The question that is stuck in my mind is this....

 

If we feel comfortable moving our 6'5" 260lb masher to OF, why the hell didn't we at least TRY Mauer out there 3 years ago?

 

Because he was still a catcher, and the org and he refused to move to OF or 1B and protect him and his body. 

 

Because he was still a catcher, and the org and he refused to move to OF or 1B and protect him and his body. 

Not to mention that Mauer already had one surgically repaired knee that wasn't exactly making him fleet of foot.

 

Right now, if the plan isn't Sano in RF, who IS in RF?

 

What? I'm feeling like this is a wind up, but I don't know.

 

Right now, if the plan isn't Sano in RF, who IS in RF?

Arcia or Rosario, or less likely (to start the year), Kepler.

This all hinges on if Park can hit MLB pitching, which is entirely unproven. I said it a month ago elsewhere, but I think best case scenario for the Twins is to put Park in AAA until he's "acclimated" to US life and pitching. It could be just April, it could be longer.

 

Don't assume he's a cleanup hitter when he's never faced an MLB pitcher and definitely don't build your lineup around him yet. If he is, then Sano or Plouffe become talking points. Until then it just means you have insurance.

 

Not to mention that Mauer already had one surgically repaired knee that wasn't exactly making him fleet of foot.

 

Mauer is actually quite fast. Seriously.

 

I posted an article a while back that showed top speeds to 2B on steal attempts. It was pretty interesting. It basically showed that Mauer could be a pretty darn good base stealer if he got leads off of 1B that were worth a damn.

 

 

 

Because he was still a catcher, and the org and he refused to move to OF or 1B and protect him and his body. 

 

OK... I meant when he moved from Catcher. However long ago that was. 2 years I guess?

I don't understand why this thread is on its fourth page.  The plan, right now, is Sano in the OF. That plan can change (and I think it will) if a decent offer for Plouffe comes through.  The reality is that if no decent offer comes through, Plouffe is a 3B on the Twins next season. 

 

It worked for the 2003 Marlins....

Pretty good for the 2001 Cardinals also.

Are we working on a contract extension for Plouffe? 'Cause if Sano is being moved off third, it might get pretty hard to move him back there eventually.

 

Sano couldn't be worse in the outfield than Willingham, Arcia, or Delmon Young... but even if he can do better than that sad defensive lot, he might still be awful.

This has been Ryan's style for years. Some players seem untouchable, some readily expendable. Often times talent is not the issue, personal relationships are.

Edited December 2, 201510 yr by Platoon

He might change his mind, but I believe this is his plan. And, I for one, have no issue with it.

I have several major issues with this. First, there seems a blind eye to the fact that Sano only played in 80 games. He is still, despite success in 80 games, a major work in progress as a hitter. Now they throw in a new position? Secondly, he weighed in at 260 lbs. last year and some reports it may have been more than that. Is this the weight for a right fielder? Can you say hamstring issues forever? Third, this must pre-suppose that Buxton will be in center to cover for him and I don't know anyone that thinks Buxton has demonstrated that he's ready yet.

 

If not Buxton are they assuming Keppler in center? I'm just not sure where this is all going?

On Nov. 10 Phil Miller quotes Terry Ryan as saying:

 

Pursuing Park wasn't done to subtract players, it was to add.

Plouffe will remain at 3rd, Mauer at 1st, and Sano will be in RF, because of his arm strength.

 

Ryan has said this consistently.  Time to embrace it.

So you culture a shortstop converted to a third baseman all these years in the minors.......... and you give up on it just as he hits the majors and ask him to play a new position, and never give him a shot at third? You never even give him the same amount of time that someone like Plouffe had? This is just asinine. No strikeout pitchers and playing young players out of position in the outfield behind them. Please explain to me how this has any support at all.

 

"For Ryan, the possibility of freeing some payroll and getting something back for Plouffe isn’t worth the trade-off. “We had trouble scoring runs last year,” he said. “We’re going to go with what we’ve got.”"

 

If he feels "we had trouble scoring runs last year" why would you "go with what we've got", when it had trouble scoring runs?

 

Park, at 29, does not make this team any younger, even it he can adapt, and not strikeout a record amount.

Edited December 3, 201510 yr by h2oface

This has been Ryan's style for years. Some players seem untouchable, some readily expendable. Often times talent is not the issue, personal relationships are.

Um yea like when he traded Morneau and choked up at the press conference?

 

So you culture a shortstop converted to a third baseman all these years in the minors.......... and you give up on it just as he hits the majors and ask him to play a new position, and never give him a shot at third? You never even give him the same amount of time that someone like Plouffe had? This is just asinine. No strikeout pitchers and playing young players out of position in the outfield behind them. Please explain to me how this has any support at all.

 

"For Ryan, the possibility of freeing some payroll and getting something back for Plouffe isn’t worth the trade-off. “We had trouble scoring runs last year,” he said. “We’re going to go with what we’ve got.”"

 

If he feels "we had trouble scoring runs last year" why would you "go with what we've got", when it had trouble scoring runs?

 

Park, at 29, does not make this team any younger, even it he can adapt, and not strikeout a record amount.

The age of the team doesn't matter right now.

 

The age of the team doesn't matter right now.

 In your opinon, perhaps. A rebuild is not accomplished by adding older players, unless they are aces or all-stars.

 

Oh that's right, excuse me. According to the front office, there never was a rebuild.

Edited December 3, 201510 yr by h2oface

 

 In your opinon, perhaps. A rebuild is not accomplished by adding older players, unless they are aces or all-stars.

Plouffe could be an all star, and by the way, 29 isn't old, plus the rebuild is supposed to be over.

 

 

Ryan has said this consistently.  Time to embrace it.

 

Many, including me, might say, that there is no time left to embrace Terry Ryan, and the ship for that sailed years ago. I too, am a Plouffe fan and don't want him traded, unless it is at the trade deadline and Sano has shown promise at third.

 

How is the pen looking these days?

Edited December 3, 201510 yr by h2oface

 

Some people are saying he is "lying to get leverage."  Other people with more nuanced, thoughtful views -- which I think is the majority on this site btw -- are saying that Ryan is emphasizing one absolutely true fact, that his current default plan is to start Plouffe at 3B and move Sano to RF, while not ruling out another mutually compatible fact, that if someone makes a good offer for Plouffe, he will pull the trigger and move Sano to 3B. That is not "lying for leverage" but it is emphasizing some facts and omitting or avoiding answering questions about others to (maybe) gain leverage. I'm an attorney (feel free to respond with lawyer jokes -- they don't bother me), so to me there is a huge difference there. The former is dishonest, the latter, in the context of a competitive environment (team v. team, or business v. business, not spouse v. spouse or friend v. friend) is not.

 

Same thing. Different words to self justify. Very pretty. The lie of omission and avoidance. This is the world we live in. It doesn't work in relationships very well, though, self admittedly, which is an indicator that one knows they are lying but telling themselves it is OK to cloak it when one feels they are dealing with a lower standard of relationship.

 

Edited December 3, 201510 yr by h2oface

 

Yeah, but if he traded Plouffe tomorrow because he got a good offer he would still not have lied, so that doesn't mean anything. He never said he would never trade Plouffe, just that his plan was to move Sano to the OF. That doesn't rule out a good offer changing his mind.

I agree- what Ryan said is true, until it isn't.  That doesn't have to mean he lied, or changed his mind.  Circumstances can change.

Stop it.  Just stop it.  The big guy is a 3B.  How the hell do you expect him to work hard enough to nail down that traditional power position with adequate MLB fielding acumen if you keep jerking him around? Let him concentrate on the one position he's been prepping for years, and stop messing around.  FFS.

 

Stop it.  Just stop it.  The big guy is a 3B.  How the hell do you expect him to work hard enough to nail down that traditional power position with adequate MLB fielding acumen if you keep jerking him around? Let him concentrate on the one position he's been prepping for years, and stop messing around.  FFS.

 

THAT'S THE SPIRIT!!!

So you culture a shortstop converted to a third baseman all these years in the minors.......... and you give up on it just as he hits the majors and ask him to play a new position, and never give him a shot at third? You never even give him the same amount of time that someone like Plouffe had? This is just asinine. No strikeout pitchers and playing young players out of position in the outfield behind them. Please explain to me how this has any support at all.

 

"For Ryan, the possibility of freeing some payroll and getting something back for Plouffe isn’t worth the trade-off. “We had trouble scoring runs last year,” he said. “We’re going to go with what we’ve got.”"

 

If he feels "we had trouble scoring runs last year" why would you "go with what we've got", when it had trouble scoring runs?

 

Park, at 29, does not make this team any younger, even it he can adapt, and not strikeout a record amount.

He obviously means "going with what we've got," and adding to it.

 

He thinks a lineup with Plouffe and Sano and Park will be better than Sano, Park, and someone else not named Plouffe.

 

Given the OF options, I'm inclined to agree.

 

On top of that, since I think corner OF defense is hugely overrated, and IF defense much harder and more important, I'm not at all sure Plouffe at third and Sano in RF isn't better defensively than Sano at third and one of the other options in RF.

 

And on top of THAT, it's December, and none of this is set in stone yet, nor is it guaranteed to last the season if they do break camp with that plan.

 

Many, including me, might say, that there is no time left to embrace Terry Ryan, and the ship for that sailed years ago. I too, am a Plouffe fan and don't want him traded, unless it is at the trade deadline and Sano has shown promise at third.

 

How is the pen looking these days?

Pen would look better with a Poof trade.

 

Pen would look better with a Poof trade.

 

Yes, and even if a Plouffe trade didn't include a reliever

 

Plouffe should not block a stud like Sano. Question should be, what part of the bench does he occupy if we can't trade him. He is decent but not Sano blocking quality. Plouffe should be a utility guy if not traded. He is better than Nunez in that role. Net gain for the team.

Edited December 3, 201510 yr by Spikecurveball

Raise your hand if you've ever seen Sano track down an outfield fly ball?  Perhaps we should all wait and see how Sano does before judging whether he can or can't cut it in the OF.  Players a lot less naturally talented than Sano have successfully transitioned.  Why jump to such foregone conclusions and trade away one of our better players on a hunch?  It's not like Plouffe couldn't be traded before the deadline next year.  If it worked out, a line up with Sano and Plouffe in the middle would be formidable.  Sano to right is a low risk, high reward move.  Trading Plouffe is a high risk, unknown reward move.  I don't think Sano to right has the highest chance of success in the world, but I can certainly see the appeal of taking that chance.  And I guess I wouldn't bet Plouffe on it not working.

Harmon Killebrew was able to play 3B and outfield.  Sano seems at least as athletic as Harmon.

 

 

 

He obviously means "going with what we've got," and adding to it.

He thinks a lineup with Plouffe and Sano and Park will be better than Sano, Park, and someone else not named Plouffe.

 

 

I always have to go by what someone who knows how to express themselves says. Assumptions I have made in my life were too often, just that, and not what someone else meant, even though I extrapolated and assumed they did. It taught me not to speak for others. I can't be a third party that speaks for someone who I don't represent. If he meant "and adding to it", perhaps that is something he could have added to what he said. Perhaps he does. Perhaps he will say it himself.

 

It seems like Plouffe is quite athletic, too, no? How about Plouffe taking some time in spring training in the outfield? Is it his arm? If he was to be traded at a trade deadline, wouldn't it make Plouffe more valuable in a trade to be proven versatile? Wouldn't it be more valuable to the Twins to be able to utilize his bat at times and know he could be adequate for some innings in the outfield? To not give Sano some time to develop at third seems irresponsible to me. I wonder how many other managements would keep him out of the position he was cultured to be, especially as he transitions into the show?

Edited December 3, 201510 yr by h2oface