In the offseason, Seth rated Oliveros #2 overall for minor league relievers in 2014. Oliveros has followed through again this year and done well. Also he's made multiple starts now, so he's versatile.

Edited June 7, 201511 yr by Hosken Bombo Disco

I'd see if the Brewers could be interested in a deal for Lucroy based on Arcia, S Turner, & Meyer.

 

Replace Duensing, Stauffer, Herman, & Santana with Tonkin, Jones, Lucroy, & Vargas

 

 

Lineup: 1B Mauer, 2B Dozier, RF Hunter, 3B Plouffe, C Lucroy, DH Vargas, LF Rosario, CF Hicks, SS Escobar

Bench: C Suzuki, IF Nunez, OF Robinson

SP: Hughes, Santana, May, Gibson, Pelfrey

Bullpen: Graham, Tonkin, Pressley, Thompson, Fien, Boyer, Perkins

 

Then in 2016

Lineup: CF Buxton, 1B Mauer, 2B Dozier, 3B Plouffe, C Lucroy, DH Vargas, RF Sano, LF Hicks, SS Polanco

Bench: C Suzuki, IF Escobar, OF Rosario, 1B/C Pinto

SP: Hughes, Santana, May, Gibson, Berrios

Bullpen: Oliveros, Tonkin, Pressley, Thompson, N Burdi, Z Jones, Perkins

 

 

 

 

 

Yesterday's lineup included Robinson, Santana, Herrmann, and Rosario. The lineup has needed help for a while now. They should try and do something about it, not throw up their hands and just say "it's a flawed lineup, nothing we can do," while Writing Robinson's name in the 2 hole.

 

Find it interesting that you put Rosario and his 2-4 day and .289 avg. In that group but left out Hicks, who went 0-3 and popped up yesterday with the bases loaded with nobody out and is now hitting .244 with only 2 RBIs, both came on his 1 HR

 

Yesterday's lineup included Robinson, Santana, Herrmann, and Rosario. The lineup has needed help for a while now. They should try and do something about it, not throw up their hands and just say "it's a flawed lineup, nothing we can do," while Writing Robinson's name in the 2 hole.

Find it interesting that you put Rosario and his 2-4 day and .289 avg. In that group but left out Hicks, who went 0-3 and popped up yesterday with the bases loaded with nobody out and is now hitting .244 with only 2 RBIs, both came on his 1 HR

You're right, I forgot Hicks, add him into the group that should be hitting ninth, if in the lineup.  Not sure how that invalidates the point the lineup is weak.

 

Rosario is a 700 OPS hitter at this point despite the 2-4 yesterday.  If it's OK with you, I'll still leave him in the group that is responsible for a weak lineup.  If he was the nine hitter, I could live with it.  He's not.

 

Yesterday's lineup included Robinson, Santana, Herrmann, and Rosario. The lineup has needed help for a while now. They should try and do something about it, not throw up their hands and just say "it's a flawed lineup, nothing we can do," while Writing Robinson's name in the 2 hole.

Find it interesting that you put Rosario and his 2-4 day and .289 avg. In that group but left out Hicks, who went 0-3 and popped up yesterday with the bases loaded with nobody out and is now hitting .244 with only 2 RBIs, both came on his 1 HR

Concur.

Drive the ball Danny!

You're right, I forgot Hicks, add him into the group that should be hitting ninth, if in the lineup.  Not sure how that invalidates the point the lineup is weak.

 

Rosario is a 700 OPS hitter at this point despite the 2-4 yesterday.  If it's OK with you, I'll still leave him in the group that is responsible for a weak lineup.  If he was the nine hitter, I could live with it.  He's not.

At 700 OPS Rosario is 5th highest among regulars, behind only Dozier, Hunter, Plouffe and Maurer (706) and ahead of the .657 of Vargas, who most everyone wants to bring back up and put in the 5 hole

 

At 700 OPS Rosario is 5th highest among regulars, behind only Dozier, Hunter, Plouffe and Maurer (706) and ahead of the .657 of Vargas, who most everyone wants to bring back up and put in the 5 hole

So what you're saying is, the Twins lineup is weak.

 

I agree.

The last 5 hitters today: Rosario, Escobar, Nunez, Hicks then Santana are really sad. All 5 maybe have, what,15 total walks this year? 

 

The last 5 hitters today: Rosario, Escobar, Nunez, Hicks then Santana are really sad. All 5 maybe have, what,15 total walks this year? 

 

14.

 

But whose counting?

Hard to believe this team isn't 0-55 since everybody is so bad. Maybe the 27 Yankees are available in trade.

 

Why do you want Oliveros over Meyer or Tonkin?

Meyer just became a bullpen pitcher. It'd be foolish to call him up so soon. Plus they do want to transition him back to a starter eventually (according to TR).

 

Also, Tonkin did struggle, and even though he deserves more chances, I think we should see if Oliveros can pitch in the majors. He's destroying AAA for the 2nd year in a row. (and also, as I said earlier, Achter should get a shot too.)

I'd agree that Oliveros is going to have a learning curve and won't likely be better than Stuaffer or Duensing, but he does have some upside, more so than them right now.  I'd rather see him and Tonkin fill those roles with some hope of promise.

 

I have a real tough time believing that Vargas won't be an upgrade at the DH role.  The lineup is pretty anemic right now, and when Plouffe, Hunter, and Dozier cannot get it done, they suffer.  It would be nice to have a potential potent bat at DH, Escobar's glove at SS (even if his bat never comes around), Santana in AAA.  I think it would go a long ways towards staying in 1st place.

Apparently Ryan disagrees with all the "keep Vargas down" folks. 

Apparently Ryan disagrees with all the "keep Vargas down" folks.

 

This time.

 

I'd agree that Oliveros is going to have a learning curve and won't likely be better than Stuaffer or Duensing, but he does have some upside, more so than them right now.  I'd rather see him and Tonkin fill those roles with some hope of promise.

 

I have a real tough time believing that Vargas won't be an upgrade at the DH role.  The lineup is pretty anemic right now, and when Plouffe, Hunter, and Dozier cannot get it done, they suffer.  It would be nice to have a potential potent bat at DH, Escobar's glove at SS (even if his bat never comes around), Santana in AAA.  I think it would go a long ways towards staying in 1st place.

 

I think Oliveros would be better than Stauffer and Duensing. But I also think Meyer, Tonkin and Thielbar would all be better than Oliveros.

 

Apparently Ryan disagrees with all the "keep Vargas down" folks. 

 

I think Ryan ran out of options. Hope Vargas lights it up. I still think he needs more time.

 

Honestly, what does that matter?  Must everyone out-produce Hicks to get a call-up?

 

jim, I feel like you're just grasping for reasons on this.  If the long game was what was important for Vargas he should've been sent down in the middle of his awful struggles in April.  Or should be done with Santana right now.

 

The team's logic on some of these things is really hard to comprehend.

 

Not so much grasping as not especially convinced by all the arguments being used. It's OK that we disagree. I find the logic of the front office perfectly comprehendible. Not that hard.

 

The Hicks OPS reference was just to make the point that citing Vargas OPS in AAA didn't mean much

Edited June 7, 201511 yr by drjim

I think Oliveros would be better than Stauffer and Duensing. But I also think Meyer, Tonkin and Thielbar would all be better than Oliveros.

I'd be fine with a Meyer for Stauffer swap. Give Meyer some lw leverage relief innings to get his feet wet and hope by July you've got a late inning option.

 

I'd be fine with a Meyer for Stauffer swap. Give Meyer some lw leverage relief innings to get his feet wet and hope by July you've got a late inning option.

 

I'm the notorious optimist but I don't think it would even take that long. And I agree with your general sentiment (in other posts) that the bullpen is something of a ticking time bomb, based on usage and talent.

 

That's why I don't get the strong calls for Oliveros. He's fine as far as guys that shuttle between AAA and MLB are concerned, but the Twins already have 4-5 of those guys in the mlb bullpen and 1-2 in AAA other than Oliveros, and those guys don't need to be replaced. If you are going to make a change, roll with the talent and the guy that can actually be a difference maker over the rest of the season.

 

I'm the notorious optimist but I don't think it would even take that long. And I agree with your general sentiment (in other posts) that the bullpen is something of a ticking time bomb, based on usage and talent.

 

That's why I don't get the strong calls for Oliveros. He's fine as far as guys that shuttle between AAA and MLB are concerned, but the Twins already have 4-5 of those guys in the mlb bullpen and 1-2 in AAA other than Oliveros, and those guys don't need to be replaced. If you are going to make a change, roll with the talent and the guy that can actually be a difference maker over the rest of the season.

 

There is a decent chance that by July we'll have need for Thielbar, Meyer, Tonkin, and Oliveros.  You want their first innings to be in the middle of a hopeful pennant race?

 

And what sort of message does it continue to send to the minor leagues that you can just flat out dominate and keep getting ignored?  

I'd be fine with a Meyer for Stauffer swap.

Me too, but I doubt Ottawa (Can-Am Assn) would take on Stauffer's salary.

 

There is a decent chance that by July we'll have need for Thielbar, Meyer, Tonkin, and Oliveros.  You want their first innings to be in the middle of a hopeful pennant race?

 

And what sort of message does it continue to send to the minor leagues that you can just flat out dominate and keep getting ignored?  

 

In this catastrophe of a scenario, I would take some solace in Thielbar having 55 games and 50 innings and Tonkin having 46 games and 38 innings of experience. And that is why I would call up Meyer basically right now. If a 4th guy is also needed, I'm sure Oliveros can break in with some low leverage innings at that point. 

 

I'm not especially concerned about 27 year old career minor leaguers to be completely honest. I have nothing against him getting a shot, but there are others ahead of him.

I don't think it will take a catastrophe for us to need 4 guys who aren't in the pen right now.  Especially since we need at least two of them right now.

Me too, but I doubt Ottawa (Can-Am Assn) would take on Stauffer's salary.

I'll spearhead the money raising campaign...I bet we can pay off the contract in one TD game thread.

 

We'll need to wait for the perfect moment...his next appearance should do.

 

......And, at some point, decide on SS.  With Santana, Escobar, Polanco and Gordon, there is depth and quality that can serve the future.  But, we don't need them all.

Tulo is hitting his usual groove and now over .300 with 6 homers at short. The Twins have depth and quality that can serve Colorado's future..... and we don't need them all.

Edited June 8, 201511 yr by h2oface

 

The Hicks OPS reference was just to make the point that citing Vargas OPS in AAA didn't mean much

I think it means neither one of them need to be in AAA, but need to learn how to succeed in the show, and the show is where they should be now. The time is now.

 

I think Hicks is probably one of the top 3 outfielders in the organization at this point in time. He's an average offensive player, maybe a little less, but his defense has been top notch. Next year I expect our four outfielders to be Arcia, Buxton, Hicks and Rosario. Buxton will play center. Hicks will play right or, when Buxton has a day off, center. Arcia will play left or, when Vargas has a day off, DH. Rosario will play left or right when Hicks or Arcia has a day off. I'd anticipate that Hicks, Arcia and Rosario will get approximately equal playing time.

I hope Arcia gets a lot of days off...... unless he can ever figure out how to play outfield. Unless he hits .333 and belts 35 homers, I think, overall, he will be a liability.

 

I hope Arcia gets a lot of days off...... unless he can ever figure out how to play outfield. Unless he hits .333 and belts 35 homers, I think, overall, he will be a liability.

 

And  there is the Torii Hunter factor to consider:

 

 

There has been “no movement” between Torii Hunter and the Twins on a contract extension, though Wolfson guesses a deal will come at some point during the season.  Hunter signed a one-year, $10.5MM deal with Minnesota last winter and has openly discussed both how he wants to eventually work in the Twins’ front office and how he’s undecided about playing in 2016.  If performance is a factor, Hunter has been playing well, hitting .280/.332/.458 through his first 184 plate appearances...    Wolfson notes, it’s “not like he’s going anywhere (but Minnesota)."

 

 

So you seem to agree the Twins should make some moves but yet the topic is ridiculous........got it.

I just don't want to see them trade away anything valuable because of the fluky success they're having.  We can agree on that much, can't we?