Negativity

[jay]

This has been a recurring issue at various times. For whatever reason, the end of spring training has created a firestorm of negativity. Practically every thread is devolving into how the front office is full of idiots and everything is horrible. The same thing... over. and. over.

 

The mods have done a great job trying to keep threads on topic, but it's out of control right now. It's far less enjoyable to visit the site.

 

I'm not sure if my occasional contributions are valuable here or not, but I wanted to make it clear that I'm taking a hiatus from visiting the site for this exact reason.

[DuluthFan]

I agree with the point of there being too much negativity.

 

I see too much focus on the minor league prospects and not enough coverage of the major league team. Let's look at the strengths of the major league roster once in a while. There are reasons these players made the team and not the unproven, raw minor leaguers.

 

I would suggest perhaps an embargo on mentioning any player not on the 25 man roster for the first month of the season. Lets talk about the major league team, not the AAA or AA players.

[curt1965]

Sorry- I have to respectfully disagree. One thing that I have always respected is that TD readers and contributors are so passionate in their opinions. We all think we are experts, and if they would just trust us to make all of the roster decisions, the Twins would never lose again! All of the old vets have warts, and the youngsters are all potential superstars.

Before I became a TD reader, I knew very little, if anything, about the players in the minors. Now I look forward to the articles on the minor league players, and now know who these guys are before they hit the big time. I really feel that I have become a more educated fan, and following the Twins is actually more fun now.

[Seth Stohs]

Jay, I 100% understand where you're coming from... There really are two pretty equal sides to it. #1, and it's probably at the crux of the issue, there has been a lot of losing the last four years so it doesn't matter what the team does, there are a lot of people who will complain. It's frustrating for some of us that just enjoy the game and the team and like to have hope. It's definitely a dueling situation.

 

At Twins Daily, we (and the moderators specifically) are fine with negativity if it is reasoned and well thought out. Negativity for the sake of negativity is where things get frustrating.

 

Sometimes we do have to take a step back. For me, Opening Day and Spring Training are a time for hope and optimism. I have hope and optimism that this team will continue to improve and be more competitive throughout the season. I have hope that the roster will be in a state of change throughout the year and that the prospects we want to see, we will see later in the year when they are ready. My hope is for 2016 in terms of actually competing, and I think that would be a good, optimistic view... I can hope and dream for something more in 2015, but I won't be disappointed if they don't. I just want to see improvement.

 

There are some people, in life, in baseball and in the real world, who choose to look at a person or a team and find the things that they don't do well. The Twins have had many of these in recent years.

 

There are other people who choose to find the positives amongst all the negatives. What can Player A do well, and What could he possibly become.

 

Those two people and those two viewpoints may can co-exist, and those two people can predict or project the same things for that same player, but may come across in a different way. I guess each individual or fan needs to decide what kind of fan they are for themselves. 

[Kwak]

It is to be expected that there will be considerable discussion about minor league players--it's Spring Training and there are many of them in camp. There are frequently about 60 people at camp since only 25 make the Active Roster much discussion will concern them.

 

I'm unsure of your definition of negativity but if it includes disagreement of management decisions--Sports should be avoided since disagreement is the norm not the exception.

[formerly33]

I guess we've all gone without REAL baseball for too long. While I don't think I've gotten negative (lately ), I know the feeling. We all need baseball to sweeten us up a bit, and for some reason Spring Training doesn't help. So maybe we should all visit TD each morning and look at the countdown until regular season starts, but not log in until that comes.

 

Just kidding But we're ready for some REAL baseball. That's all.

[Dantes929]

I used to read only the strib pages and the negativity was just depressing.   I found myself defending positions and players and coaches not because I thought they were good or great but because the criticism was so over the top.   Besides which the bandwagon and hindsight was just sickening.    If you look in the archives you would have found 99% of their readers demanding Mauer's contract be extended and later that Hicks be given the job in center after a good spring training.    Two years later 99% of the posters were calling the Twins morons for extending Mauer's contract and for promoting Hicks too soon..    I came to TD because I wanted a different mood and have been happy to have found it.     There is much more debate and consideration on these pages.    it did get negative with the recent cuts  and did see some of the Trib type comments but I get it    By and large  there was legitimate reasons for it even if I didn't agree with all of it.     I get jay's comments because I have seen mob mentality with negativity where it starts getting contagious.   I have had teammates that were just fine that became very negative and critical when that type of person joined the team and it was just depressing how it snowballed.     Likewise with forums such as these. 

[Shane Wahl]

I just wrote a blog about this.

[old nurse]

There is constructive criticism and then there is negativity. When the threads come across as just more negativity to the reader it is a turn off. One thread and done. There are other places to go.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

TD is too negative! Terry Ryan needs to do something about it! How can he go into the season.... Hahaha

 

Seriously, I like the differences of opinion and the mostly civil discourse that ensues. It's why I come back

[Platoon]

I have found most of the discourse on TD civil as a rule. To see negative and disrespect, Dante is right, you have to visit the comments section of the Trib. As for the somewhat repetitive bashing of the FO, I think most of that comes from a combination of frustration with the 4 previous years, and the apparent bright future just over the horizon. Baseball is no different than any other topic that is openly discussed in the 24 hr media. It's just so much easier to say, "I would not have done that" than it is to present a cohesive idea that takes into account all the little irritating and mitigating factors that are so easy to ignore. Add hindsight to that, and what do you get? The perfect FO!

[Craig Arko]

You can't really understand another person until you've slid head-first into First Base in their shoes.

 

Give them the benefit of the doubt. They suffer much more than the rest of us, like Van Gogh.

 

The ignore button works, too.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Jay, this will blow over once real baseball gets underway.

 

This happens every year. The last half of March is a ****storm on the forums.

[teekz]

Jay-

I find the best place to have conversations is in the game threads. You get to converse with people actually watching the games and are more likely to follow the team on a day to day basis.

[Blackjack]

Jay, I agree 100%!!!! I was reading down thru the comments on one of the TD articles yesterday and I thought to myself  'I have to get out of here, get away from all these negative Nellies, time to go find something else to read'. Its springtime, I can go read about crappie fishing, turkey hunting, gardening, etc. and not get the bad vibes. On TD I'm just going to restrict myself to the GREAT informative articles by Seth, Parker, etc.

 

Go Twins!!

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'll echo what Brock and Seth said here in that it's always a fine line and a bit of a gray area to police as a moderator. On one hand, we want dissonant voices, but on another, we don't want to see every thread hijacked with an indictment on the front office either. It's not always easy to police, though I think we are in agreement that it's reaching its limit. I do think that once the games get started, we will see things return to normal a bit, but if things continue to get out of hand, you'll likely start seeing action on it. In the mean time, definitely hang out in the game threads if nothing else. Lots of fun banter goes on there.

[PseudoSABR]

It's fine to be negative or skeptical, but it's annoying to relate every issue and thread back to how horrible the front office has been for so long, and how the poster has been right this whole time.  Especially when the poster doesn't try to put a lot of thought or effort into an obviously inflammatory post.  I certainly hope the tone will change when we have actual baseball to talk about, but I imagine the same culprits will still spin their negative ideological takes.  

I just don't see anything productive by allowing such latitude for the same posters to post mirror negative assertions in each and every thread.  If a poster has communicated the same idea in a different thread, I think that's grounds in and of itself for moderation, in spite of the negativity. 

 

Whatever happened to optimism Springs eternal?  The fact is that there is not the corollary amount of optimism here. Not that there should be, but without that balance, the place seems awfully gloomy for the beginning of a season.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

Jay,

 

I read the comments section to this post, and I see some of my favorite Twins Daily posters, and those who are handing out the "likes" are some of the more astute posters and readers on the site. You have a lot of good baseball minds reflecting on this blog.

 

With that said, I think Pat Reusse said it well in comparing the announcement of Ervin Santana's suspension on April 3rd of 2015 with the onset of glaucoma in Kirby Puckett's eye on March 28th of 1996. Both stories broke as the Twins were prepared to break camp and turn around multiple losing seasons. http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/298648181.html

 

I have a hard time not being negative right now. The signing of Ervin Santana marked the Twins' commitment to winning now. Santana also absorbed the lion's share of Minnesota's available free agent budget. The timing of Santana's suspension, and the dead weight of his contract is as debilitating to the Twins as A-Fraud was--and is--to the Yankees.

 

So, where do you go to find a positive vibe? I'm just sayin' that the negative vibe is appropriate, given the times we are facing. Bottom line--if you are selling hope, I'm not buying.

 

The Twins organization just hit a low that it hasn't seen in almost twenty years. If there's a time to be negative, it's right about now.

[drock2190]

Four 90+ loss seasons tend to do that to a fanbase. Especially since they look prime for another and the top prospects are once again not close to contributing.

[Rosterman]

It's been a tough off-season. The negativity comes from four losing seasons. Yet the Twins DID go out and spend money, did keep Arbitration eligible players, did change on-field management. All in the hopes of exciting the fan base AND getting the club at least competitive in a division that just may pretty balanced overall.

 

And the blogsphere fanbase is really excited about the prospects to come.

 

But we can't have both and stay positive about both, or can we? Give kudos to a team trying for the goals in 2015 of putting a winning team on the field, spending money to do it, and now having to deal with a setback.

 

How negative would it be to the popular fan base if the team had announced that we are going to go into a strict 2-3 year rebuilding mode, hoping our strong minor league system will come thru and dazzle you and keep you interested in baseball.

 

It is a gamble. The Twins did put some money out there. We may disagree on where it was spent and on whom. We also may disagree on some ench and in-training player choices, but now that the season has begin, we go forth and hope that seats aren't cheap on StubHub.

[Kwak]

Whoa! I see some real benefit to low prices on tickets to baseball games.  Just trying to spin a negative into a positive.

[nicksaviking]

I just don't see anything productive by allowing such latitude for the same posters to post mirror negative assertions in each and every thread.  If a poster has communicated the same idea in a different thread, I think that's grounds in and of itself for moderation, in spite of the negativity. 

 

Whatever happened to optimism Springs eternal?  The fact is that there is not the corollary amount of optimism here. Not that there should be, but without that balance, the place seems awfully gloomy for the beginning of a season.

So positive posters can post the same rainbows and sunshine in every thread but the skrptics can't do the same?

 

Vegas has the Twins winning 68.5 games, that's 42%. Why should there be a 50/50 split on optimism vs odds makers supported realism? There are so many reasons to be down about the season. I want to be excited, most of us do, but here we are with a suspended free agent half of us didn't want killing payroll and the rotation, and a roster full of retreads instead of young kids who we could at least dream of projecting a bright future upon. The front office isn't giving us what we want, if they continue to fail to payoff, why can't they be held accountable?

[big dog]

 

So positive posters can post the same rainbows and sunshine in every thread but the skrptics can't do the same?

Vegas has the Twins winning 68.5 games, that's 42%. Why should there be a 50/50 split on optimism vs odds makers supported realism? There are so many reasons to be down about the season. I want to be excited, most of us do, but here we are with a suspended free agent half of us didn't want killing payroll and the rotation, and a roster full of retreads instead of young kids who we could at least dream of projecting a bright future upon. The front office isn't giving us what we want, if they continue to fail to payoff, why can't they be held accountable?

Wait-- there's a roster full of retreads??? Why didn't anyone tell me about this before???  

[Craig Arko]

So positive posters can post the same rainbows and sunshine in every thread but the skrptics can't do the same?

Vegas has the Twins winning 68.5 games, that's 42%. Why should there be a 50/50 split on optimism vs odds makers supported realism? There are so many reasons to be down about the season. I want to be excited, most of us do, but here we are with a suspended free agent half of us didn't want killing payroll and the rotation, and a roster full of retreads instead of young kids who we could at least dream of projecting a bright future upon. The front office isn't giving us what we want, if they continue to fail to payoff, why can't they be held accountable?

We aren't the front office. Don't take it out on the other fans. Please.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

So positive posters can post the same rainbows and sunshine in every thread but the skrptics can't do the same?

Vegas has the Twins winning 68.5 games, that's 42%. Why should there be a 50/50 split on optimism vs odds makers supported realism? There are so many reasons to be down about the season. I want to be excited, most of us do, but here we are with a suspended free agent half of us didn't want killing payroll and the rotation, and a roster full of retreads instead of young kids who we could at least dream of projecting a bright future upon. The front office isn't giving us what we want, if they continue to fail to payoff, why can't they be held accountable?

If you can't see a grating different between endless optimism versus endless pessimism, I don't know what to tell you. Once is like being hit with a foam mallet. The other is like getting hit with a real mallet. Both are irritating but only one of them makes you want to turn around and punch the mallet bearer straight in the face.

 

Whether the negative nellies like it or not, negativity will attract more attention because it's negative and to some extent, negativity is expressed to stir controversy. Everyone, at one point or another, gets tired of reading never-ending pages of negativity and pessimism, not to mention that negativity is more likely to draw moderator ire after a prolonged stretch of time. It's human nature to notice dissent over agreement.

[Han Joelo]

My marriage has somewhat mirrored the Twins for the last decade, from the heady days in the early oughts, to the 'rebuilding years' of the teens, as we struggled through raising babies.  We've made some choices, like signing our awesome house to a 'contract extension' in '09, only to endure concussion related plumbing problems and bi-lateral peeling paint.  We wonder if we shouldn't have just gone 'year to year' with a rental unit just entering it's prime years.  We could have let the landlord, Mr. Amaro, deal with with the decline phase of the washer and dryer.

 

Recently, my wife invested heavily in an expensive 'free agent' automatic cat litter box.  We knew it wouldn't get us back into playoff contention, but we thought it might make us more competitive.  It was an abject failure, and was soon on the garage shelf, substituted by a replacement level plastic tray, earning the league minimum.

 

If you think it was constructive for me to blame my wife for torpedoing our budget because of her rainbow and unicorn vision of cat poo free bliss, you'd be wrong.  Nor was it a good idea to point out we could have just gone with the retread cat box in the first place.  Instead, we reevaluated our priorities, and agreed to take turns cleaning the poop up every day.  

 

I love the give and take on TD, and I generally blow off the negativity--it seems to me there are about a dozen frequent posters that are responsible for a majority of it.  The problem is they have 'numbers' and 'facts' on their side, so moderate posters frequently don't leaven the negativity with their own perspectives, and the result is flat bread, which nobody wants to eat.

[Han Joelo]

Or try this on for size:

 

I didn't really like the Pelfrey extension, but he seems like a pretty good guy, and competitive (came back early from injury, was upset he didn't win the starter job.)  Maybe he'll build enough value to be trade bait when Meyer is ready.

 

I don't think Schafer or Robinson are all that great, but I didn't think Fuld was either, and look what he brought back in trade.  Plus, he's playing a key part for the vaunted Billy Beane, so there's that.  Plus, I'm hopeful the reason the FO wasn't more aggressive finding a CFer was that they felt Buxton will be ready this year.

 

On the other hand…I wish the FO would've signed Brandon McCarthy instead of Phil Hughes I mean Ricky Nolasco.

[PseudoSABR]

 

So positive posters can post the same rainbows and sunshine in every thread but the skrptics can't do the same?

Vegas has the Twins winning 68.5 games, that's 42%. Why should there be a 50/50 split on optimism vs odds makers supported realism? There are so many reasons to be down about the season. I want to be excited, most of us do, but here we are with a suspended free agent half of us didn't want killing payroll and the rotation, and a roster full of retreads instead of young kids who we could at least dream of projecting a bright future upon. The front office isn't giving us what we want, if they continue to fail to payoff, why can't they be held accountable?

1) No one is doing that.  No one is posting about rainbows, which should tell you something.  There was a post that linked to an article predicting Mauer to win the batting title.  The very first post said it was laughable.  The raincloud makers are poised to roll over any rainbows should they emerge.

2) Rainbows are dumb; but so is adding a dig about the Front Office in unrelated (or tangentially-related) thread; not all of us feel the same about it; and the exasperation some posters have about the FO is gratingly arrogant

3) Just stop justifying the negativity.  We get it.  No one in this thread is myopic to the negative aspects of the FO decision making.  We get it; we really do.  The problem is that every negative outcome (May being sent down; Santana's suspension; etc.) is used to trumpet that justification.  And these justifications are taken as objective, as opposed to just an opinion, which is what they are. 

[dxpavelka]

 

I used to read only the strib pages and the negativity was just depressing.   I found myself defending positions and players and coaches not because I thought they were good or great but because the criticism was so over the top.   Besides which the bandwagon and hindsight was just sickening.    If you look in the archives you would have found 99% of their readers demanding Mauer's contract be extended and later that Hicks be given the job in center after a good spring training.    Two years later 99% of the posters were calling the Twins morons for extending Mauer's contract and for promoting Hicks too soon..    I came to TD because I wanted a different mood and have been happy to have found it.     There is much more debate and consideration on these pages.    it did get negative with the recent cuts  and did see some of the Trib type comments but I get it    By and large  there was legitimate reasons for it even if I didn't agree with all of it.     I get jay's comments because I have seen mob mentality with negativity where it starts getting contagious.   I have had teammates that were just fine that became very negative and critical when that type of person joined the team and it was just depressing how it snowballed.     Likewise with forums such as these. 

WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS??!

 

[MileHighTwinsFan]

I think criticizing the Twins front office right now is the equivalent of my daughter deciding she doesn't like Chinese food before she ever tries it. You may not like what it looks like on the plate, but you shouldn't pass judgement until you give it a try.

 

If I am a first time big league manager, I don't want to both establish a managing strategy and bring along young unproven talent at the same time. I think the decisions made make perfect sense. You take veteran major leaguers and establish your game strategy, allow the young players to get more seasoned and gradually introduce them to your strategy.

 

No one expects this team to compete this year, so I think we should all sit back and watch the Molitor era unfold. I for one can't wait.