Sano won't play 3B AT ALL this year.

[Craig Arko]

Molitor: "Something I thought of while singing in the shower this morning..."

 

TD: "Written on stone tablets..."

 

[TheLeviathan]

I would hope that if they are moving him to the outfield it is with the intention of being permanent.  If it's not, they are costing themselves time for him to develop his athleticism into viable play at 3B.

 

If this is thought to be a temporary move with a return back there in the future or a switch back in case of injury, I think it's totally unjustifiable mismanagement of your personnel.  

[tobi0040]

 

I would hope that if they are moving him to the outfield it is with the intention of being permanent.  If it's not, they are costing themselves time for him to develop his athleticism into viable play at 3B.

 

If this is thought to be a temporary move with a return back there in the future or a switch back in case of injury, I think it's totally unjustifiable mismanagement of your personnel.  

 

Yeah.  If they have internally concluded there is no way under any circumstance he can hack it at 3B, riving RF a shot isn't the end of the world. 

 

If they are doing this to keep Plouffe's bat in the lineup (in place of a guy like Arcia or FA RF) and moving Sano back, then it  makes no sense at all to me.

[Platoon]

This just occurred to me! To test the philosophy that the 3B market is as weak as stated, maybe they should put Sano and Plouffe on the block. The offers for each would be an indication of the relative value of each player. I think it would be a fun exercise!

[Platoon]

The bottom line is Sano is the RF. The only thing that will change that is an injury, heaven forbid! Even if he is a compilation of Willingham, EE, and the last iteration of Jason Kubel, they are not pulling the pin on the "Sano Experiment"! Between the amount of money invested in Park, Mauers remaining contract, the Plouffe intrangience, and FO pride, to do so would be a seismic event. Ain't gonna happen!

[laloesch]

 

Is this speculation, can't find anything.

 

 

Of course it's speculation and a little sarcasm for that matter.  Do you want me to hand it to you on a silver spoon?

[laloesch]

 

proc·la·ma·tion
ˌpräkləˈmāSH(ə)n/
noun
a public or official announcement, especially one dealing with a matter of great importance.

 

Let's not blow things out of perspective. This wasn't some notarized legal document, it was an offseason press conference to local media. This is just "a thing Molitor said one day," not an official statement to be held in a court of law.

 

 

I beg to differ and i don't think it's "blowing things out of perspective."  If its "just a thing Molitor said one day," he wouldn't have said it.  PERIOD. 

 

Look at what the news outlets are saying.  "Paul Molitor said on Wednesday that -- barring an injury to Trevor Plouffe -- Sano isn't expected to see time at his former third-base position." -The Chattanoogan

 

Sounds pretty definitive if you ask me.  And yes, i do understand the definition of proclamation and the Twins are notorious for making "proclamations" about certain players in the past.  I don't think ANYONE here believes this is 100% etched in stone (or a notarized legal document to be used in court as you put), but the fact remains that Molitor said it to the media and Ryan has more or less reiterated this is pretty damning don't you think?

[Craig Arko]

 

I beg to differ and i don't think it's "blowing things out of perspective."  If its "just a thing Molitor said one day," he wouldn't have said it.  PERIOD. 

 

Look at what the news outlets are saying.  "Paul Molitor said on Wednesday that -- barring an injury to Trevor Plouffe -- Sano isn't expected to see time at his former third-base position." -The Chattanoogan

 

Sounds pretty definitive if you ask me.  And yes, i do understand the definition of proclamation and the Twins are notorious for making "proclamations" about certain players in the past.  I don't think ANYONE here believes this is 100% etched in stone (or a notarized legal document to be used in court as you put), but the fact remains that Molitor said it to the media and Ryan has more or less reiterated this is pretty damning don't you think?

I'm not sure 'damning' and 'not blown out of perspective' really belong together.

[laloesch]

 

I'm not sure 'damning' and 'not blown out of perspective' really belong together.

 

whatever man.  literal in everything you type and say are we?

[gocgo]

Here's my take/spin on Sano in the OF.  It's about winning now.

 

I think we can all agree that defensively, Plouffe is stronger at 3rd. Not that Sano can't get there, but right now, Plouffe is the stronger defender.  Trade Plouffe?  Only if your going to get an OF that hits 25 dingers and plays great D.  I don't see that happening.

 

I think we can all agree that Sano's bat needs to be in the lineup.

 

Right or wrong, Joe will be the 1B.  It is what it is.

 

Park was not signed to ride the pine.  He will be the DH until he proves that he can't.

 

So, where does that leave Sano?  The outfield...unless Park fails.

 

Right now, there is only one spot for Sano.

[alarp33]

 

Here's my take/spin on Sano in the OF.  It's about winning now.

 

I think we can all agree that defensively, Plouffe is stronger at 3rd. Not that Sano can't get there, but right now, Plouffe is the stronger defender.  Trade Plouffe?  Only if your going to get an OF that hits 25 dingers and plays great D.  I don't see that happening.

 

 

 

"An OFer who hits 25 dingers and plays great D" is an odd way to conclude we are better off with Plouffe in the lineup.  Seeing as Plouffe; 1) Plays avg D at 3rd (agree it would be better than could be expected of Sano) 2) Doesn't hit 25 home runs (has averaged 18.5 over past 4 years) 3) 18.5 home runs really isn't that big of deal since he loses much of his perceived "power value" because he can't get on base. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Here's my take/spin on Sano in the OF.  It's about winning now.

 

I think we can all agree that defensively, Plouffe is stronger at 3rd. Not that Sano can't get there, but right now, Plouffe is the stronger defender.  Trade Plouffe?  Only if your going to get an OF that hits 25 dingers and plays great D.  I don't see that happening.

 

I think we can all agree that Sano's bat needs to be in the lineup.

 

Right or wrong, Joe will be the 1B.  It is what it is.

 

Park was not signed to ride the pine.  He will be the DH until he proves that he can't.

 

So, where does that leave Sano?  The outfield...unless Park fails.

 

Right now, there is only one spot for Sano.

That all makes sense... if you're only talking about the opening day lineup.  And that's all been known since November.

 

But what about when Plouffe needs a day off?  Or if he's nicked up and sits out a series?  Or if we have another outfielder like Arcia or Kepler forcing his way into more playing time?  That's the new statement, that Molitor will not use Sano at 3B in those situations, or anything short of "a rash of injuries" / emergency duty.

[dxpavelka]

 

FanGraphs put his defensive WAR at 3.5 in 2015, and he hit 22 home runs, so... 

 

*Baseball-Reference put his Defensive WAR at 0.6, so better than average.

None of which makes him a shortstop.

[Kwak]

 

proc·la·ma·tion
ˌpräkləˈmāSH(ə)n/
noun
a public or official announcement, especially one dealing with a matter of great importance.

 

Let's not blow things out of perspective. This wasn't some notarized legal document, it was an offseason press conference to local media. This is just "a thing Molitor said one day," not an official statement to be held in a court of law.

How does Molitor's statement compare to Gardenhire's statement (years ago) that "...re-signing Nick Punto is the #1 priority this off-season..."?  Equal? More or less definitive? 

[gocgo]

 

"An OFer who hits 25 dingers and plays great D" is an odd way to conclude we are better off with Plouffe in the lineup.  Seeing as Plouffe; 1) Plays avg D at 3rd (agree it would be better than could be expected of Sano) 2) Doesn't hit 25 home runs (has averaged 18.5 over past 4 years) 3) 18.5 home runs really isn't that big of deal since he loses much of his perceived "power value" because he can't get on base. 

Correct, but it wouldn't make sense to trade Plouffe and downgrade our defense at 3rd for an average OF that hits the same # of dingers.

[gocgo]

 

That all makes sense... if you're only talking about the opening day lineup.  And that's all been known since November.

 

But what about when Plouffe needs a day off?  Or if he's nicked up and sits out a series?  Or if we have another outfielder like Arcia or Kepler forcing his way into more playing time?  That's the new statement, that Molitor will not use Sano at 3B in those situations, or anything short of "a rash of injuries" / emergency duty.

Days off can be solved with Nunez. Injuries...ugh.  If it's a 15 day DL, filling in with Nunez is probably the right call rather than moving Sano in from the OF.  I'm guessing that Molly would backtrack if there was a season ending injury.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Days off can be solved with Nunez. Injuries...ugh.  If it's a 15 day DL, filling in with Nunez is probably the right call rather than moving Sano in from the OF.  I'm guessing that Molly would backtrack if there was a season ending injury.

Well, a lot of folks disagree that Nunez is a great "solution", that's kind of the crux of this discussion. Especially when we may potentially have a number of OF/DH/1B fighting for playing time, the option to stick Sano at 3B from time to time could be handy.

 

Forgoing that option, before spring training even starts, for the vague benefits of Sano "concentrating" on his new RF duties, seems sub-optimal, to say the least.  Especially when we've passed on opportunities to let Sano play the outfield before.

 

And while Molitor listed "a rash of injuries" as one of his possible conditions for change, at some point, keeping Sano away from 3B is going to impact those decisions too.  If it's July and Plouffe goes down, are we going to immediately put Sano back at 3B or will he be deemed too "rusty"?  Will Plouffe try to play injured if that's the case?  If we're not sure how long Plouffe will be out, will we try to patch for a month with Nunez first?  What if Plouffe is healthy, but Nunez gets hurt -- does Escobar become the occasional starter at 3B, so we see more Danny Santana starts at shortstop?

 

Again, it just seems sub-optimal to close the book on an obvious solution to all those contingencies before spring training even begins.

 

And that's not even getting into the question whether this is just an early indicator that the Twins don't want Sano playing 3B ever again...

[laloesch]

 

"An OFer who hits 25 dingers and plays great D" is an odd way to conclude we are better off with Plouffe in the lineup.  Seeing as Plouffe; 1) Plays avg D at 3rd (agree it would be better than could be expected of Sano) 2) Doesn't hit 25 home runs (has averaged 18.5 over past 4 years) 3) 18.5 home runs really isn't that big of deal since he loses much of his perceived "power value" because he can't get on base. 

 

 

My sentiment exactly.  He's nothing special.  League average defensive 3rd baseman at best with a bit of pop to his bat, prone to streak hitting, sub .250 hitter consistently.  

 

That said, compared to what the Twins had for years after Koskie he's an improvement.  What surprises me is the eagerness to move Sano to the outfield.  Plouffe is only under contract for one more year.  If they don't sign him to an extension after next season (2017) he's a free agent.

[gocgo]

 

Well, a lot of folks disagree that Nunez is a great "solution", that's kind of the crux of this discussion. Especially when we may potentially have a number of OF/DH/1B fighting for playing time, the option to stick Sano at 3B from time to time could be handy.

 

Forgoing that option, before spring training even starts, for the vague benefits of Sano "concentrating" on his new RF duties, seems sub-optimal, to say the least.  Especially when we've passed on opportunities to let Sano play the outfield before.

 

And while Molitor listed "a rash of injuries" as one of his possible conditions for change, at some point, keeping Sano away from 3B is going to impact those decisions too.  If it's July and Plouffe goes down, are we going to immediately put Sano back at 3B or will he be deemed too "rusty"?  Will Plouffe try to play injured if that's the case?  If we're not sure how long Plouffe will be out, will we try to patch for a month with Nunez first?  What if Plouffe is healthy, but Nunez gets hurt -- does Escobar become the occasional starter at 3B, so we see more Danny Santana starts at shortstop?

 

Again, it just seems sub-optimal to close the book on an obvious solution to all those contingencies before spring training even begins.

 

And that's not even getting into the question whether this is just an early indicator that the Twins don't want Sano playing 3B ever again...

All good questions and I'm guessing that the answers lie in what's going on down on the farm.  Let's say that Kepler or someone else is tearing it up in the minors.  If Plouffe would go down, rather than bringing up an infielder or settling for Nunez, maybe we are willing to put the big fella at 3rd and improve our OF by inserting Kepler or someone else.  We're going to have to have some flexibility and Molly's smart enough to know that.

[jokin]

 

People need to stop bringing up Bartlett to make a point. No one involved in the Bartlett decision is in a decision-making position with the team today. They're either out of the org (Gardy) or put back into their regular role (Antony).

 

Yes, it was a terrible decision. Yes, it makes me question whether Antony should be within 100 feet of the GM's chair.

 

No, it doesn't reinforce anyone's point about what Ryan and Molitor are doing today.

 

Your statement completely disregards the stale and insulated "culture" of the past 20+ years that fosters the ever-so-repetitive path to such obviously predictable "terrible decisions."

 

The negative feedback loop in conjuring up the justification of all-too-many of the roster decisions is so thoroughly entrenched, they aren't even aware of the folly in their all-too-often illogical rationales for doing some of the things they do.

[jokin]

 

Well, a lot of folks disagree that Nunez is a great "solution", that's kind of the crux of this discussion. Especially when we may potentially have a number of OF/DH/1B fighting for playing time, the option to stick Sano at 3B from time to time could be handy.

 

Forgoing that option, before spring training even starts, for the vague benefits of Sano "concentrating" on his new RF duties, seems sub-optimal, to say the least.  Especially when we've passed on opportunities to let Sano play the outfield before.

 

And while Molitor listed "a rash of injuries" as one of his possible conditions for change, at some point, keeping Sano away from 3B is going to impact those decisions too.  If it's July and Plouffe goes down, are we going to immediately put Sano back at 3B or will he be deemed too "rusty"?  Will Plouffe try to play injured if that's the case?  If we're not sure how long Plouffe will be out, will we try to patch for a month with Nunez first?  What if Plouffe is healthy, but Nunez gets hurt -- does Escobar become the occasional starter at 3B, so we see more Danny Santana starts at shortstop?

 

Again, it just seems sub-optimal to close the book on an obvious solution to all those contingencies before spring training even begins.

 

And that's not even getting into the question whether this is just an early indicator that the Twins don't want Sano playing 3B ever again...

 

Excellent post, nice drill-down on so many aspects of this terrible decision.

 

What is so wrong about finding out for a month or so to start out the season if Sano can hack it at 3rd at the major league level before putting all this "finality" on such an important decision?

 

And remember, Plouffe has spent time on the DL in each of his big league season's except for 2015. It's bound to happen- Nunez or even Santana might be able to plug the gap for a week or two, but any longer than that in a pennant race would probably cost them a valuable win or two... or three... losing a few winnable games in late June and into July proved disastrous come late September in 2015.

[LaBombo]

 

...the Twins are going to be stuck with one fewer such big bat, and instead will get a light-hitting 3B.

 

Oh, c'mon, it's not like they're going to trot a .210/.291/.271 hitter out to third base for over a hundred starts just because he's got a good glove...

 

oh, wait...

 

 

http://stmedia.stimg.co/900jimsjp0225.jpg?w=525

[LaBombo]

 

They've never said that he can't play 3B. I'm sure they believe he can. But we also know that he can't play it as well as Plouffe. It's really that simple.

 

Trevor Plouffe has made himself into a pretty nice ballplayer from the ashes of failed shortstop prospectdom, ranking roughly average offensively and defensively at third base, by both the numbers and the eye test.  And he's a new dad as well as reportedly a good teammate and a decent guy.  Good on him.

 

But what if I were Jim Pohlad and about to have Molitor and Ryan come into my office and talk to me about how they see Miguel Sano's future with the Twins unfolding?

 

As a contingency in the event of either Molly or TR saying anything even remotely resembling the above underlined Seth passage, I would hire Wallace Shawn to be ready to enter the room, decked out in full Princess Bride Vizzini regalia, to not say but rather yell, "Am I going MAD, or did the word 'PLOUFFE' escape your lips?!?!?".

 

If the Twins really believe that Sano's best destiny is right field because of who he is as a ballplayer, well, WTF happened to six years of scouting and managing him, but OK, live and learn.  And PS, good luck to Byron Buxton on balls in the center-right gap, going head to head with a right fielder the approximate size and mass of a Ford Flex stood on end.

 

But if the Twins considered for even a moment how best to use Sano in a way that also maximizes the contribution of an average ballplayer on a one year deal in his age 30 season, then they deserve whatever they get, with Sano as well as any other prospects expected to eventually form the basis of a winner.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Trevor Plouffe has made himself into a pretty nice ballplayer from the ashes of failed shortstop prospectdom, ranking roughly average offensively and defensively at third base, by both the numbers and the eye test.  And he's a new dad as well as reportedly a good teammate and a decent guy.  Good on him.

 

But what if I were Jim Pohlad and about to have Molitor and Ryan come into my office and talk to me about how they see Miguel Sano's future with the Twins unfolding?

 

As a contingency in the event of either Molly or TR saying anything even remotely resembling the above underlined Seth passage, I would hire Wallace Shawn to be ready to enter the room, decked out in full Princess Bride Vizzini regalia, to not say but rather yell, "Am I going MAD, or did the word 'PLOUFFE' escape your lips?!?!?".

 

If the Twins really believe that Sano's best destiny is right field because of who he is as a ballplayer, well, WTF happened to six years of scouting and managing him, but OK, live and learn.  And PS, good luck to Byron Buxton on balls in the center-right gap, going head to head with a right fielder the approximate size and mass of a Ford Flex stood on end.

 

But if the Twins considered for even a moment how best to use Sano in a way that also maximizes the contribution of an average ballplayer on a one year deal in his age 30 season, then they deserve whatever they get, with Sano as well as any other prospects expected to eventually form the basis of a winner.

Pohlad cares about the Twins? The contraction guy? 

 

In all seriousness, you are right.  The idea is to put each player in the best position to succeed, and to field the best possible line up. Not sure that's happening as it relates to Sano in RF, but we'll see.