ridiculous to even imply that Nolasco beat out Berrios and deserves to be in the MLB rotation over him.  (May too for that matter, but that is a different topic)

 

Yeah, one of the most absurd things I've read on here.  

 

Totally justifiable to have Berrios in AAA, if I were running things I would as well... until late April.  To act like his command in 4 official innings, and a few unofficial Spring innings made him "lose out" is such a laughable statement.  

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bird College Ball

bird

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Actually, maybe the absurdity here is thinking that spring training game results is all the Twins field staff has to go by when assessing a guy's readiness. It's all WE have to go by, and yes, it's absurd to think we have much of a clue based on a few spring training innings.

 

I'm not convinced that Berrios would have come north with the club had he shown Allen and Molitor that he was ready to step right in and be lights out, but it's not beyond a reasonable doubt either. We don't know how much weight they might be putting on the question of service time. But it doesn't matter now.

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Dantes929 GCL Twins

Dantes929

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Come now Seth.  Its a defensible decision and there is no need to condemn the FO for having Berrios down in AAA.  But its ridiculous to even imply that Nolasco beat out Berrios and deserves to be in the MLB rotation over him.  (May too for that matter, but that is a different topic)

I don't like the May decision but understand it.    I don't like that Nolasco is in there but hope he does well.   I don't understand how anyone thinks Berrios or Nolasco is above Duffey in the pecking order.   Duffey was pitching every bit as well in the minors last year when called up and except for one start was awesome and the primary reason we were in the race as long as we were.   Its not Nolasco over Berrios that is wrong.  It is Nolasco over Duffey.

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alarp33 GCL Twins

alarp33

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I don't like the May decision but understand it.    I don't like that Nolasco is in there but hope he does well.   I don't understand how anyone thinks Berrios or Nolasco is above Duffey in the pecking order.   Duffey was pitching every bit as well in the minors last year when called up and except for one start was awesome and the primary reason we were in the race as long as we were.   Its not Nolasco over Berrios that is wrong.  It is Nolasco over Duffey.

 

I don't think anyone has claimed Berrios is for sure ahead of Duffey in the pecking order, I won't be shocked if Duffey is up in April, and Berrios not until May.  

 

That being said, Berrios is a better pitcher than Duffey, which is why you hear more talk about wanting to get him in the rotation ASAP.  

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Steve Lein Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

Steve Lein

Twins Daily Contributor
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Berrios was fantastic the other day on the back fields. Bob Sacamento (I think) posted his line: 5 IP, 2 H's, 8 K's.

 

Law has come around a little on the Twins system, but that's more because they've been so bad and got some real talent into it due to high draft picks. He still absolutely hates how they handle promotions, prospect timelines, and what not. And I don't disagree with him at all about those things.

 

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alarp33 GCL Twins

alarp33

Provisional Member
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He still absolutely hates how they handle promotions, prospect timelines, and what not. And I don't disagree with him at all about those things.

 

I have read basically everything he has written for years now, and this just isn't true at all.  Do you have any evidence of this?

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Steve Lein Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

Steve Lein

Twins Daily Contributor
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I have read basically everything he has written for years now, and this just isn't true at all.  Do you have any evidence of this?

 

Besides Buxton, each comment in this Top 50 post about the Twins prospects is alluding to these facts... I would say you're not paying enough attention to what you're reading from him.

 

"The Twins chose to give Ricky Nolasco, who hasn't been effective since the Bush Administration -- no, the one before that -- their fifth-starter spot over Berrios. I really have nothing else to add to this."

 

"Maybe the Twins didn't demote Kepler to Triple-A sooner because they were afraid it would look bad; you might say they didn't like … the optics."

 

I could find so many more if you really want me too...

 

He's probably answered at least 5 of my questions in his chats about Twins prospects over the years. 

 

One of them was about ABW and what he thought about his numbers in Low-A.

 

His response was basically "Twins don't know what they're doing as there is no reason this guy should be in that league. Those numbers should be expected. "

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alarp33 GCL Twins

alarp33

Provisional Member
Posted
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Besides Buxton, each comment in this Top 50 post about the Twins prospects is alluding to these facts... I would say you're not paying enough attention to what you're reading from him.

 

"The Twins chose to give Ricky Nolasco, who hasn't been effective since the Bush Administration -- no, the one before that -- their fifth-starter spot over Berrios. I really have nothing else to add to this."

 

"Maybe the Twins didn't demote Kepler to Triple-A sooner because they were afraid it would look bad; you might say they didn't like … the optics."

 

I could find so many more if you really want me too...

 

He's probably answered at least 5 of my questions in his chats about Twins prospects over the years. 

 

One of them was about ABW and what he thought about his numbers in Low-A.

 

His response was basically "Twins don't know what they're doing as there is no reason this guy should be in that league. Those numbers should be expected. "

 

You said he "He still absolutely hates how they handle promotions, prospect timelines, and what not." Yeah, he thinks Berrios is ready, and he'll probably be up in April or early May. I would hardly say that is evidence of that he hates how they handle promotions and timelines. 

 

Yeah I think you misunderstood the Kepler line, he has said he is probably ready, but there isn't a spot for him immediately, and he'll still probably get 400 at bats this year.  

 

ABW isn't a prospect, him playing in low A when he probably should've been in high a is fairly meaningless

 

Disagreeing with a singular move or two is far different than what you said, that he "hates how they handle promotions, prospect timelines"

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clutterheart First Round Pick

clutterheart

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I don't understand how anyone thinks Berrios or Nolasco is above Duffey in the pecking order.

 

Duffey had a career year  last year.  He pitched better than he ever did in College or the Minors. While Berrios has a long track record of success compared to Duffey.

 

Hopefully Duffey does well but in retrospect its strange that the FO didn't plan on Duffey potentially struggling because its not like they didn't know he "only" had 2 pitches.

 

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big dog GCL Twins

big dog

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I'm glad he still believes in Buxton at 2.  I know there's room to differ, but I'm looking for all the optimism I can get on BB (the) King.  

 

Also looking forward to seeing Berrios and Kepler at Target Field.  I have no idea what the difference is between 25 and 37 and 50, realistically, but it's great to have three guys in that ranking.

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Dantes929 GCL Twins

Dantes929

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Duffey had a career year  last year.  He pitched better than he ever did in College or the Minors. While Berrios has a long track record of success compared to Duffey.

 

Hopefully Duffey does well but in retrospect its strange that the FO didn't plan on Duffey potentially struggling because its not like they didn't know he "only" had 2 pitches.

I just don't agree with any of this.   It was his career year but it wasn't like he didn't build up to it.   2 seasons at AA with 3.41 ERA.   Two seasons at AAA with 2.75 ERA.    Berrios has  3.22 ERA in two seasons at AA and .3.2 ERA in two seasons at AAA along with zerio track record in the majors while Duffey after terrible debut against the best offense in baseball went 5-0 with 7 out of 9 quality starts and a 2.25 ERA in the heat of a pennant race..     Where is evidence that he is struggling?   He was working on a change up that got hit and put him behind in counts.    Did teams really figure him out in Spring Training?   I don't buy it.    I also don't buy the two pitch thing.   He has a knee buckling 3-9 curve ball and a sharp biting 11-7 curve ball and everything in between at different speeds which compliments a tailing fastball nicely.     Blyleven and Radke had less repertoire.    Now maybe his command isn't as good right now and maybe his curve ball isn't as good but ST numbers don't tell me that.    If they really want him to have a change up I am ok with him going down but the idea that he doesn't deserve a spot over Nolasco or Berrios has no factual support IMO.

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diehardtwinsfan Minnesota Twins

diehardtwinsfan

Community Moderator
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Duffy's peripherals have improved as he's moved up the chain. That's odd, though to be clear what Duffy did in MLB was better than his minor league career.  I still hold out hope that he can be a very good SP, but he clearly wasn't ready this spring, and I have no problems sending him down... May on the other hand... Poor planning is what led to that.

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Brock Beauchamp GOAT

Brock Beauchamp

Administrator
Posted
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Yeah, one of the most absurd things I've read on here.  

 

Totally justifiable to have Berrios in AAA, if I were running things I would as well... until late April.  To act like his command in 4 official innings, and a few unofficial Spring innings made him "lose out" is such a laughable statement.  

I'm not singling you out here but I want to make a point at large:

 

Using Spring Training innings to prove/disprove a decision is... well, dumb. The Twins aren't basing a decision in Spring Training over four innings... But they are basing a decision on those four innings, a multitude of side sessions, practices, and other things we don't get to see (well, most of us, anyway).

 

Maybe the Twins held down Berrios because of service time (but that's something they overlook whenever they feel like it so it's not really a defensible position to take)... but what's more likely is they got their coaches together after watching Berrios throw for several weeks and decided he could use some time in the minors. I doubt the four innings had much of an impact, if it had any impact at all.

 

There's a lot to Spring Training we don't get to see as fans and we shouldn't assume the team is basing their decisions on the stats we can quantify in a box score.

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alarp33 GCL Twins

alarp33

Provisional Member
Posted
Posted

 

I'm not singling you out here but I want to make a point at large:

 

Using Spring Training innings to prove/disprove a decision is... well, dumb. The Twins aren't basing a decision in Spring Training over four innings... But they are basing a decision on those four innings, a multitude of side sessions, practices, and other things we don't get to see (well, most of us, anyway).

 

Maybe the Twins held down Berrios because of service time (but that's something they overlook whenever they feel like it so it's not really a defensible position to take)... but what's more likely is they got their coaches together after watching Berrios throw for several weeks and decided he could use some time in the minors. I doubt the four innings had much of an impact, if it had any impact at all.

 

There's a lot to Spring Training we don't get to see as fans and we shouldn't assume the team is basing their decisions on the stats we can quantify in a box score.

 

I'm not sure a few weeks of side sessions tells a whole ton more than 4 spring training innings to be honest. 

 

I think they have multiple mediocre starting pitchers on long term contracts, wanted a lefty in the rotation, who all stayed healthy this Spring, so he never had a shot.  If he was given a real shot this Spring, he wouldn't have been sent to minor league camp in mid-March.  

 

I'll stick with my point that it's laughable to suggest his command in 3 weeks, and 4 official innings this Spring told them he couldn't pitch in the majors yet.  

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