Article: Early Camp Tidbits

[Nick Nelson]

Pitchers and catchers officially reported to Ft. Myers on Sunday, and today is the deadline for position players to show up, so spring training is officially underway in full force. The Twins will have their first full team workout on Saturday and the exhibition schedule gets underway next Wednesday when the club travels across town to face the Red Sox.

 

Here's some of the noteworthy buzz from the first week of preliminary spring action.* Mike Berardino of the Pioneer Press writes that reliever J.R. Graham is down more than 30 pounds after finishing the 2015 season at 210. The difference is noticeable, evidently, as Terry Ryan stated that Graham "looked like a different human being."

 

It will be interesting to see how the weight loss affects his performance on the mound. Velocity was the righty's calling card last season -- his 94.7 MPH average fastball speed ranked second only to Alex Meyer, who made two appearances -- but throwing hard isn't everything, as evidenced by his underwhelming final numbers.

 

If Graham trades in a few ticks of velo in exchange for improved command and effectiveness with his secondary offerings, that'd be just fine. He faces long odds to make the big-league bullpen out of spring training though.

 

* Graham isn't the only player who has shown up to camp noticeably lighter. Phil Miller notes that Kennys Vargas has trimmed down by 14 pounds after playing almost 40 games this winter between the Puerto Rican winter league and the Caribbean World Series.

 

Vargas is aiming for a bench spot this spring but has a steep uphill battle ahead of him with another slugging DH type (Oswaldo Arcia) ahead in line and the Twins likely to be targeting flexibility from backups.

 

* Rhett Bollinger writes that the Twins are "all in" on Miguel Sano's move to the outfield, as Paul Molitor has stated that the young slugger will not be playing any third base this year barring injury.

 

There are already 12 pages of discussion on this development in our forum, so I won't dwell on it too much. Suffice to say that if the still-developing Sano played almost no third base in the second half of last season and isn't going to play it at all this year, the writing is on the wall: he's not going to play the position in the major leagues. Of course, that much seemed clear to some of us three years ago.

 

* Two relievers who could play into the Twins' 2016 bullpen plans are toying with split-finger pitches in order to give hitters a different look this year. Berardino reports that righty Nick Burdi is tinkering with a split-finger fastball while Ryan O'Rourke has spent the offseason working on a split-change he learned from Eddie Guardado.

 

In both cases, the thought process makes a lot of sense. Burdi's splitter is said to register in the low 80s, almost 20 MPH slower than his average fastball velocity. This would give hitters a significantly different look compared to the barrage of scalding heaters and sliders. Meanwhile, O'Rourke's new offering is intended to keep right-handed hitters off-balance, a high priority given his historical troubles with them.

 

* Neal Cotts, who spent the final months of last season in Minnesota, signed a minor-league deal with the Astros earlier today. The Twins never showed much interest in him as a free agent and that's probably the right call given that he's not a clear upgrade over anything they currently have in camp.

 

Still, I remain surprised that Terry Ryan hasn't sought out another experienced lefty for the bullpen, and I continue to be curious about Matt Thornton, who is coming off a very solid season in Washington and remains a free agent as we prepare to flip the calendar to March. He's got to land somewhere soon.

 

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[Seth Stohs]

While I 1.) agree with you (Nick) at the beginning of the offseason that Thornton would be a nice pickup for the Twins on a one-year deal, it's important to know that 2.) none of the 30 teams have been willing to sign him to an MLB deal this year. 

 

I feel like there must be something that we don't know. He certainly doesn't throw as hard anymore, and that was obviously his calling card in his dominant days. To me, the fact that he isn't signed if a pretty big red flag. 

 

Also, I'll continue to say that Sano 'can' be a solid MLB 3B, just not as good as Plouffe. 

[nicksaviking]

I'm also not interested in Thornton. His peripheral numbers show he was not nearly as good as his counting stats would suggest. If he can't miss bats anymore, he's not worth it.

 

I don't like that Burdi is tinkering already. He's a fireballing reliever, those guys usually only need two pitches. He was pitching well the second half of last year. After his initial demotion he was giving up 5.4 H/9 the rest of the year, his main problem was free passes, I can't see how adding a new pitch would help with that. Why tinker unless what you're doing isn't working?

[youngpadawan]

If Cabrera can play 3rd so can Sano. If the position opens up (Trading Plouffe at the deadline or this next offseason) he can always move back. Which would open a position for Kepler along side Rosario and Buxton. For this season, it is probably a good idea to have him solely focused on a position he has never played. He has played SS and 3rd his whole life so a transition back should not effect him down the road.

[Dantes929]

 

 I don't like that Burdi is tinkering already. He's a fireballing reliever, those guys usually only need two pitches. He was pitching well the second half of last year. After his initial demotion he was giving up 5.4 H/9 the rest of the year, his main problem was free passes, I can't see how adding a new pitch would help with that. Why tinker unless what you're doing isn't working?

I see no harm in it.   If he can develop an off speed pitch with sink it will just make his heat more effective.    If it messes with his control then I am with you but no need to make that assumption.

[Seth Stohs]

 

I see no harm in it.   If he can develop an off speed pitch with sink it will just make his heat more effective.    If it messes with his control then I am with you but no need to make that assumption.

 

Agreed... a late-inning reliever with 3 strong pitches should be incredible... No harm in trying it! If he can go: 

 

FB at 97-100, SL at 88-91, and split-finger at 82-84... just work!

[TwinsTerritory]

Vargas is an interesting case to me.  If Park proves to be a major league caliber baseball player, is there really any scenario (outside of a Park/Mauer injury) in which Vargas is valuable to the Twins?  Mauer would really have to struggle to lose a spot in the line-up and by the time that happens there is a good chance that Sano may have to transition to a 1B/DH type.  This leaves me with a couple questions (both with the assumption that Park can hit).

 

1. How many options does Vargas have left?

2. If Vargas rakes at AAA, does he have value in a trade?

[DocBauer]

If Cabrera can play 3rd so can Sano. If the position opens up (Trading Plouffe at the deadline or this next offseason) he can always move back. Which would open a position for Kepler along side Rosario and Buxton. For this season, it is probably a good idea to have him solely focused on a position he has never played. He has played SS and 3rd his whole life so a transition back should not effect him down the road.

This.

 

Sano may not be the next Gatti or Koski...each a stiff defender early on who turned out excellent...but he may be even better offensively. Both of these guys probably could have been fine at 1B or the OF. Maybe even excellent. But their ability to play 3B and be big offensive producers, made them even more valuable as it allowed other quality players to assume the 1B and OF spots.

 

So while Sano focusing on the OF at this point is probably smart, I sure hope this doesn't turn out to be permanent.

[Rosterman]

There is a log jam happening in the outfield. Of course, Kepler could be groomed as a first baseman. Walker will need someplace to play. Who knows the longterm needs of Rosario. If Arcia shines, then we have a lot of trouble. Of course, anyone can be flipped (as the Twins have shown with their centerfield candidates of late.)

 

I'm thinking the Twins will still play wait and see on Sano at third. If there WAS no desire to have Sano play third, then this might've been the time to sign up Plouffe for 3 years with an option. Right now, if I was Plouffe, I would be more than happy with whatever arbitration will bring next season if the Twins are forced to keep him. If Sano is NOT the third baseman of the future, then barring a trade for a third bagger, the Twins will be forced to keep Plouffe, unless....

 

There is someone on the 2016 off-season scrap heap. But doubtful. Man, the twins 1B/DH/corner outfield situation is getting worse worse worse.

[jimmer]

It's my understanding Kepler is a plus defender, even in CF.  Is that right?  If it is, why would we want to move him to 1B eventually?  If/when Mauer gets moved off 1B, wouldn't it make more sense to move Sano to 1B and leave the plus defender, Kepler, in the OF?

[drjim]

It's my understanding Kepler is a plus defender, even in CF. Is that right? If it is, why would we want to move him to 1B eventually? If/when Mauer gets moved off 1B, wouldn't it make more sense to move Sano to 1B and leave the plus defender, Kepler, in the OF?

Yes. Though Kepler doesn't have the best arm, would probably be better in lf.

[nytwinsfan]

 

It's my understanding Kepler is a plus defender, even in CF.  Is that right?  If it is, why would we want to move him to 1B eventually?  If/when Mauer gets moved off 1B, wouldn't it make more sense to move Sano to 1B and leave the plus defender, Kepler, in the OF?

Nope, he's a above average to maybe plus defender in the corner, but not in CF. A plus defender in CF is a very pretty rare player. Some people even claim Kepler's likely to be only average in the corner once he puts on a little more muscle and bulk.

[Paul Pleiss]

I want to know more about Kurt and his motorcycle shop.

[Ncgo4]

Is it just me or is this the most critical Spring Training in memory for our Twins?  I don't ever remember as many questions about starting positions and roster spots ever.  In fact I don't remember any ST when we had 20% as many questions.

 

The potential new players include:

 

Byung Ho Park, A B Walker, Max Kepler, Ken Vargas, Byron Buxton, Oswaldo Arcia, Jorge Polanco, Jose Berrios, Nick Burdi, JT Chargois, Trevor Maye, Alex Meyer and Taylor Rogers.  There are others.

 

Some of these are currently on the roster in a kind of limbo status and some are long shots to be on the team.  All of them have someone(s) in front of them on the roster.  Any of them could have a spring training or early minor league season that might make them a compelling call up to the parent.  This means that the possibility exists that the Twins may have to decide if they need to eat some large contracts to improve the team.

 

In addition there are current front line players that may not perform in their current positions at levels considered adequate.  This could include Mauer, Escobar, Rosario, Dozier and several pitchers.

 

A crazy number of questions and a GM that hasn't been real quick to pull the trigger.  The most interesting watch, maybe ever.  Can hardly wait until I get down to Ft. Myers in March.

[Platoon]

I don't think the issue with Sano, for me at least,is playing RF as much as it is with the way it came about. Up until November the path was constant, even the DH, some third, hurt, and no third, stint last year made sense. Then remarkably they decided he could not replace Plouffe, and magically becomes a RF? It's either a case of an extreme lack of foresight and planning, or the Twins suddenly found out that third baseman have become worthless on the trade market. And as for the idea that 1B is his eventual home, that could be. But it's not as if we don't have enough of a log jam there also. On one other point, why is Burdi drinking around with a splitter. A notoriously hard pitch on elbows?

[terrydactyls]

On one other point, why is Burdi drinking around with a splitter. A notoriously hard pitch on elbows?

 

Isn't the splitter thrown edactly like a fastball, only with fingers split apart? Why would that make it more harmful to the elbow? I always thought that any pitch that involved snapping your wrist put more strain on the elbow than a straight pitch.

[Squirrel]

 

I don't think the issue with Sano, for me at least,is playing RF as much as it is with the way it came about. Up until November the path was constant, even the DH, some third, hurt, and no third, stint last year made sense. Then remarkably they decided he could not replace Plouffe, and magically becomes a RF? It's either a case of an extreme lack of foresight and planning, or the Twins suddenly found out that third baseman have become worthless on the trade market. And as for the idea that 1B is his eventual home, that could be. But it's not as if we don't have enough of a log jam there also. 

I get mentioning this in this thread, but we've had a number of threads devoted to this issue. I don't want a thread about ST tidbits to turn into another Sano thread. Just sayin' ...

[jimmer]

 

Is it just me or is this the most critical Spring Training in memory for our Twins?  I don't ever remember as many questions about starting positions and roster spots ever.  In fact I don't remember any ST when we had 20% as many questions.

 

The potential new players include:

 

Byung Ho Park, A B Walker, Max Kepler, Ken Vargas, Byron Buxton, Oswaldo Arcia, Jorge Polanco, Jose Berrios, Nick Burdi, JT Chargois, Trevor Maye, Alex Meyer and Taylor Rogers.  There are others.

 

Some of these are currently on the roster in a kind of limbo status and some are long shots to be on the team.  All of them have someone(s) in front of them on the roster.  Any of them could have a spring training or early minor league season that might make them a compelling call up to the parent.  This means that the possibility exists that the Twins may have to decide if they need to eat some large contracts to improve the team.

 

In addition there are current front line players that may not perform in their current positions at levels considered adequate.  This could include Mauer, Escobar, Rosario, Dozier and several pitchers.

 

A crazy number of questions and a GM that hasn't been real quick to pull the trigger.  The most interesting watch, maybe ever.  Can hardly wait until I get down to Ft. Myers in March.

What are the starting position questions?  The only one I can think of is whether or not they keep Buxton at CF.  

[Nick Nelson]

 

Vargas is an interesting case to me.  If Park proves to be a major league caliber baseball player, is there really any scenario (outside of a Park/Mauer injury) in which Vargas is valuable to the Twins?  Mauer would really have to struggle to lose a spot in the line-up and by the time that happens there is a good chance that Sano may have to transition to a 1B/DH type.  This leaves me with a couple questions (both with the assumption that Park can hit).

 

1. How many options does Vargas have left?

2. If Vargas rakes at AAA, does he have value in a trade?

Vargas was added to the 40-man roster after the 2013 season, so I believe this is his last option year.

 

That's the only question there that is remotely easy to answer. It's really hard to figure out what's going to happen with Vargas. As you mentioned, the only way he's getting into the lineup is injuries. There seemed to be some real frustration with him last year with the demotion to Double-A. 

 

I don't know that there's anything he can do in Triple-A that will boost his trade value by a ton. His only skill is hitting and until he proves that he can reliably do that in the majors there's not a lot of incentive to give up anything for him.

 

It'd be a shame to lose him for nothing though. I do think that he's going to eventually figure it out and be a quality MLB slugger. Maybe an opportunity will arise this year and he'll take advantage. 

[Dantes929]

 

It's my understanding Kepler is a plus defender, even in CF.  Is that right?  If it is, why would we want to move him to 1B eventually?  If/when Mauer gets moved off 1B, wouldn't it make more sense to move Sano to 1B and leave the plus defender, Kepler, in the OF?

I would guess Sano can be adequate in the outfield because I think he is faster and more athletic than people give him credit for but it is just a guess.   Even if he is adequate, average or maybe even a little above average I still foresee him being at 1st base or DHing for most of his career.   I dream of a Rosario, Buxton, Kepler outfield though I would have liked Hicks in there as a 4th outfielder to play against left handers  and give Buxton the occasional break.   I think Hicks would have been a big asset as a platoon player and defensive replacement.   Hopefully Murphy will make that trade look good.

[jimmer]

 

I would guess Sano can be adequate in the outfield because I think he is faster and more athletic than people give him credit for but it is just a guess.   Even if he is adequate, average or maybe even a little above average I still foresee him being at 1st base or DHing for most of his career.   I dream of a Rosario, Buxton, Kepler outfield though I would have liked Hicks in there as a 4th outfielder to play against left handers  and give Buxton the occasional break.   I think Hicks would have been a big asset as a platoon player and defensive replacement.   Hopefully Murphy will make that trade look good.

If you believe Hunter, he's given us a good indication that Sano in the OF is gonna be quite the ride, and not in a good way.  Molitor doesn't seem convinced in the comments he's given.  And I think there's more to the OF than just speed and athleticism.  I highly, highly doubt he's even close to average out there with his size and complete inexperience in the OF.

 

We will see though, clearly, since that's the plan

Edited February 27, 2016 by jimmer

[jorgenswest]

Rosario and his ability to hit enough is the key. They need his defense in LF. If he is in LF and Buxton in CF, the OF defense overall should be better than average even with Sano or Arcia in RF.

 

I would be very concerned about an OF with Rosario in CF and Arcia and Sano on the corners. There would be too many long innings, short starts and calls to the bullpen.

[jimmer]

 

Rosario and his ability to hit enough is the key. They need his defense in LF. If he is in LF and Buxton in CF, the OF defense overall should be better than average even with Sano or Arcia in RF.

I would be very concerned about an OF with Rosario in CF and Arcia and Sano on the corners. There would be too many long innings, short starts and calls to the bullpen.

If he could improve his OBP to consistently be in the .330s or higher, he'd be a very valuable player with the defense he's shown so far.

[DJL44]

Split your fingers apart and hold a ball. You can feel the tension all the way up your arm to the elbow. Roger Craig created and ruined a whole crop of prospects with the splitter in the 1980s.

[alskntwnsfn]

I still can't believe we are doing all this too keep Plouffe.

[spinowner]

 

I still can't believe we are doing all this too keep Plouffe.

I think we're doing all this because we were unable to trade Plouffe for what we all (including TR) think he's worth. As has been said before it's an unfortunate situation of a buyer's market for third basemen.

[howieramone2]

 

I still can't believe we are doing all this too keep Plouffe.

What exactly is all this we are doing? Our favorite team appears to have little confidence Sano can play 3rd in The Show. There is a myth floating around that the team is being built around Plouffe, but it's just another TD myth.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think we're doing all this because we were unable to trade Plouffe for what we all (including TR) think he's worth. As has been said before it's an unfortunate situation of a buyer's market for third basemen.

 

Another quote in the STrib today that he was never on the market.  You could read that as TR read the market beforehand or that he just held on to Plouffe for loyalty, but can we please just all accept that Plouffe was never shopped?  It's been made as plainly clear as humanly possible.

[spinowner]

 

can we please just all accept that Plouffe was never shopped?

I agree that this is the almost certainly the case. My guess is that TR never put out feelers because he knew that the market would be unfavorable. Even though it was widely speculated that Plouffe could be traded there was no reason to tip his hand in any way unless he thought a good deal could be struck.

[Dantes929]

 

If you believe Hunter, he's given us a good indication that Sano in the OF is gonna be quite the ride, and not in a good way.  Molitor doesn't seem convinced in the comments he's given.  And I think there's more to the OF than just speed and athleticism.  I highly, highly doubt he's even close to average out there with his size and complete inexperience in the OF.

 

We will see though, clearly, since that's the plan

I thought Danny Santana played quite competently in the outfield but Nunez and Escobar did not.   We won't find out if Sano can unless it is tried. and he gives us some evidence one way or another.   Arcia is a likely candidate to be the outfielder if Sano fails but Arcia, imo takes bad routes, is not that sure handed and plays every ball hit to the corner into a triple.    Should the bar be average or should the bar be Arcia?    Personally, I am hoping Kepler makes his move sooner than later.   Offensively though Park, Sano and Arcia have a lot of potential and some pieces have to move if Kepler, Buxton, and Rosario shine.  Season is right around the corner and I while I don't love the log jams and possible mismatched pieces I do like the apparent depth.