Yes, but some of us stay here for non-Twins stuff and head into that forum for Twins-related materials. If I'm talking about the Twins, I head to that forum, otherwise, I stick here.

Ben, I'm not suggesting you post elsewhere, I'm just saying that some discussion is happening elsewhere, too, and there might be other talking points others are interested in even if you are not.

It just gets frustrating when things get so muddied between the two and a Mike Pelfrey thread on this board turns into a 4-page Twins bickering thread, yet a legit baseball discussion thread gets linked out of this board to another post.

 

It just gets frustrating when things get so muddied between the two and a Mike Pelfrey thread on this board turns into a 4-page Twins bickering thread, yet a legit baseball discussion thread gets linked out of this board to another post.

 

 

Ben ... this thread is already muddied with many discussions and talking points. And this IS a Twins website. While we try to keep things 'organized' there is no way to make it 'pure' as you'd like, with no Twins talk whatsoever in this forum. I'm not closing this thread down, nor am I trying to move or alter discussion. But the fact is there are Winter Meetings threads in the Twins Talk forum that is about Twins rumors and signings as well as all other rumors and signings, for each day of the meetings, and I'm just tying to supply a cross reference.

One mega off season thread gets rather unwieldy, too.

In two days, the two threads on the Twins boards nearly have more posts than this one in a month of being up, so how this one would become "unwieldy" is yet to be seen...

The Zobrist deal doesn't really make sense for a team with so many extra 2B/SS.  Pretty useful player to have though. 

 

He would have been an interesting choice instead of Park for twice the money.  The Twins could certainly trade Plouffe and have a good backup.  He could have started in the OF where the Twins have talent but questionable certainty for the year.

Big Shelby Miller deal to Arizona.

 

Big Shelby Miller deal to Arizona.

 

No kidding. Incredible. The #1 pick last season, a major-league ready starter, and a MLB CFer for Miller. That's a huge haul. Impressive to say the least. Per the MLB.com list, it'd give the Braves 8 top 100 players, which would be unprecedented in the time they've had lists. Hard not to like the deal as a Braves fan.

I really like Dave Stewart. The Braves have traded Shelby Miller, Phil Gosselin, and Gabe Speier to the Diamondbacks and received back Ender Inciarte, Touki Toussaint, Aaron Blair, and Dansby Swanson.

 

I really like Dave Stewart. The Braves have traded Shelby Miller, Phil Gosselin, and Gabe Speier to the Diamondbacks and received back Ender Inciarte, Touki Toussaint, Aaron Blair, and Dansby Swanson.

It sure must be nice to be able to speed up a rebuild by acquiring a seconds team's farm system to augment your own. 

Holy bleep.......AZ is insane. Unbelievably bad trade from their side.

AZ is pushing all of their chips in this year for some reason, and Atlanta is reaping the benefits. Atlanta essentially has acquired the Diamondback's top picks in the last 3 drafts over the course of a year.

 

Holy bleep.......AZ is insane. Unbelievably bad trade from their side.

That is arguably a starting offer for Jose Fernandez and Miller is not Jose Fernandez.

In fairness.....I may have reacted in a similar way when KC made their trade, but I don't think so. I think I sort of liked that trade......

 

In fairness.....I may have reacted in a similar way when KC made their trade, but I don't think so. I think I sort of liked that trade......

Yeah, AZ paid a stiff price, but the over the top reaction across the interwebs is vaguely similar to the reaction to the Myers-Shields trade.

 

Swanson is a nice prospect, but he's got 1/2 a season of pro ball under his belt.  In two years he may be a great prospect.  Then again, in 5 years he might be out of pro ball, never having made the majors.

 

Yeah, AZ paid a stiff price, but the over the top reaction across the interwebs is vaguely similar to the reaction to the Myers-Shields trade.

 

Swanson is a nice prospect, but he's got 1/2 a season of pro ball under his belt.  In two years he may be a great prospect.  Then again, in 5 years he might be out of pro ball, never having made the majors.

 

My recollection is that I liked the trade for KC, but I hate this trade for AZ. Context is important. 

I actually don't hate this trade for AZ although it seems like they could've gotten a bit more.  I wasn't a big fan of Swanson's in the draft and Blair is a #3 pitcher.  I think Incairte is a sell-high guy.  The Dbacks still have a pretty good OF on paper with Peralta, Pollock and Cuban Tomas.  They have Goldy at first and some young guys around the IF.  And a rotation of Grienke, Corbin and Miller is probably enough to win the NL west.

I didn't hate the Myers/Shields trade as much as many on here (and across the country).  I had followed Myers throughout the minors (fanboy-ish) but I wasn't really enamored with him as a top 5 prospect.

 

A more similar trade to this is the Samardzija for Russell trade.  Swanson is kind of like Russell although he hasn't played as much.  The key for this trade is that Miller needs to continue to beat SABR stats.  Some pitchers can but it could reverse since he is going to a much better hitting park compared to ATL and STL.

 

 

I don't mind AZ's intention, but I agree with kab above that this seems move like a Jose Fernandez trade than Shelby Miller.

 

That is arguably a starting offer for Jose Fernandez and Miller is not Jose Fernandez.

 

In all seriousness, the report was that a quartet of Swanson, Bradley, Blair, and Brandon Drury was the STARTING point for Fernandez from Florida along with an unconfirmed major league outfielder (assumed to be Inciarte).

 

I actually don't hate this trade for AZ although it seems like they could've gotten a bit more.  I wasn't a big fan of Swanson's in the draft and Blair is a #3 pitcher.  I think Incairte is a sell-high guy.  The Dbacks still have a pretty good OF on paper with Peralta, Pollock and Cuban Tomas.  They have Goldy at first and some young guys around the IF.  And a rotation of Grienke, Corbin and Miller is probably enough to win the NL west.

 

Add Mike Leake as well to that rotation.

 

It sure must be nice to be able to speed up a rebuild by acquiring a seconds team's farm system to augment your own. 

 

Technically two teams'. San Diego last offseason and Arizona since the beginning of the 2015 season.

AZ is pushing all of their chips in this year for some reason

The reason is Greinke. They now have a self-defined window (probably fewer than the 6 years of that contract).

 

He decides to sign with someone else, AZ doesn't make this trade.

 

No kidding. Incredible. The #1 pick last season, a major-league ready starter, and a MLB CFer for Miller. That's a huge haul. Impressive to say the least. Per the MLB.com list, it'd give the Braves 8 top 100 players, which would be unprecedented in the time they've had lists. Hard not to like the deal as a Braves fan.

I know the Diamondbacks have a big tv deal, but this is crazy. I had Miller on my fantasy baseball team so I followed him pretty closely. He's not worth anywhere near that. There's not many players that are. Fans probably don't like it, but the Braves are making good moves. When the Cubs and Mets best players are hitting free agency the Braves players will be in their prime.

 

I know the Diamondbacks have a big tv deal, but this is crazy. I had Miller on my fantasy baseball team so I followed him pretty closely. He's not worth anywhere near that. There's not many players that are. Fans probably don't like it, but the Braves are making good moves. When the Cubs and Mets best players are hitting free agency the Braves players will be in their prime.

 

And one thing brought up the other day - the year Bryce Harper hits free agency is the last year of the current terrible Atlanta television deal. Getting out from under that and getting something new in place could drastically change the direction of the franchise. New stadium in 2017 and new TV deal for the 2019 season, at which time the huge influx of talent from their lower minors should start to hit the bigs. It's likely going to be a rough few years in Atlanta, but they're setting things up that could be very solid.

I appreciate seeing a team like the Diamondbacks "going" for it.

 

They have the best 1-2 combo in baseball now at the top of the rotation and have some really awesome young bats to match: Pollock and Goldschmidt.

The time is now. If they win a title in the next 4-5 years, this trade is more than worth it for them.

did you just say they have a better 1-2 combo than the Mets? no.

I don't think AZ will hugely regret anyone they traded but I don't see how Miller is that good.

Cards get Jon Broxton for two years at 7.5$M.

 

I would have topped that. He was really good after going to St. Louis and I think his value was bogged down by a crazy undeserved ERA in Milwaukee. I think he's back and going to be a steal.

One of the under-the-radar moves in the reliever market was Boston trading Wade Miley and Jonathan Aro for Carson Smith and Roenis Elias. The Red Sox now have Kimbrel, Uehara, Tazara, and Smith at the back of their bullpen.