Sano won't play 3B AT ALL this year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I agree.  If they trade Plouffe or Plouffe goes on the 60 day DL, I bet we see Sano move over.  If Plouffe is healthy or minor injuries, it will be Eduardo Nunez.

The Twins haven't traded a non-pending FA starter midseason in years.  I also don't recall the last time one of our starting position players went on the 60-day DL.  I'd guess the odds of either of those things happening is, what, 5%?

 

In other words, Sano isn't playing 3B this year.  And Nunez will probably get ~20 starts there.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Then why not keep Hicks around until Kepler or someone unseats him? Instead, once again we are accommodating our roster and moving guys around for Trevor Plouffe.

I wasn't a big fan of the Hicks trade. My argument isn't that I like Sano in the OF - I've been pretty vocal about not liking the decision - it's the assumption the team is better with Kepler replacing Plouffe on Opening Day. That's a big assumption.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Again disaster at third is highly unlikely at this stage.

 

1. He looked fine at 3B in the majors last year, his SSS advanced metrics back this up as well.

2. The Twins themselves have been saying for5+ years that he can stick at 3B

3. The consensus from scouts across the board is that Sano could play 3rd base for at least the first few years of his major league career.

 

Why not take the risk? Everyone here seems so convinced that you can get a Freese or other good 3B for nothing in the trade market anyways, so in the rare event that Sano falls on his face at 3rd base (I'd say *;1 or 10:1 odds) then you can just trade for a 3rd baseman for nothing anyways, right?

He played nine games at third, Dave. That's not SSS, that's irrelevant data and tells us nothing.

[alarp33]

 

He'll certainly be better than Sano in right but Miguel might be a disaster at third, offsetting any gains.

 

Then why did the Twins organization say over and over and over again that Miguel Sano would stick at 3b? I'm not making this up, they said this as recently as last summer/fall. Do they need to re-evaluate and make changes to their minor league scounting and coaching staffs?

 

They changed their tune the moment they won the bidding for Park.  At the end of the day, this is all about not being able to move Plouffe for what they thought they would be able too.  

 

 

 

[jokin]

 

 

Then why not keep Hicks around until Kepler or someone unseats him? Instead, once again we are accommodating our roster and moving guys around for Trevor Plouffe.

 

IMO, Ryan was going to move Hicks no matter what- he'd completely worn out his welcome to Ryan's patience level.  Meanwhile, the Twins have always given Plouffe wide sway (he "tried out" for 4 positions before settling in at 3rd). So now they have the one true player on the roster recognized as a "Top 100 Right Now" superstar, and they're willingly putting him in an entirely unfamiliar position- and in the process, the Twin's 2016 OF defensive prospects in jeopardy- (and this after steadfastly force-feeding Sano exclusively at 3rd over his entire minor league career)-

 

Strange long-term planning by the braintrust.

[alhweiner]

 

I think their actions clearly show they don't think he play third.

I think their actions clearly show that they want Sano to concentrate full-time on playing his NEW POSITION (RF).

I think this issue exists entirely inside the heads of posters who have never coached at any level.

[DaveW]

 

 

.....Just read about Miguel Sano's lack of preparation for the transition to playing outfield in the MAJOR LEAGUES over the off-season. (thanks TwinkieTown) Looks like he really, really doesn't want to play outfield.

I wouldn't either if I were him, I would be pissed if I was Miguel and I would be pissed if I were his (new) agent.

 

I love how the Twins are also "concerned" about his weight as well, who gives a **** about his weight if he puts up a .900 OPS , 35 bombs and can hold his own at third?

 

Sano hits the ball hard and has a little bit of swagger, thus he isn't the "Twins way" scrappy player they are used to, so instead of actually letting Sano do his thing and stay at his natural position they are making comments about his weight and sticking him at a position he hasn't played before. Sort of brings back nightmares of when the Twins had another young slugger from the DR and made these sort of comments....and tried to "fix" his swing....hmm

 

 

Sano is an MVP type talent, you build AROUND players like that, you don't force players like that to play out of position for a guy like Trevor Plouffe and a complete unknown like Park. Only the Twins...only the Twins...

 

 

[Reider]

 

 

Teams would find themselves in quite the pickle if the only way they were able to promote players were once they had outperformed the player they would be replacing.  What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

 

Teams would find themselves in quite the pickle if the only way they were able to promote players were once they had outperformed the player they would be replacing.  What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

 

 

Sano had no problems earning a job at the MLB level, what are the other guys' excuses? They are getting opportunities, which they need to capitalize on.

[DaveW]

 

 

He played nine games at third, Dave. That's not SSS, that's irrelevant data and tells us nothing.

I was at 2  of them and saw the other 7, he looked perfectly fine at third, not to mention he looked fine at 3rd in AAA as well.

 

Convenient how you ignored the other two points of my post.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If you're planning on him being your everyday RF and the outfield is new to him, then you want him to put all of his focus learning RF and practicing RF.  You don't want to divide his attention and time preparing to play 3B when he would only play there 20 games at most.

 

If the Twins get a great offer for Plouffe during the season, its entirely possible that they shift Sano to 3B full time midseason, but if they don't, they NEED Sano to spend all of his time honing his RF skills.

A lot of folks are suggesting the Twins pushed Sano out of the DH spot to help control his weight.

 

Wouldn't it be a fantastic way to control his weight to require extra work to stay prepared for both RF and 3B duty during the season?

 

Plus, you know, the side benefit of trading 20 Nunez starts for 20 Sano starts...

[alarp33]

 

Again disaster at third is highly unlikely at this stage.

 

1. He looked fine at 3B in the majors last year, his SSS advanced metrics back this up as well.

2. The Twins themselves have been saying for5+ years that he can stick at 3B

3. The consensus from scouts across the board is that Sano could play 3rd base for at least the first few years of his major league career.

 

Why not take the risk? Everyone here seems so convinced that you can get a Freese or other good 3B for nothing in the trade market anyways, so in the rare event that Sano falls on his face at 3rd base (I'd say *;1 or 10:1 odds) then you can just trade for a 3rd baseman for nothing anyways, right?

 

Ha I posted nearly the same thing.  

 

Twins win bidding for Park.  Twins realize they have a logjam.  Twins gauge the market for Plouffe, and realize no one wants an avg, getting expensive 3b.  Twins panic and move Sano to RF.  

 

This has nothing to do with Miguel Sano's ability to play 3b. This has everything to do with short sightedness when it comes to the Park bidding, and what to do from there. 

[DaveW]

 

 

I think it is telling (not sure what it tells though)   that we've got Milone who has a better career ERA than any of our starters and was 2nd on the team last year and beats the league average for both and we've got Plouffe who has led the team in RBI the last two seasons and they are the two prime players that fans want gone.     Now I am not saying these people are wrong but you do need some guys on the team that perform to their ceiling even if their ceiling does not appear to be as high.   

I think most people would prefer Milone over Hughes or Nolasco at this stage, but the problem is Hughes and Nolasco are stuck here for a while. People want Milone gone because he actually has trade value and thus opens up a spot for Berrios or May.

[clone52]

 

The Twins haven't traded a non-pending FA starter midseason in years.  I also don't recall the last time one of our starting position players went on the 60-day DL.  I'd guess the odds of either of those things happening is, what, 5%?

 

In other words, Sano isn't playing 3B this year.  And Nunez will probably get ~20 starts there.

 

Exactly.  Neither of those things are likely to happen.  It makes no sense to have Sano switch between 3B and RF and be ready to play both if he would only make 20 starts at most at 3B.  Better to concentrate fully on RF.  Not to mention that pitchers are going to adjust to Sano and he is going to have to work on adjusting to pitchers on top of that.  Better to give a rookie fewer things to worry about.  I don't understand why most people don't get that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Pujols has been regularly cited as an example of shifting a great young hitter to a new position, to justify moving Sano to RF.

 

Well, Pujols was shifted all over the diamond for his first 2 seasons, a lot more than just sprinkling regular backup 3B duty in with a starting RF gig.

 

Not sure these guys really need exclusive reps in the OF to maximize their value/benefit to the team.

[MileHighTwinsFan]

 

 I don't feel like this is news. For the foreseeable future he is a RF. The Twins are committed to that... It says nothing about their belief in his ability to play 3B. Guys can come up playing one position, but at the end, it's about finding an opportunity. For Sano right now that's right field. 

 

If Plouffe were to be traded in July, the situation changes. But if Sano is going to be the right fielder, he needs as many reps and as much time out there as they can get him. 

 

This is the same message as they gave on Santana.  Young players who are still establishing themselves in the big leagues should focus their efforts as much as possible.   Having Sano and Santana focus on OF full time simplifies things for them, which will in turn will help their overall game - defensively and offensively.

[alarp33]

 

.  Better to give a rookie fewer things to worry about.  

 

Like playing OF for the 1st time in his baseball life?

[clone52]

 

I think most people would prefer Milone over Hughes or Nolasco at this stage, but the problem is Hughes and Nolasco are stuck here for a while. People want Milone gone because he actually has trade value and thus opens up a spot for Berrios or May.

 

Nolasco won't be blocking anyone unless he actually produces.  He has the history of being very bad, so on the off chance he makes the rotation, he'll be on a very short leash.  Hughes on the other hand does have some history of being pretty good, will start in the rotation and would be on a much longer leash before pulling the plug.

 

You're right about Milone, though.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Pujols has been regularly cited as an example of shifting a great young hitter to a new position, to justify moving Sano to RF.

 

Well, Pujols was shifted all over the diamond for his first 2 seasons, a lot more than just sprinkling regular backup 3B duty in with a starting RF gig.

 

Not sure these guys really need exclusive reps in the OF to maximize their value/benefit to the team.

Agreed. I don't like Sano in the OF but I *hate* Molitor's statement. Not only was it unnecessary, it seems like a bad decision.

[bustedstuff88]

Apologies if it has already been mentioned, but I think the larger issue here is that if Sano is your permanent RF going forward, and Buxton will inevitably be the CF sooner or later, where does that leave either Rosario or Kepler?? Cant have 4 guys out there at once. Seems like a big waste of spot on Sano when you have much more optimal OF's in Rosario and Kepler.

 

This is quite alarming actually. Trade coming?

[Vanimal46]

This point was mentioned by RiverBrian, Brock, and others, and it's worth mentioning again. I just don't see the advantage of Molitor giving a statement like that. At the end of freaking February.... Even if it's not true, this is the time of year where it's supposed to be duckies and bunnies, "We have a ton of guys competing for every spot on the field, so much versatility in our lineup, blah blah blah." 

Why reveal your cards this early in the season?   

[alhweiner]

Better to give a rookie fewer things to worry about.

Like Better to give a rookie fewer things to worry about.in his baseball life?

Which is fewer things than THAT AND playing 3B.

[alarp33]

 

Apologies if it has already been mentioned, but I think the larger issue here is that if Sano is your permanent RF going forward, and Buxton will inevitably be the CF sooner or later, where does that leave either Rosario or Kepler?? Cant have 4 guys out there at once. Seems like a big waste of spot on Sano when you have much more optimal OF's in Rosario and Kepler.

 

This is quite alarming actually. Trade coming?

 

I think this is a make or break year for Rosario in MN

[Reider]

 

I was at 2  of them and saw the other 7, he looked perfectly fine at third, not to mention he looked fine at 3rd in AAA as well.

 

Convenient how you ignored the other two points of my post.

Honestly, from the little I saw of Sano at 3rd base, I thought he looked just fine and he has a very strong arm. I would have been just fine with Sano playing 3rd base this year. In fact, I'm not against it at all. The issue isn't myself or other people on here, it's that the Twins decided to not only keep Plouffe, but keep him at 3rd base. That's out of our control.

 

I'm just trying to stay positive. Here's the way I look at it. Sano's bat will be in the line up. If moving him to RF is a disaster, they will have to make some adjustments. If he ends up doing OK out there, that's going to open up a lot of flexibility for the Twins moving forward. He can either a) Stay in the outfield Move to 3rd base when Plouffe is gone c) Move to 1st when Mauer is gone or D) DH

 

I wouldn't worry too much, things will work out one way or another.

[clone52]

 

Apologies if it has already been mentioned, but I think the larger issue here is that if Sano is your permanent RF going forward, and Buxton will inevitably be the CF sooner or later, where does that leave either Rosario or Kepler?? Cant have 4 guys out there at once. Seems like a big waste of spot on Sano when you have much more optimal OF's in Rosario and Kepler.

 

This is quite alarming actually. Trade coming?

 

Thats a good problem to have.  Lets say Sano turns into an above average RF and they want to keep him there for the next few years at least.  Lets also say that Rosario and Kepler prove they are starting level OFs in the majors.  Then you've got a nice trade piece in the future.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Exactly.  Neither of those things are likely to happen.  It makes no sense to have Sano switch between 3B and RF and be ready to play both if he would only make 20 starts at most at 3B.  Better to concentrate fully on RF.  Not to mention that pitchers are going to adjust to Sano and he is going to have to work on adjusting to pitchers on top of that.  Better to give a rookie fewer things to worry about.  I don't understand why most people don't get that.

Huh?  20 games is 20 games.  We just missed the playoffs by 2-3 games last season, a year where we left Sano in the minors for an extra 3-4 weeks, during our worst month, to give Vargas "one last chance" (and to start Mauer virtually every day).***

 

We know how important these decisions can be, I don't know why we'd knowingly make ourselves weaker for 20 games (for a rather esoteric benefit of helping Sano play defensive catch-up in the OF after we denied him experience there in past seasons and even this offseason).

 

 

*** Between June 8th (Correa's call up) and July 2nd (Sano's), 22 team games, we lost 6 by 1 or 2 runs. In our starting lineups those 6 games:

 

Mauer (5)

Vargas (3)

Nunez (2)

Robinson (2)

Santana (1)

Escobar in LF (1)

 

Now tell me how we're better off playing Nunez over Sano for 20 games in 2016 so Sano can have a season-long defensive crash course on playing RF...

[clone52]

 

This point was mentioned by RiverBrian, Brock, and others, and it's worth mentioning again. I just don't see the advantage of Molitor giving a statement like that. At the end of freaking February.... Even if it's not true, this is the time of year where it's supposed to be duckies and bunnies, "We have a ton of guys competing for every spot on the field, so much versatility in our lineup, blah blah blah." 

Why reveal your cards this early in the season?   

 

You reveal your cards this early so that your players know what is expected of them.  Sano spends all of his fielding drills with the OF instead of splitting time with the IF.  If you don't reveal your cards and reporters notice Sano is not taking defensive reps at 3B, they are going to keep asking the questions and it becomes a distraction to the team.  If you don't want to reveal your cards early and have Sano take reps at 3B, you are just wasting his time if you have no plans to play him there.  Might as well have Rosario take reps at 2B just in case.

 

Its not like other teams are going to game plan around whether Sano is in RF or at 3B.

 

If you really think its about strategy, then maybe the strategy is raising the value of Trevor Plouffe.  Maybe there are teams out there sniffing around Plouffe thinking the Twins have Sano at 3B and thinking they can get Plouffe on the cheap.  If the Twins convince those teams that they are committed to Sano in RF, those teams make make more significant offers for Plouffe.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

This is the same message as they gave on Santana.  Young players who are still establishing themselves in the big leagues should focus their efforts as much as possible.   Having Sano and Santana focus on OF full time simplifies things for them, which will in turn will help their overall game - defensively and offensively.

By wRC+, Sano was the 9th best hitter in MLB last year (min. 300 PA).  The notion that Sano's offensive game needs help like that of Santana is laughable.  As is the idea that a full-time shift to a position he's never played before is "simplifying" things for Sano's benefit.

[clone52]

 

Huh?  20 games is 20 games.  We just missed the playoffs by 2-3 games last season, a year where we left Sano in the minors for an extra 3-4 weeks, during our worst month, to give Vargas "one last chance" (and to start Mauer virtually every day).***

 

We know how important these decisions can be, I don't know why we'd knowingly make ourselves weaker for 20 games (for a rather esoteric benefit of helping Sano play defensive catch-up in the OF after we denied him experience there in past seasons and even this offseason).

 

 

*** Between June 8th (Correa's call up) and July 2nd (Sano's), 22 team games, we lost 6 by 1 or 2 runs. In our starting lineups those 6 games:

 

Mauer (5)

Vargas (3)

Nunez (2)

Robinson (2)

Santana (1)

Escobar in LF (1)

 

Now tell me how we're better off playing Nunez over Sano for 20 games in 2016 so Sano can have a season-long defensive crash course on playing RF...

 

Sano is going to be playing those 20 games no matter what.  The real question is are we better off Nunez playing or a guy who had a .630 OPS in AAA last year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If you really think its about strategy, then maybe the strategy is raising the value of Trevor Plouffe.  Maybe there are teams out there sniffing around Plouffe thinking the Twins have Sano at 3B and thinking they can get Plouffe on the cheap.  If the Twins convince those teams that they are committed to Sano in RF, those teams make make more significant offers for Plouffe.

The Twins are often cited as straight shooters, I doubt Molitor's statement has anything to do with inflating Trevor Plouffe's trade value.

 

And if helping Trevor Plouffe's trade value played any role in the decision to start Nunez over Sano for 20 games this year, then it would be an epically bad decision indeed.

[bustedstuff88]

 

Thats a good problem to have.  Lets say Sano turns into an above average RF and they want to keep him there for the next few years at least.  Lets also say that Rosario and Kepler prove they are starting level OFs in the majors.  Then you've got a nice trade piece in the future.

Devils advocate here, but what if the other side of the coin becomes true, and Sano isn't a competent OF at all and becomes Arcia 2.0? Then do we force a Plouffe trade to get him back at 3rd? What if Park is lighting it up in the DH spot? Bench him to put Sano in at DH? Bench Mauer and put Sano at 1st? (this is said in jest...we all know Mauer wont get benched no matter what his level of play is)