Sano won't play 3B AT ALL this year.

[darin617]

 

Isn't that just another variable that can alter plans? There's nothing wrong with Kepler going to AAA and proving that he can handle that level for a couple of months. If he dominates AAA for the first two months, then it's OK to alter thinking and lineup again. Sounds like a good situation to have too much talent. That hasn't been the case with the Twins for a while. 

My mistake, I should have said like what happens in 2017. I know injuries happen and you can expect everyone to pan out. I am leaning towards who would get dealt if all 4 outfielders turn into the stars we expect them to become.

[Squirrel]

 

These questions, and many more, will start receiving defining answers beginning Tuesday. And we may even be able to see for ourselves on Wednesday, as that one is being televised.

 

About damn time.

Er ... don't you mean Wednesday and Thursday?

[Craig Arko]

Er ... don't you mean Wednesday and Thursday?

I've been leap-yeared. I think so was the FSN schedule I saw, but I'm good with being wrong about that.

 

Thanks for the correction.

[howieramone2]

 

Then why not keep Hicks around until Kepler or someone unseats him? Instead, once again we are accommodating our roster and moving guys around for Trevor Plouffe.

No. We needed to address catcher. We cut the 2nd string, 3rd string, and 4th string. We brought in a young, healthy catcher who will start as a backup, and we also brought in a 3rd string. It had nothing to do with Plouffe.

[jokin]

 

Its nothing like putting Bartlett out there.  Their process is, we already have a solid 3B and we have plenty of question marks in the outfield.  Lets put Sano in RF so that at least we don't have a question mark about our OF offensive production.

 

Bartlett was put out there because we had no one else.  He was a question mark.  Its not like people were clamoring for him to be the everyday SS or something.

 

Wrong on every supposition.

 

Their process and thinking was previously and should have been now:

 

"We have a budding superstar- our only player ranked in MLBTV's Top 100- who we have been grooming and planning to play 3B for nearly 7 years, we're so sure about this, we didn't even have him play another position in 2015 in AAA while waiting for his callup- meanwhile,he's come in and taken MLB by storm in 2015, even amidst overcoming a year layoff to disastrous injury. He's earned the right to get the shot at 3rd to start the season. Meanwhile, we've known what we have in Plouffe for a long time now- let's give him a shot to best help the team in a Super-Utlity role. If Sano struggles at the position, Plouffe is waiting in the wings to reclaim the spot.

 

 

 

And Bartlett's saga is very similar to Sano's- the Twins making up a story to fit the situation they've buried themselves into.

[Riverbrian]

Wrong on every supposition.

 

Their process and thinking was previously and should have been now:

 

"We have a budding superstar- our only player ranked in MLBTV's Top 100- who we have been grooming and planning to play 3B for nearly 7 years, we're so sure about this, we didn't even have him play another position in 2015 in AAA while waiting for his callup- meanwhile,he's come in and taken MLB by storm in 2015, even amidst overcoming a year layoff to disastrous injury. He's earned the right to get the shot at 3rd to start the season. Meanwhile, we've known what we have in Plouffe for a long time now- let's give him a shot to best help the team in a Super-Utlity role. If Sano struggles at the position, Plouffe is waiting in the wings to reclaim the spot.

 

 

And Bartlett's saga is very similar to Sano's- the Twins making up a story to fit the situation they've buried themselves into.

Kyle Schwarber... Ian Desmond...

 

Kris Bryant played some OF last year and the Cubs just threw him out there.

 

Hanley... Yeah I know... but the Red Sox boldly went there because they've seen it done before.

 

The Orioles have jammed quite a few into the OF.

 

And... And... OF are moved to 1B frequently.

 

Sometimes you just gotta get a bat in the lineup.

 

Sano in RF with no minor league experience isn't new ground.

 

Bartlett was new ground... Bartlett was complete out of the box thinking.

 

Bartlett was an ex-Twin that was signed to be insurance for Hicks in the OF. Hicks ended up not cutting it and Bartlett quit because he looked even worse and it was done without a net. Bartlett was strangely chosen over other options.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Bartlett was an ex-Twin that was signed to be insurance for Hicks in the OF. Hicks ended up not cutting it and Bartlett quit because he looked even worse and it was done without a net. That was truly unique thinking.

People need to stop bringing up Bartlett to make a point. No one involved in the Bartlett decision is in a decision-making position with the team today. They're either out of the org (Gardy) or put back into their regular role (Antony).

 

Yes, it was a terrible decision. Yes, it makes me question whether Antony should be within 100 feet of the GM's chair.

 

No, it doesn't reinforce anyone's point about what Ryan and Molitor are doing today.

[Mike Sixel]

Other than Ryan put Antony in that position, and probably there were scouts involved that are still around.........sure.

[Riverbrian]

People need to stop bringing up Bartlett to make a point. No one involved in the Bartlett decision is in a decision-making position with the team today. They're either out of the org (Gardy) or put back into their regular role (Antony).

 

Yes, it was a terrible decision. Yes, it makes me question whether Antony should be within 100 feet of the GM's chair.

 

No, it doesn't reinforce anyone's point about what Ryan and Molitor are doing today.

Yep... I agree. I want to be on record that I agree. Just in case people think I don't agree because I was quoted to help make the point.

[alarp33]

 

People need to stop bringing up Bartlett to make a point. No one involved in the Bartlett decision is in a decision-making position with the team today. They're either out of the org (Gardy) or put back into their regular role (Antony).

 

Yes, it was a terrible decision. Yes, it makes me question whether Antony should be within 100 feet of the GM's chair.

 

No, it doesn't reinforce anyone's point about what Ryan and Molitor are doing today.

 

Terry Ryan was away from the team, but absolutely involved with baseball decisions that March. It was frequently written that he checked in with Antony often.  

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Terry Ryan was away from the team, but absolutely involved with baseball decisions that March. It was frequently written that he checked in with Antony often.  

Was he talking to Antony? Yeah, almost surely... But when it comes to the 25th man on the roster, a guy Ryan didn't actually see play during the entirety of spring training, it's damned hard to pin that decision on Terry unless you're pushing a personal agenda.

 

Exactly how much thought do you think Ryan put into Jason Bartlett while being treated for cancer in Rochester? The answer probably falls somewhere between "none" and "about 20 seconds".

 

There are plenty of reasons to dislike some of Ryan's decisions without bringing up a 25th man decision while the dude was being treated for cancer halfway across the country.

[alarp33]

 

Was he talking to Antony? Yeah, almost surely... But when it comes to the 25th man on the roster, a guy Ryan didn't actually see play during the entirety of spring training, it's damned hard to pin that decision on Terry unless you're pushing a personal agenda.

 

Exactly how much thought do you think Ryan put into Jason Bartlett while being treated for cancer in Rochester? The answer probably falls somewhere between "none" and "about 20 seconds".

 

There are plenty of reasons to dislike some of Ryan's decisions without bringing up a 25th man decision while the dude was being treated for cancer halfway across the country.

 

You are pushing the same personal agenda that you are accusing others of.  

 

You believe Terry Ryan had 0 involvement in roster decisions March of 2014. Others believe he had to have been involved.  To say with such certainty that he spent 0 time thinking about Bartlett is an opinion, just like its my opinion that if he talked to Antony, it was about the roster.  

 

He talked with Antony (who still reports to him) often, that is a fact. 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

You are pushing the same personal agenda that you are accusing others of.  

 

You believe Terry Ryan had 0 involvement in roster decisions March of 2014. Others believe he had to have been involved.  To say with such certainty that he spent 0 time thinking about Bartlett is an opinion, just like its my opinion that if he talked to Antony, it was about the roster.  

 

He talked with Antony (who still reports to him) often, that is a fact. 

I'm not pushing an agenda. The dude had cancer and was away from the team. It's highly unlikely he saw Bartlett play and basically impossible that he saw him work out or shag fly balls.

 

Yet we're pinning that horrible decision on him? Terry had to rely on Antony for information and if that information was flawed, it's not Terry's fault (unless you want to indirectly blame him for hiring Antony, a point I won't dispute).

 

I'm not pushing an agenda, I'm blaming the people who were actually there. That Bartlett decision is what permanently soured me on Antony ever being in the GM's chair so it's not like I'm ignoring the decision and its ramifications.

[alarp33]

 

I'm not pushing an agenda. The dude had cancer and was away from the team. It's highly unlikely he saw Bartlett play and basically impossible that he saw him work out or shag fly balls.

 

Yet we're pinning that horrible decision on him? Terry had to rely on Antony for information and if that information was flawed, it's not Terry's fault (unless you want to indirectly blame him for hiring Antony, I point I won't dispute).

 

I'm not pushing an agenda, I'm blaming the people who were actually there.

 

I will blame him for having Antony as his #2, but that discussion is for another time.  

 

I agree with you that at some point the Bartlett/ Kubel 2014 talk needs to end.  I also agree with you that Ryan didn't see Bartlett shag fly balls that Spring (though I'm sure he saw that he had 2 hits in 30+ at bats or whatever it ended up being).  

 

I just find it highly unlikely he gave Antony complete control to do with the roster as he pleased.  TR signed Bartlett and Kubel, and certainly signed off on their making the team.  I believe they were his only bats signed that offseason. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I will blame him for having Antony as his #2, but that discussion is for another time.  

 

I agree with you that at some point the Bartlett/ Kubel 2014 talk needs to end.  I also agree with you that Ryan didn't see Bartlett shag fly balls that Spring (though I'm sure he saw that he had 2 hits in 30+ at bats or whatever it ended up being).  

 

I just find it highly unlikely he gave Antony complete control to do with the roster as he pleased.  TR signed Bartlett and Kubel, and certainly signed off on their making the team.  I believe they were his only bats signed that offseason. 

It's unlikely Antony had complete control but it's likely that lack of control applied to guys like Aaron Hicks, not Jason Bartlett. The guy was almost an afterthought in spring, as most 24/25th minor league invites are in March.

 

My goal isn't to defend Ryan, it's to point out there are plenty of reasons to hate Miguel Sano in the outfield without resorting to specious examples from two years ago when the guy wasn't even with the team in Florida.

[alarp33]

 

 

My goal isn't to defend Ryan, it's to point out there are plenty of reasons to hate Miguel Sano in the outfield without resorting to specious examples from two years ago when the guy wasn't even with the team in Florida.

 

The Kubel / Bartlett comparisons are far more valid IMO for Abad... He could get shelled all Spring and still have the upper hand on making the roster.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The Kubel / Bartlett comparisons are far more valid IMO for Abad... He could get shelled all Spring and still have the upper hand on making the roster.  

Yep. If the Twins do that...

 

*shakes head*

 

Boy, I hope Rogers has a very strong spring.

[laloesch]

 

Next up, Trevor Plouffe signs a 3 year extension. Will be 3B for foreseeable future. OHH BOY!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Already called it.  Long term extension is in the works for Plouffe.  

[laloesch]

I don't understand these proclamations the Twins make.  Why do it?  If he plays the whole season in the outfield so be it.  If he subs a few games at 3rd when Plouffe is off fine by me.  Weird.

[Bob Sacamento]

 

I don't understand these proclamations the Twins make.  Why do it?  If he plays the whole season in the outfield so be it.  If he subs a few games at 3rd when Plouffe is off fine by me.  Weird.

Well he's not even taking any reps at 3B in spring training which is just asinine.  He's solely working on OF defense and lord knows he needs to but not taking any infield practice is just stupid at this point.  Positional flexibility is highly underrated.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Was he talking to Antony? Yeah, almost surely... But when it comes to the 25th man on the roster, a guy Ryan didn't actually see play during the entirety of spring training, it's damned hard to pin that decision on Terry unless you're pushing a personal agenda.

A couple guys were cut from the 40-man to make room for Bartlett and Kubel.  I have a feeling that Terry Ryan had input on all of those moves during his absence, even if he wasn't the primary advocate for either player's inclusion. TR did, however, give them their contracts, which had late March opt outs and $1-2 million salaries if they made the MLB roster.  We also had a rumored late 3 year offer to Ervin Santana in March.

 

At least, I'd like to think TR had a hand in those decisions, because the alternative explanation -- that he really left the keys to Antony, Gardy, and company during a critical part of the year -- is a far greater indictment of his judgement.

[tobi0040]

 

Already called it.  Long term extension is in the works for Plouffe.  

 

Is this speculation, can't find anything.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Is this speculation, can't find anything.

Yes, very much speculation.  And exaggeration.

 

I think Plouffe's ceiling is low enough that an extension isn't really necessary to commit to him at 3B over Sano.  Give him his arb salary this year and next year, and when he hits FA, his market may not be all that different than David Freese this winter (no qualifying offer, yet still unsigned in March).

[Bob Sacamento]

 

Yes, very much speculation.  And exaggeration.

 

I think Plouffe's ceiling is low enough that an extension isn't really necessary to commit to him at 3B over Sano.  Give him his arb salary this year and next year, and when he hits FA, his market may not be all that different than David Freese this winter (no qualifying offer, yet still unsigned in March).

If Plouffe goes to arbitration next year, Twins are on the hook for about 10M at his current pace.  Given the current state of free agent 3B next offseason (Justin Turner, Martin Prado are the tops), it might behoove Terry Ryan to deal him.  Of course that will coincide with how much development Sano makes in RF but there cupboard is bare at 3B organizationally.  So a 3YR deal/extension isn't ludicrous at the right price (something like 3YR/30-36M)

[dxpavelka]

And we've seen WHAT that makes anyone believe he can play the outfield?  He'll likely struggle defensively no matter where he plays.  Why not leave him where he's comfortable.  We only have to go back about 11 months--Detroit opening week, to remember what things were like when every fly ball was and adventure.  Put the kid at 3B, where he's comfortable and bat him 4th, where he belongs and see what happens.  We all know that eventually he winds up at 1B and  then DH, but for now leave him where he can do the things defensively that he's done for the last 5 years and concentrate on using the lumber.

[dxpavelka]

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The 3B trade market (Freese still available, A's return for Lawrie, Reds return for Frazier)meant that the Twins would not get a great return for Plouffe, so they're wisely keeping a very good defensive SS who can hit 20 HR and drive in runs. 

 

No one is saying Sano is better at third base than Plouffe, so Sano moves. We didn't hear much about that possibility until around the Winter Meetings which is when we started hearing that the Twins would keep Plouffe. 

If Plouffe were actually "a very good defensive SS who can hit 20 HR"  we would not even be having this discussion.

[Seth Stohs]

 

If Plouffe were actually "a very good defensive SS who can hit 20 HR"  we would not even be having this discussion.

 

FanGraphs put his defensive WAR at 3.5 in 2015, and he hit 22 home runs, so... 

 

*Baseball-Reference put his Defensive WAR at 0.6, so better than average.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If Plouffe goes to arbitration next year, Twins are on the hook for about 10M at his current pace.  Given the current state of free agent 3B next offseason (Justin Turner, Martin Prado are the tops), it might behoove Terry Ryan to deal him.

We heard the same thing about the free agent 3B market this offseason, but the demand just wasn't there.  David Freese might still be unsigned by next winter.

 

The Twins might be able to get by with successive ~$10 mil one-year contracts for Plouffe until his performance drops or they no longer want him.  That's not bad.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

FanGraphs put his defensive WAR at 3.5 in 2015, and he hit 22 home runs, so... 

 

*Baseball-Reference put his Defensive WAR at 0.6, so better than average.

FYI, Defensive WAR contains the positional adjustment.  You don't want that if you are comparing him to other 3B.  His Rfield at B-Ref, or "Fielding" run value at Fangraphs, is more appropriate.  And he has been above average in both of those marks too for the past two seasons, so your point stands regardless.  

[Shaitan]

 

I don't understand these proclamations the Twins make.  Why do it?  If he plays the whole season in the outfield so be it.  If he subs a few games at 3rd when Plouffe is off fine by me.  Weird.

proc·la·ma·tion
ˌpräkləˈmāSH(ə)n/
noun
a public or official announcement, especially one dealing with a matter of great importance.

 

Let's not blow things out of perspective. This wasn't some notarized legal document, it was an offseason press conference to local media. This is just "a thing Molitor said one day," not an official statement to be held in a court of law.