Article: Twins Make Cuts, Name Starters

[nicksaviking]

I'm guessing you're trying to indict me for something that I never said, but you conveniently omitted the entire context of my post, which put the stats into proper perspective.  I'm not a fan at all of ST stats, but Molitor's defense of the "Milone Minimalization" decision was simply ludicrous, and both conveniently and plenty refutable in three little stat lines.

I think he was agreeing with you using thinly veiled sarcasm.

[zchrz]

 

I'm fine with Hicks going down but don't get Milone. Other than being left handed, what does he bring to the table?

This is just me but I'd rather bring north the guy who doesn't get into jams rather than the one who has to consistently battle to get out of them. But that's just me I'm sure....

 

Problem is May and Pelfry haven't really shown a propensity to avoid jams or get out of them.  I would have rather they gone with May but Milone can be a more than serviceable 5th starter, and maybe can even build up a little trade value for when May/ Meyer force their way to the MLB.

[tobi0040]

Keep trying, you didn't get it straight yet.

Which part did I miss? Hicks was accountable and pelfrey acted like the last two years didn't happen. What are the twins supposed to say to pelfrey? You will make the team is 3 guys get hurt?

 

I guess I don't buy "open competition" being the same as lowest era in 10 innings wins the job.

[jimmer]

 

Which part did I miss? Hicks was accountable and pelfrey acted like the last two years didn't happen. What are the twins supposed to say to pelfrey? You will make the team is 3 guys get hurt?

I guess I don't buy "open competition" being the same as lowest era in 10 innings wins the job.

Maybe after Ryan re-signed him for two years and more money after the kind of year he had with us his first year, he felt his spot was pretty secure.  That was an interesting precedent set by Ryan.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I have to break my silence and make my first post after reading this article.

 

I'll start by saying that I believe Trevor May and Aaron Hicks should have made the team based on their current talent and their future contributions to this team. We all know that Tommy Milone and Shane Robinson are in the range of bad and mediocre at best, and they have little to no chance at becoming anything of value for the Twins in the future.

 

What a joke.

not that I am a fan of how these races shook out, but if no one "won" the position, do you put in a rookie who isn't ready or a veteran who can't get any worse. I hope that Trevor May, Alex Meyer, Aaron Hicks and Eddie Rosario all earn their way onto the big league roster this season.

 

Disappointed? Sure. Surprised? No. Maybe Milone and Robinson/Schafer will earn enough value to be trade bait.

 

It's a long season, this isn't even the beginning yet

[DocBauer]

The good:  Milone has some track record of success and didn't stink during ST. Now, that's not a ringing endorsement, but it is factual. Personally, I thought May was the guy to beat, but he was slowed by his early illness. It would seem there is time for everyone to get one more start in. Why make the announcement/decision now when all parties could audition that one more time? But three years ago, two year ago, possibly even last year, a guy like Milone  as our 5th starter would have made us feel pretty good. And honestly, I don't feel that this is going to be anything remotely permanent.

 

For the most part, I'm not upset about no Rosario, no Buxton, no Sano and no Polanco. Did anyone really think they were going to...more or less...bypass AA ball and jump to the Twins lineup during ST? The offense was much improved last season. There is a real possibility it could be even better this season with Dozier and Santana possibly even better, a whole season from Vargas, a return to form (or near it) from Mauer, etc.

 

Santana is a quality pitcher. Healthy, he's 200 IP and 13-14 wins that you can almost write down in ink. His track record also shows very clearly that with a team playing solid all around baseball, he has the ability to rise and be a 15-17 game winner. He's done it before. And the kicker is, Gibson might just be the Twins second best starter when all is said and done. Don't hate Nolasco. Be happy he's back healthy and looking OK. One reason is he really is a solid career ML starter who is our #4 guy for goodness sake. We used to sign guys like him, or lesser, to lead this staff. (Correia anyone?) Secondly, the better he does, the greater value for trade bait later in the season.

 

Be disappointed, if you will, that 6 or 7 rookies didn't make the Twins out of ST. Or realize that we just might score some runs, and have the best rotation we've had in YEARS, with a large group of talented youngsters oh so very close.

[jimmer]

 

 

 

 

Be disappointed, if you will, that 6 or 7 rookies didn't make the Twins out of ST. Or realize that we just might score some runs, and have the best rotation we've had in YEARS, with a large group of talented youngsters oh so very close.

I don't think too many people expected or are disappointed that 6 or 7 rookies didn't make the Twins out of ST.  I think some, myself included, are disappointed that NONE of our touted guys did.

 

As far as having the best rotations we've had in YEARS, the barometer isn't exactly high now is it? And many said the same thing last offseason.

Edited March 29, 2015 by jimmer

[DocBauer]

The bad: Flip flopping a bit on my earlier statement...why wouldn't you let Milone and May each start one more game before making a decision. Is someone holding a loaded pitching machine to Molitor or Ryan's head? What if Milone was "meh" and May was something close to lights out? 

 

On the surface, at first glance, I am not upset in the slightest that Hicks and Rosario are sent down. Rosario is a potential stud, but had only half of a disappointing season last year. A strong AFL and good start in ST does not necessitate a rush to a ML job that a month or two or three in the minors will probably make him better prepared for. Do we want another repeat of the Hicks situation?  And speaking of Hicks, I'd say at least half the community, if not closer to 75%, have been in favor of, or not disliked, the idea of Hicks getting some AAA time to hone his game, build confidence,and get back on track before his career goes totally off rail.

 

No, I'm not surprised, disappointed or angry about those demotions at all. BUT, I am pretty PO'ed that the final result is Schafer and...what's his name again?...oh yeah, Robinson in CF. What was Robinson for the Cardinals last season, their 5th OF? 6th? Seriously, I'm not even sure. And now he's the Twins semi-platoon CF/4th OF option. After the debacles of the past 2 off seasons/seasons this is the best we can come up with?

 

I have hope for this team, and don't dislike most of it. But I am hoping and crossing just about anything I can that there is a very smart plan happening here where the Twins cook and percolate May, Meyer, Rosario, Buxton, Sano and others for a little while before moving Nolasco, Milone, Pelfrey and a couple others. If Robinson and a couple of these guys really are just place holders, then OK, I get it. If not.....shame on the Twins.

[Kwak]

 

Maybe after Ryan re-signed him for two years and more money after the kind of year he had with us his first year, he felt his spot was pretty secure.  That was an interesting precedent set by Ryan.

I wish I had been paid $5.5MM/year with the precondition that I would get demoted.

[Blake]

I honestly don't get the Hicks situation. I thought it was pretty obvious that if the bats aren't quite there, then you bring the best defensive outfielders north.

 

I seem to recall Hicks hits lefties pretty well and Schafer is/was good against righties.

 

Granted,it doesn't get Hicks the at bats, but, at some point, you need people in the field that can catch the ball.

 

Of course, since I'm going from memory/impression, I could be way off.

 

A platoon may not be ideal, but, look at KC and the platoon outfield they used that almost won the Series

[Thrylos]

 

I honestly don't get the Hicks situation. I thought it was pretty obvious that if the bats aren't quite there, then you bring the best defensive outfielders north.

From that bunch, Robinson is the best defensive outfielder. 

Edited March 29, 2015 by Thrylos

[Mike Sixel]

The future that never comes......nice trades of Span and Revere so far.....three years in, and nothing to show other than negative contributions.

[stringer bell]

The right handed half of a platoon is basically a bench player. Putting Hicks in that role pretty much assigns him to that status. It could end his development well below what was perceived to be his ceiling. We don't know if he could handle a part-time role and he's only played a few innings in right and left. Shane Robinson is the best defensive outfielder that competed for a position and he has been in a backup role. He is a good fit for the platoon CF/fourth outfielder role.

[jokin]

 

I honestly don't get the Hicks situation. I thought it was pretty obvious that if the bats aren't quite there, then you bring the best defensive outfielders north.

 

I seem to recall Hicks hits lefties pretty well and Schafer is/was good against righties.

 

Granted,it doesn't get Hicks the at bats, but, at some point, you need people in the field that can catch the ball.

 

Of course, since I'm going from memory/impression, I could be way off.

 

A platoon may not be ideal, but, look at KC and the platoon outfield they used that almost won the Series

 

There actually was a bigger dilemma than who plays in CF-  and that's the overall OF defense.  By all accounts, (as expected), Arcia has struggled in his transition to LF, and Torii is soon 40.  Shane Robinson isn't much of a major league hitter, but there's no question that he is a major league outfielder. Hicks is still a work in progress and didn't rise to the opportunity right in front of him this spring-  for now, he should still be playing every day in AAA, if at the very worst, only to preserve whatever perceived value he still retains.

[jokin]

 

The right handed half of a platoon is basically a bench player. Putting Hicks in that role pretty much assigns him to that status. It could end his development well below what was perceived to be his ceiling. We don't know if he could handle a part-time role and he's only played a few innings in right and left. Shane Robinson is the best defensive outfielder that competed for a position and he has been in a backup role. He is a good fit for the platoon CF/fourth outfielder role.

 

Sorry Stringer.  Typing and watching NCAA while you had essentially already posted what I just did.

Edited March 29, 2015 by jokin

[ronald kuehl]

"The decision did not sit well with Pelfrey as he told reporters that he would be open to a trade if it would lead to a spot in a rotation."

 

Mike - we'd gladly trade you for an empty paper bag...and we'd probably even kick in a couple million bucks.  But, alas, no one would take your $5mm contract.

 

Let's not forget 2014.  There were 116 AL starting pitchers who had 5 starts and over 20 innings pitched.  Your stats and rankings, Mike:

ERA 7.99 (116th, last)

xFIP 7.57 (116th, last, the 115th ranked guy, was 6.9)

K/BB 0.6 (116th, you walked 18 guys and K'ed 10)

WAR -0.7 (116th)

 

So your 14 good innings are supposed to make us all forget how awful you are? 

 

If 2014 was an anomaly because of injury, how do you explain your 2013: ERA 5.2 (ranked 85th of 115 AL starters)?

 

You had a good spring training last year too (3.6 ERA over 18 innings).  How'd your 2014 season go?

 

You are what we call in baseball "a bum".  I'm glad the team could see past your $5mm salary and it's sunk cost. 

 

PS - I have no love for Milone but either of these guys feeling like they "earned" a starting slot in Major League Baseball is a joke.   

[jimmer]

Let's not forget who though signing Pelfrey in the first place was a good idea much less re-signing him for two years at an even larger salary (though not large in the grand scheme of things overall).

[jokin]

 

listening to the game today the announcers are in midseason form.  defending the milone selection, talking about how walks allowed is the worst thing ever, talking about no pitch counts in Bert's pitching days, etc.

 

So you're saying that the boys are taking a fresh approach in their analysis....?

[h2oface]

 

So with no Hicks, no Rosario, and no Buxton on the 25 man roster, what's the point of having Torii under contract again?  It's hard to mentor people who are several states away.

 Exactly. Beat me to it.

[h2oface]

 

Let's not forget who thought signing Pelfrey in the first place was a good idea much less re-signing him for two years at an even larger salary (though not large in the grand scheme of things overall).

The genius of Terry Ryan. And he continues to keep his job.

 

"Nunnie"??? I threw up on that one. More of the same. What Molitor said about Milone is very depressing. I thought Paulie would be different. 

[Blake]

thrylos, jokin, thanks for the answer.

 

After watching KC's outfield in playoffs and series, it's going to be tough to watch the Twins outfield this year.

 

I'm expecting a long year.

 

Sigh.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The genius of Terry Ryan. And he continues to keep his job.

 

"Nunnie"??? I threw up on that one. More of the same. What Molitor said about Milone is very depressing. I thought Paulie would be different.

 

I'm not a Ryan fan either.

[Paul Pleiss]

Tommy Milone doesn't even wear high socks or stirrups. What a bum. I cannot stand by that decision.

 

or the decision to roster Eduardo Nunez.

 

Or most of everything else that happened over the weekend. Except for maybe Hicks to AAA. I get that. I hope he figures it out and has a successful return to MLB.

[Jham]

Some were very critical of Gardy for playing favorites, but he was at least dogged in asking the FO for more talent.  He voiced on numerous occasions his desire to have Gibson, Meyer, and May called up.  He publicly disagreed with the FO on the Santana displacing Escobar debate.  Molitors first few moves as manager: Santana to short, and Meyer/May back to AAA.  

 

I can't say I'm offended by anything that happened regarding the cuts provided they are short term.  Hey, if Theo Epstein says he's never had a rookie break with the team, then I'm ok with our studs taking a month to get into a grove before coming up, hopefully with some confidence.  If Kris Bryant isn't coming north, should Eddie Rosario?

 

I would guess Rosario will be the first call up, as soon as he's ready.  Molitor's hinted at as much.  Hamburger will be added back as soon as Boyer fails or Pelfrey is traded.  May will be up if he can show he's ready and Milone stumbles.  It's still a competition, but eventually the season starts and you have to choose a guy.  Meyer is the perfect candidate to get some experience in the pen before preparing to start next year.  If we get to mid-June and most of this has taken place, I think most of those complaining will be satisfied, and I believe that is the teams ultimate hope.

[Reider]

Considering Span and Revere got traded and Torii Hunter isn't 25 anymore, it's safe to say that center field is a work in progress. I think the Twins are hoping that one of their young guys will step up and take the job, eventually. Don't panic.

 

Nunez is okay, but I am not a very big fan of his. I hope he plays awesome when he gets the opportunity and makes me into a believer.

 

Santana is a stud @ SS and Escobar is a good player in his own right.

 

On one hand, I understand Pelfrey's point of view. If he believes he earned a spot in the starting rotation by out-pitching the competition, then he has a right to be disappointed and I have no problem with that. On the other hand life must be really tough for him, living the dream pitching in the MLB and having to worry about how he's going to spend all of that $. All he has to do is keep working hard, pitch to the best of his ability, and everything will work out in the end.

 

For the ones wondering how Hunter is going to mentor the young guys, while being many miles away, the easy answer is that he is not. However, he just spent a month with them in spring training and some of the young guys will be up at some point this year. Also, I imagine that Hunter will likely stay in contact with some of them (or vice versa) throughout the season.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Reider

[Paul Pleiss]

Santana, I imagine, will not prove to be a stud at SS. I just don't think he's that guy. He's a place holder until he loses a step and Polanco or even Eduardo Escobar force him out of there.

[Jerr]

As has been pointed out: who is Hunter going to mentor? I can see his attitude helping the team in general, but I thought he would be a great influence on Hicks.

Pelfrey being upset is fine, shows he has some desire, but no way did he earn a starting rotation spot.

[Reider]

 

Santana, I imagine, will not prove to be a stud at SS. I just don't think he's that guy. He's a place holder until he loses a step and Polanco or even Eduardo Escobar force him out of there.

That can be said about any starting player. They are the guy until they are no longer the guy. I just like Santana as a baseball player. He's pretty good. I hope we have good young prospects that can win jobs over our current starters because losing is never as fun as winning. I'm all for improving the team.

[notoriousgod71]

 

I thought Paulie would be different. 

 

 

I didn't. It's the reason he was given the job in the first place.

[Linus]

 

I didn't. It's the reason he was given the job in the first place.

Perhaps we should wait until the first pitch is thrown before we assess the ability of our new manager.